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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 11, 2017 9:56:02 GMT
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pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
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Post by pk9 on Aug 11, 2017 18:12:18 GMT
The article misses several key mistakes.
- Lannister scouting, which was picked up in the comments.
- Dany not using enfilade in her first attack on the Lannisters
- Dany flying Drogon directly down the line of the sight of the scorpion at the end, which is what allowed the "lucky" shot.
- and of course, the big one: Olenna Tyrell not summoning her bannermen IMMEDIATELY upon declaring war on the Lannisters. Especially Randyll Tarly, who's supposed to be one of the best tactical generals in the seven kingdoms. There's no way Tarly should have been able to go to KL in public to meet with Cersei and Jaime. Either Tarly commits to the Tyrells (after all, Cersei murdered their Lords Mace, Loras and Margaery), or he refuses the summons which puts Olenna on notice, or he gets recruited secretly and there's a sudden betrayal like with the Boltons. No matter what, the Tarly army should never have been marching openly with the Lannisters against the Tyrells.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 11, 2017 18:22:17 GMT
The article misses several key mistakes. - Lannister scouting, which was picked up in the comments. - Dany not using enfilade in her first attack on the Lannisters - Dany flying Drogon directly down the line of the sight of the scorpion at the end, which is what allowed the "lucky" shot. - and of course, the big one: Olenna Tyrell not summoning her bannermen IMMEDIATELY upon declaring war on the Lannisters. Especially Randyll Tarly, who's supposed to be one of the best tactical generals in the seven kingdoms. There's no way Tarly should have been able to go to KL in public to meet with Cersei and Jaime. Either Tarly commits to the Tyrells (after all, Cersei murdered their Lords Mace, Loras and Margaery), or he refuses the summons which puts Olenna on notice, or he gets recruited secretly and there's a sudden betrayal like with the Boltons. No matter what, the Tarly army should never have been marching openly with the Lannisters against the Tyrells. I hate to say it but all of this is left unaddressed for the sake of the plot. The biggest plot hole of all (also mentioned in the article) is Euron's magically summoned fleet. Built overnight with no provisions whatsoever. |
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PnkELee
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@pnkelee
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Post by PnkELee on Aug 12, 2017 2:12:21 GMT
- and of course, the big one: Olenna Tyrell not summoning her bannermen IMMEDIATELY upon declaring war on the Lannisters. Especially Randyll Tarly, who's supposed to be one of the best tactical generals in the seven kingdoms. There's no way Tarly should have been able to go to KL in public to meet with Cersei and Jaime. Either Tarly commits to the Tyrells (after all, Cersei murdered their Lords Mace, Loras and Margaery), or he refuses the summons which puts Olenna on notice, or he gets recruited secretly and there's a sudden betrayal like with the Boltons. No matter what, the Tarly army should never have been marching openly with the Lannisters against the Tyrells. [/quote]
Thank you. Thought i was the only one not buying the whole Tarly siding with the lannisters or attacking Olenna bit.
To piggyback: No way would Olenna not pull Tarly into the fold. For one, hes the best commander in the kingdom. Secondly, he's *her* general. Thirdly, he's her muscle. Fourthly, (lol)and most importantly, ensuring that a powerful bannerman remain beyond outsider influence is paramount. Especially, when that bannerman is stronger than their liege. (The Tyrells shouldve undercut the Tarlys power a long time ago)
This course of action was completely out of character for Olenna. It was something that Cersei would do. It's not Tyrions fault that the show wants make him look incompetent to throw cersei a bone, either.
Anyway, Olennas misstep was more characteristic of cersei. Cerseis not stupid but she has never been a strong critical thinker. She doesnt have a lot of common sense or foresight so she would make an error like this. Not Olenna.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 12, 2017 3:04:00 GMT
pk9I'm not sure that was the goal. I think Dany specifically wanted to show the military strength she had which would include her army being able to wipe them out too...& the Dothraki would have wiped them out without the dragon. I think it was a bad idea to destroy the supplies since the Lannister army was largely crispy crittered, her army could have used them. I don't know if I would call it a lucky shot. I thought the Scorpion rotated 360 degrees and could change angles and he was aiming it at a passenger jet that still managed to dodge a head shot while heading straight for the arrow.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 12, 2017 5:02:39 GMT
pk9 I'm not sure that was the goal. I think Dany specifically wanted to show the military strength she had which would include her army being able to wipe them out too...& the Dothraki would have wiped them out without the dragon. I think it was a bad idea to destroy the supplies since the Lannister army was largely crispy crittered, her army could have used them. The attack was tactical nonsense. The dragon could have attacked first, forcing soldiers to take cover, then Dothraki could have simply stolen the whole thing without taking any casualties. It would have been smart, effective and lighter on body count but not as spectacular. Daenerys comes out of it as a murdering moron again but her fans don't see it. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 12, 2017 10:13:31 GMT
pk9 I'm not sure that was the goal. I think Dany specifically wanted to show the military strength she had which would include her army being able to wipe them out too...& the Dothraki would have wiped them out without the dragon. I think it was a bad idea to destroy the supplies since the Lannister army was largely crispy crittered, her army could have used them. The attack was tactical nonsense. The dragon could have attacked first, forcing soldiers to take cover, then Dothraki could have simply stolen the whole thing without taking any casualties. It would have been smart, effective and lighter on body count but not as spectacular. Daenerys comes out of it as a murdering moron again but her fans don't see it. Lol |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 13, 2017 10:21:13 GMT
After glorifying Tyrion as an intelligent man for past seasons they have now portrayed him as one of the biggest fools on the show. He should stop making military strategies for his queen and just concentrate on diplomatic relationships. In any case his image has taken a serious beating this season as he has been pretty unimpressive. Might change soon though when he gets chance to negotiate with Lannisters. Lord Varys likewise has been a shadow of himself this season and in fact even last season. Sansa's image has appreciated considerably in the meanwhile. Cersei has come across as more intelligent and Bronn is becoming more a knight than a sellsword |
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 13, 2017 14:10:05 GMT
pk9 I'm not sure that was the goal. I think Dany specifically wanted to show the military strength she had which would include her army being able to wipe them out too...& the Dothraki would have wiped them out without the dragon. I think it was a bad idea to destroy the supplies since the Lannister army was largely crispy crittered, her army could have used them. The attack was tactical nonsense. The dragon could have attacked first, forcing soldiers to take cover, then Dothraki could have simply stolen the whole thing without taking any casualties. It would have been smart, effective and lighter on body count but not as spectacular. Daenerys comes out of it as a murdering moron again but her fans don't see it. It's tactical smarts to leave an army alive to fight another day? |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2017 14:12:48 GMT
The attack was tactical nonsense. The dragon could have attacked first, forcing soldiers to take cover, then Dothraki could have simply stolen the whole thing without taking any casualties. It would have been smart, effective and lighter on body count but not as spectacular. Daenerys comes out of it as a murdering moron again but her fans don't see it. It's tactical smarts to leave an army alive to fight another day? How badly do you think these want to fight another day? She's an idiot. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 13, 2017 14:21:28 GMT
After glorifying Tyrion as an intelligent man for past seasons they have now portrayed him as one of the biggest fools on the show. He should stop making military strategies for his queen and just concentrate on diplomatic relationships. In any case his image has taken a serious beating this season as he has been pretty unimpressive. Might change soon though when he gets chance to negotiate with Lannisters. Lord Varys likewise has been a shadow of himself this season and in fact even last season. Sansa's image has appreciated considerably in the meanwhile. Cersei has come across as more intelligent and Bronn is becoming more a knight than a sellsword I'm not sure Tyrion has been viewed as that since season 2 and definitely by season 4. I actually like Tyrion's struggles with being Dany's Hand. He has great strategic wisdom that should always be listened to but taken with a grain of salt It would make little sense that he would be able to completely turn away from his love for Westeros & Jaime (the book creates an actual break between him and Jaime which was the exact opposite of the way the show handles it) just because he is loyal to Dany. I totally get why he wanted as little bloodshed as possible, but the little amount of bloodshed could have occurred during a siege of the Red Keep. that's the great thing about the castle being on the edge of King's landing instead of the middle of it. the battle was counter to how smart he is though since it was designed specifically to to get to the awesomeness of episode 4. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 13, 2017 14:22:42 GMT
It's tactical smarts to leave an army alive to fight another day? How badly do you think these want to fight another day? She's an idiot. The Dothraki like to fight so there wasn't really an issue. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2017 14:26:01 GMT
How badly do you think these want to fight another day? She's an idiot. The Dothraki like to fight so there wasn't really an issue. Weren't they supposed to do what she says? Did someone lie to us? |
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 13, 2017 16:35:07 GMT
It's tactical smarts to leave an army alive to fight another day? How badly do you think these want to fight another day? She's an idiot. As if they'll have a choice if they return to KL? If you're going to war people die. It's 101 man, you letting your hatred of Dany blind you to that? |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2017 16:40:57 GMT
How badly do you think these want to fight another day? She's an idiot. As if they'll have a choice if they return to KL? If you're going to war people die. It's 101 man, you letting your hatred of Dany blind you to that? This was just the rear-guard of the army. Her best move now is to set them free with the offer to accept anyone's surrender in the future. They can tell others what they've seen and propagate the offer. The hate is justified, believe me. |
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 13, 2017 16:52:37 GMT
As if they'll have a choice if they return to KL? If you're going to war people die. It's 101 man, you letting your hatred of Dany blind you to that? This was just the rear-guard of the army. Her best move now is to set them free with the offer to accept anyone's surrender in the future. They can tell others what they've seen and propagate the offer. The hate is justified, believe me. Nope, I don't trust anyone who says 'believe me'. No they gotta go. Looks like this week she's accepting surrender but not letting them go home which is the right move. I'm not for trusting the enemy to fight for me but eh, that's just me. I say kill them all. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2017 17:08:40 GMT
This was just the rear-guard of the army. Her best move now is to set them free with the offer to accept anyone's surrender in the future. They can tell others what they've seen and propagate the offer. The hate is justified, believe me. Nope, I don't trust anyone who says 'believe me'. No they gotta go. Looks like this week she's accepting surrender but not letting them go home which is the right move. I'm not for trusting the enemy to fight for me but eh, that's just me. I say kill them all. Yes, kill them all. That makes you another murdering bitch in addition to an idiot who won't inderstand that informing the rest of the army of what happened is the best weapon. I'm done showing respect to you then. |
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 13, 2017 18:09:44 GMT
Nope, I don't trust anyone who says 'believe me'. No they gotta go. Looks like this week she's accepting surrender but not letting them go home which is the right move. I'm not for trusting the enemy to fight for me but eh, that's just me. I say kill them all. Yes, kill them all. That makes you another murdering bitch in addition to an idiot who won't inderstand that informing the rest of the army of what happened is the best weapon. I'm done showing respect to you then. Look here buddy, we've been respectfully disagreeing on certain aspects of a tv show thus far so for you to refer to me as a bitch and idiot is 100% out of line. Completely uncalled for. So fuck you and kiss the center of my ass. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2017 18:13:26 GMT
Yes, kill them all. That makes you another murdering bitch in addition to an idiot who won't inderstand that informing the rest of the army of what happened is the best weapon. I'm done showing respect to you then. Look here buddy, we've been respectfully disagreeing on certain aspects of a tv show thus far so for you to refer to me as a bitch and idiot is 100% out of line. Completely uncalled for. So fuck you and kiss the center of my ass. Stupidity is not a matter of manners. It cannot be redeemed. You're gone. |
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 13, 2017 18:30:47 GMT
Look here buddy, we've been respectfully disagreeing on certain aspects of a tv show thus far so for you to refer to me as a bitch and idiot is 100% out of line. Completely uncalled for. So fuck you and kiss the center of my ass. Stupidity is not a matter of manners. It cannot be redeemed. You're gone. And you've demonstrated both stupidly and lack of manners. |
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