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Post by kevin on Aug 21, 2017 5:43:20 GMT
Great episode. It has some minor flaws: the fact that Benjen didn't need to die and the very short time between the raven and Dany's arrival, but I enjoyed the episode very much. I never really cared that much about IGN's opinion, but I don't understand why this would be the episode to break their streak of high GoT grades. It's not the best penultimate episode of the series, but I still think this is the second or third best episode of this season and definitely a 9/10. Maisie Williams was very good as Arya this episode. She was genuinely creepy and really nailed the psychopath behaviour. I do feel some moments this season are a bit rushed and even though I don't want filler-episodes, I think this season could've worked with 10 episodes. We could've had a seperate episode for the battle of Highgarden and/or Casterly Rock. I think that the budget just isn't big enough to have another big battle episode. I think if the final episode is amazing this will be my 3rd (maybe 4th) favorite season, but I also think that season 8 has the potential to be the best season of them all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 5:51:09 GMT
Great episode. It has some minor flaws: the fact that Benjen didn't need to die and the very short time between the raven and Dany's arrival, but I enjoyed the episode very much. I never really cared that much about IGN's opinion, but I don't understand why this would be the episode to break their streak of high GoT grades. It's not the best penultimate episode of the series, but I still think this is the second or third best episode of this season and definitely a 9/10. Maisie Williams was very good as Arya this episode. She was genuinely creepy and really nailed the psychopath behaviour. I do feel some moments this season are a bit rushed and even though I don't want filler-episodes, I think this season could've worked with 10 episodes. We could've had a seperate episode for the battle of Highgarden and/or Casterly Rock. I think that the budget just isn't big enough to have another big battle episode. I think if the final episode is amazing this will be my 3rd (maybe 4th) favorite season, but I also think that season 8 has the potential to be the best season of them all. What is your top 3 Thrones seasons?
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Post by kevin on Aug 21, 2017 5:54:54 GMT
Great episode. It has some minor flaws: the fact that Benjen didn't need to die and the very short time between the raven and Dany's arrival, but I enjoyed the episode very much. I never really cared that much about IGN's opinion, but I don't understand why this would be the episode to break their streak of high GoT grades. It's not the best penultimate episode of the series, but I still think this is the second or third best episode of this season and definitely a 9/10. Maisie Williams was very good as Arya this episode. She was genuinely creepy and really nailed the psychopath behaviour. I do feel some moments this season are a bit rushed and even though I don't want filler-episodes, I think this season could've worked with 10 episodes. We could've had a seperate episode for the battle of Highgarden and/or Casterly Rock. I think that the budget just isn't big enough to have another big battle episode. I think if the final episode is amazing this will be my 3rd (maybe 4th) favorite season, but I also think that season 8 has the potential to be the best season of them all. What is your top 3 Thrones seasons? 1. Season 4 2. Season 6 3. Season 3 And the rest: 4. Season 1 5. Season 2 6. Season 5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 5:59:31 GMT
What is your top 3 Thrones seasons? 1. Season 4 2. Season 6 3. Season 3 And the rest: 4. Season 1 5. Season 2 6. Season 5 I have the exact same ranking as you. So far I've enjoyed season 7 as much as season 6.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 21, 2017 6:01:19 GMT
Benjen's unnecessary death appears to have been gratuitous drama, well in line with the habit of killing off unnecessary characters for body count effect rather than giving them a normal exit. It was done with Barristan, Hizdahr, Osha, the Blackfish and probably others. Yea, they've been pulling shit like this for a while, but Benjen's unnecessary death was particularly stupid. He didn't even need to jump off the horse at all... It was just silly. Had he just taken an axe to the head in fighting, no one would complain. Cheap drama just irritates those who see it.
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Post by kevin on Aug 21, 2017 8:01:22 GMT
The episode is a bit more divisive with critics than the usual episode 9. Some are calling it one of the best episodes ever and some call it one of the worst GoT episodes so far. A few examples:
Positive Empire - 5/5 "Beyond The Wall delivered on some of the iconic moments that we've all been waiting for since the series' inception." Time - Rave review "Game of Thrones ratchets up the stakes in a monumental episode." Den of Geek - 5/5 "The penultimate episode of the penultimate season for Game of Thrones shakes us to our core and changes the game." TVFanatic - 5/5 "It was a breathtaking episode, which set the wheels in motion for what is sure to be a thrilling close to Game of Thrones Season 7."
Mixed/negative IGN - 6.9/10 "While it did include some solid character moments and interesting exchanges, this week's episode didn't meet the same heights of similarly epic installments this season because of its expedited pacing." Slant Magazine - Negative review "The episode offers up a battle between CGI dragons and CGI zombies, to pulpy effect but no moral consequence." Forbes - Negative review "Beyond the Wall is a rush job of poorly formulated ideas and shaky writing."
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 21, 2017 11:06:34 GMT
My feelings about the episode were mixed.
The battles were awesome.
Loved the bear attack. I always thought it would be neat to see since reading the books.
A dragon dying was sad but expected.
The dialogue was not great this time and I hated the development in Winterfell. Hopefully it is temporary as a setup to Littlefinger being gone who has only been annoying this season. Otherwise, it's goofy.
Truly despise the travel times now.
Someone brought up how a zombie dragon could destroy the Wall. Still not sure how that happens, but I do think it should be easy enough for it to get past.
Hate incest so hate the Jon/Dany relationship developing. I know they don't know, but I do (Yet another reason the Tower of Joy season last season was unnecessary.). My only hope is that the is a Back to the Future moment where they realize it's icky. Doubtful since fan fiction demands they hook up and ride dragons together...
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 21, 2017 11:41:13 GMT
www.gamespot.com/articles/game-of-thrones-has-truly-stopped-making-sense/1100-6452687/I pretty much agree with this article outside of the part about what makes someone a wright. Dude seems to think it's by infection although Hardhome showed quite clearly how someone becomes a zombie and it;'s specifically referenced in this episode. I also don't think that a show that can choreograph a battle with a zombie polar bear and battles between zombies and dragons is actually capable of being described as a poor replacement. It is living up to the visuals I imagine in the books outside of the godawful castles. It's also harder for me because I despise most of the fan theories. That said, I would be very surprised at this point if Martin is directly providing them information regarding the books and the producers are just playing along with what fans theorize since most of the TV watchers have not read the books at all. It's a tail wagging the dog scenario
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 21, 2017 11:57:22 GMT
Benjen's unnecessary death appears to have been gratuitous drama, well in line with the habit of killing off unnecessary characters for body count effect rather than giving them a normal exit. It was done with Barristan, Hizdahr, Osha, the Blackfish and probably others. It was as if they had Jon stay behind just so they could tie off the dangling thread of Benjen's story. No reason he couldn't have shown up earlier in the fight if they wanted to do that. At least it would've made more sense.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 21, 2017 12:04:44 GMT
My feelings about the episode were mixed. The battles were awesome. Loved the bear attack. I always thought it would be neat to see since reading the books. A dragon dying was sad but expected. The dialogue was not great this time and I hated the development in Winterfell. Hopefully it is temporary as a setup to Littlefinger being gone who has only been annoying this season. Otherwise, it's goofy.Truly despise the travel times now. Someone brought up how a zombie dragon could destroy the Wall. Still not sure how that happens, but I do think it should be easy enough for it to get past. Hate incest so hate the Jon/Dany relationship developing. I know they don't know, but I do (Yet another reason the Tower of Joy season last season was unnecessary.). My only hope is that the is a Back to the Future moment where they realize it's icky. Doubtful since fan fiction demands they hook up and ride dragons together... Easily the worst part of the episode. Sansa and Arya are both as stupid as they were in season one all of the sudden, for the sake of manufactured drama. I can't stress enough how ridiculous it is that Jon isn't sending ravens to inform the lords of the North what he's up to. But back to Arya and Sansa. They both have acknowledged on the show that they know Littlefinger is sinister yet they seem to be taking the bait thus far. It's beyond lazy writing at this point.
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Post by Marv on Aug 21, 2017 13:35:08 GMT
Like others...I'm disliking the Arya Sansa stuff, partly because it's making Arya look sinister toward her own sister but also because it doesn't appear like they know they're getting played by Littlefinger. I figured Years of growth would've matured their distaste for one another but scene after scene is just accusations and this awkward passive aggressiveness that I really don't enjoy.
The stuff north of the wall was cool. I actually really enjoyed the traveling banter between all the different characters. With such an eclectic group of people all coming together it was just really fun interactions. The battles themselves were really cool although I honestly wish they ditched most of the red shirt wildlings and had killed off some of the known characters instead. Even Thoros death felt very anticlimactic. Why not just have him get fatally mauled rather than temporary healed only to die sleeping? Would've had more impact the first way. But the dragon was sad even though you saw it coming.
The scenes between Dany and Jon were good.
There are some odd plot holes or inconsistencies here but not enough to ruin it. Just enough to make me wonder why they did things the way they did. Benjen didn't need to die, and if he did then why not have it look more necessary since he didn't slow down the wights at all.
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Post by Marv on Aug 21, 2017 13:37:11 GMT
My feelings about the episode were mixed. The battles were awesome. Loved the bear attack. I always thought it would be neat to see since reading the books. A dragon dying was sad but expected. The dialogue was not great this time and I hated the development in Winterfell. Hopefully it is temporary as a setup to Littlefinger being gone who has only been annoying this season. Otherwise, it's goofy.Truly despise the travel times now. Someone brought up how a zombie dragon could destroy the Wall. Still not sure how that happens, but I do think it should be easy enough for it to get past. Hate incest so hate the Jon/Dany relationship developing. I know they don't know, but I do (Yet another reason the Tower of Joy season last season was unnecessary.). My only hope is that the is a Back to the Future moment where they realize it's icky. Doubtful since fan fiction demands they hook up and ride dragons together... Easily the worst part of the episode. Sansa and Arya are both as stupid as they were in season one all of the sudden, for the sake of manufactured drama. I can't stress enough how ridiculous it is that Jon isn't sending ravens to inform the lords of the North what he's up to. But back to Arya and Sansa. They both have acknowledged on the show that they know Littlefinger is sinister yet they seem to be taking the bait thus far. It's beyond lazy writing at this point. It mostly seems to stem from Arya which is very aggravating as up until two episodes ago she has been consistently my favorite character. I feel like these recent events have just ruined my opinion of her and that annoys me. Anytime they have a chat I find myself agreeing and siding with Sansa.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 21, 2017 13:47:54 GMT
The North of the Wall stuff was great in the moment although some bits of dialogue it were heavy handed, but the whole plan was insane from the inception.
Either the wights were a fantasy or it was immediately a suicide mission.
There was no middle ground at all. Since Dany wasn't doing anything anyway, why didn't they just have her fly to east watch, without joining the convoy, with them in the first place or a larger contingency?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 21, 2017 14:04:18 GMT
Easily the worst part of the episode. Sansa and Arya are both as stupid as they were in season one all of the sudden, for the sake of manufactured drama. I can't stress enough how ridiculous it is that Jon isn't sending ravens to inform the lords of the North what he's up to. But back to Arya and Sansa. They both have acknowledged on the show that they know Littlefinger is sinister yet they seem to be taking the bait thus far. It's beyond lazy writing at this point. It mostly seems to stem from Arya which is very aggravating as up until two episodes ago she has been consistently my favorite character. I feel like these recent events have just ruined my opinion of her and that annoys me. Anytime they have a chat I find myself agreeing and siding with Sansa. This rift only makes sense if it's a ploy to catch Littlefinger off guard; but even if that's the case, that scene last night doesn't work. Nobody was there to see that conversation, there would be no reason for Arya to behave that way in private. Even if they do turn it on Petyr, this conversation was illogical from a character standpoint. Either Arya was putting on an act for nobody or she really is that stupid and it's up to Sansa to resolve this. Or......it's actually brilliant because it's Arya's way of saying she'll kill Littlefinger if Sansa exposes him first. Sansa can do the political maneuvering to turn the lords against Baelish, then Arya can do the dirty work that is not Sansa's forte. That would be pretty great, though it still begs the question why Arya wouldn't just speak plainly with Sansa behind closed doors. Of course the answer is to build tension, but that can be done without making the characters have nonsensical conversations just to throw the audience off the trail.
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Post by kevin on Aug 21, 2017 14:41:48 GMT
All season 7 episodes ranked on IMDb v2.0
1. The Spoils of War - 8.2 2. Beyond the Wall - 7.9 3. Eastwatch - 7.3 4. Dragonstone - 7.3 5. The Queen's Justice - 7.1 6. Stormborn - 7.1
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Post by pk9 on Aug 21, 2017 18:08:01 GMT
Dany: "I should take the dragons and do some aerial recon and/or harassment attacks on the Lannisters and Euron" Tyrion: "That's too risky." Dany: "Okay, I'll take the dragons directly into battle against the Lannisters and the White Walkers then."
Also...
Jon: "Let me take on the entire Army of the Dead with 12 dudes. YOLT"
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 21, 2017 22:04:05 GMT
Undead dragon!!!!
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Post by bluerisk on Aug 22, 2017 4:19:03 GMT
The North of the Wall stuff was great in the moment although some bits of dialogue it were heavy handed, but the whole plan was insane from the inception. Either the wights were a fantasy or it was immediately a suicide mission. There was no middle ground at all. Since Dany wasn't doing anything anyway, why didn't they just have her fly to east watch, without joining the convoy, with them in the first place or a larger contingency? For what getting a wights anyway - to convince Cercei?! If it is really about survival, they would even accept the collatral damage by taking KIng's Landing by force...as any ruler did. Rober (actually the Lannisters) sacked King's Landing, and yet Robert was loved by the people, or the support of Cercei...after the walk of shame, and she is a Lannister, the house that sacked the city: either there is no support for Cercei, and you can attack, or there is support despite all, and you can attack too for the people will root for the winner/or forget quite soon. But so they risk the lives of some of the most prominent warrior, in the end two leaders (Daenerys and Jon) and lost a dragon what will cause far more suffering and pain than a quick and resolved action against Cercei. They do not even need to attack the entire city (save from sacking it). Dump, dumper, Tyrion since he has become an alcoholic back in Essos.
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Post by Reggie_Stration on Aug 22, 2017 9:02:19 GMT
An episode that had epic moments that was not on the whole, as epic as it should have been, and the sloppy writing played its part.
I was there ready to love the confrontation between Jon's pack and the White Walkers/Wights, I don't want to be thinking in the midst of it "How the hell could Gendry quickly run back that distance they've just covered to the Wall?" And then after that "Holy hell the dragons got here quickly!". The ravens may as well be text messaging at this point, they're so fast. I'm sure they could have written up a scenario where that distance jumping wasn't so jarring. Maybe have had Dany nearer to the location knowing there was a possibility they'd need her help? I mean Jon already knew there was a huge army of dead out there. Maybe also have Benjen meet them prior to Gendry heading back so he could have used the horse, and Benjen could have stuck around longer, instead of Benjen deus ex-machina-ing his way into a scene (again!) and die off after about a word's exchange with Jon, after all this time of Jon wanting and hoping to see him.
It's like the writers were so focused on establishing a way for the Night's King to have a realistic way to get over the Wall i.e. the now converted dragon, that they dropped the ball on the rest. Even the little things like Dany turning up without the appropriate clothing for cold weather, and the red shirts in Jon's group dying off. I was confused as to who was dying off because we didn't even get to see who the red shirts were. And there appeared to be no zombie giants. Where were they?
Despite the need to move the plot along as we near the finale, the pace hasn't really been a problem so far in this season, but this episode felt like it was a bit rushed. I haven't even talked about the Arya and Sansa scenes either and I agree with others on how out of character they felt.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 22, 2017 9:11:46 GMT
I was there ready to love the confrontation between Jon's pack and the White Walkers/Wights, I don't want to be thinking in the midst of it "How the hell could Gendry quickly run back that distance they've just covered to the Wall?" And then after that "Holy hell the dragons got here quickly!". The ravens may as well be text messaging at this point, they're so fast. It's like the writers were so focused on establishing a way for the Night's King to have a realistic way to get over the Wall i.e. the now converted dragon, that they dropped the ball on the rest. Even the little things like Dany turning up without the appropriate clothing for cold weather, and the red shirts in Jon's group dying off. Daenerys was wearing Ghost's pelt. It is appropriate for winter.
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