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Post by hitchcockthelegend on Jan 4, 2019 9:33:44 GMT
Saffers 152 for 4 now...
Collapse on to keep Pak in the game?
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 4, 2019 16:52:55 GMT
Saffers 152 for 4 now...
Collapse on to keep Pak in the game? Well, Faf Du Plessis stepped up his game this time around. Pakistan has a reputation of entertaining people with sudden change in performance but outside of home (Asia) those sudden changes or famous collapses have been more about Pakistan's failure than their success in recent times. Yeah, they did win the one off ICC championship but outside of that Pakistan has not put up great performances. Still remember the great Pakistan which any team would fear in the 90s with pacers like Akram and Waqar. I hope they revive.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 4, 2019 17:09:25 GMT
Guys...we talked about the best bowlers of recent times. Let's talk about the best batsmen. I will put the following batsmen in my "A" category. The 90s - Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting, Kallis (These names will also apply for 2000s) The 2000s - Sanga, Dravid, Hussey, ABD and Cook The 2010s - Smith, Kohli, Root, and Kane. I think some may question my selection of Hussey and my exclusion of Jaya. I know Hussey didn't have a very long career but I believe % of the time he spent at the top level relative to the percentage of time he didn't spend at the top level was much greater and so Hussey will be in my A-category. I do love to know if anyone will have Steve Waugh, Inzamam, Mark Waugh, Viru, Yousuf Youhana (who was bullied by teammates into converting to Islam) or any other guy in their A-category and if they won't have anyone from my A-category in their A-category. weststigersbobpimpinainteasyhitchcockthelegendhoskotafe3
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jan 5, 2019 1:02:18 GMT
For 90s add S Waugh and A Flower. M Waugh was never a great batsman though he was one of the most entertaining to watch, and he and Paul Collingwood are the two greatest fieldsmen I've seen.
I'm definitely on the Yousuf bandwagon. Much better bat than Younis or Inzy.
In all fairness, Hayden should be on the 00s list. He struggled against high quality pace, but an average of over 50 and 8000+ runs is nothing to sneeze at.
I think Cook deserves A Grade status as there's no tougher gig than opening the batting in England and he did it successfully for 12 years, also his performances in Oz in 2010 and India in 2013 were simply legendary.
I wouldn't have Hussey on there.
Really difficult fringe players are Jayawardene, Michael Clarke, KP, Martin Crowe (for 90s), Gilchrist, G Smith, S Smith, Amla, etc.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jan 5, 2019 3:44:39 GMT
I’m going to have a think about your question Aj_June and answer it later. Australia 4/171 - Harris and Labuschagne were looking great, then Harris chopped on and 3 quick wickets fell. Shaun Marsh truly is a waste of space at this level. Might as well give a youngster a crack if he’s going to keep getting out so softly....
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Post by weststigersbob on Jan 5, 2019 8:45:42 GMT
Thisara Perera almost singlehandedly winning a game for SL in NZ. 140* off 73 balls. SL 9/297, need 23 off 23. 13 sixes. What an Innings!
And just as I post he gets out.
Still an awesome innings.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 5, 2019 8:48:29 GMT
Thisara Perera almost singlehandedly winning a game for SL in NZ. 140* off 73 balls. SL 9/297, need 23 off 23. 13 sixes. What an Innings! And just as I post he gets out. Still an awesome innings.us Thanks....just switched on after reading your post although he got out. But quite an innings!
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Post by weststigersbob on Jan 5, 2019 8:53:06 GMT
No flukes, just pure power hitting. One the best in a losing cause I’ve seen for a while.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 5, 2019 9:24:16 GMT
For 90s add S Waugh and A Flower. M Waugh was never a great batsman though he was one of the most entertaining to watch, and he and Paul Collingwood are the two greatest fieldsmen I've seen. I'm definitely on the Yousuf bandwagon. Much better bat than Younis or Inzy. In all fairness, Hayden should be on the 00s list. He struggled against high quality pace, but an average of over 50 and 8000+ runs is nothing to sneeze at. I think Cook deserves A Grade status as there's no tougher gig than opening the batting in England and he did it successfully for 12 years, also his performances in Oz in 2010 and India in 2013 were simply legendary. I wouldn't have Hussey on there. Really difficult fringe players are Jayawardene, Michael Clarke, KP, Martin Crowe (for 90s), Gilchrist, G Smith, S Smith, Amla, etc. Good post, Tafe. It's embarrassing that I completly forgot Gilly who was one of my favourites in the days he played. He surely will be in my A grade batsmen list in test cricket. He came in lower middle order and yet changed the momentum of so many games. So context also matters. Also forgot about Andy Flower. I will have him too. True about Hayden too. I remember 2001 was his turning point but remained a great batsman for 7 or 8 years after that.
I won't have Amla because his best days have been 4 years patch. Unless he turns around and goes on another run he won't get on my list. Wasim Akram rates Martin Crowe as one of the roughest batsmen he bowled against.
I am adding Shivnarine Chanderpaul to my list as well.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jan 5, 2019 9:45:58 GMT
I’m thinking of “A Grade” as been the very top escheleon of batsmen. In sort of an overlapping chronological order from the mid 80’s until today, and only counting Test Cricket, these are my A graders: Border Viv Richards Tendulkar Lara Steve Waugh Gilchrist Hayden Sangakkara Cook Graeme Smith ABDV Kohli Steve Smith
There are quite a number close, the 2 closest being Jayawardene and Dravid. Kallis, Youhana, Amla, Langer, Chanderpaul, Clarke, Hussey, Pietersen, Flower, Laxman and Williamson are also in contention, just below though. A few guys I won’t agree with are Sehwag (An eye only player if I’ve ever seen one. Some days you’d swear he had lead in his batting shoes), Root (poor, poor conversion rate. Never seen him truly dominate an attack) and Gayle (limited batting technique, pure slogger and blaster)
EDIT : I forgot Ponting. Duh ! 🤪🤪🤪. Slot him in the Top Grade. Best Hooker and Puller of a cricket ball ever....
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 5, 2019 9:54:15 GMT
My memory is actually bad and I do need to work on it.
Kevin Pietersen is definitely in my A grade. He played some of the best innings of this century and was one of the most imposing batsmen when he was in form. A solid record as well.
How could I have missed Kevin Pietersen?
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 5, 2019 9:55:24 GMT
I remember the innings Kevin Pietersen played in India that won them the game. It was all about him. That was rare test series victory that England had in India and I believe that would be rare for next 2 or 3 decades if not more.
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Post by hitchcockthelegend on Jan 5, 2019 15:21:52 GMT
You guys are a bit more into stats than I am, so I really just go on who I would pay to watch bat and who would I want batting for my life?
In my lifetime >
England
Gower Thorpe Trescothick Root (conversion rate be damned, his ascent to 50s is up there with the best, might even be top on figures? Plus his average hovers around the 50 mark, that's pretty great) Pietersen Cook
Australia
Border G. Chappell S. Waugh Ponting Smith
India
Gavaskar Tendulkar Azharuddin Dravid Laxman
Pakistan
Miandad Yousuf Younis Khan Anwar
South Africa
Kallis Kirsten Cullinan Villiers Gibbs
New Zealand
Williamson McCullum M. Crowe
Sri Lanka
Sangakkara Jayawardene Samaraweera Aravinda Atapattu
Zimbabwe
A. Flower
Windies
Lara Richards Lloyd Greenidge Haynes
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 6, 2019 13:37:23 GMT
I’m thinking of “A Grade” as been the very top escheleon of batsmen. In sort of an overlapping chronological order from the mid 80’s until today, and only counting Test Cricket, these are my A graders: Border Viv Richards Tendulkar Lara Steve Waugh Gilchrist Hayden Sangakkara Cook Graeme Smith ABDV Kohli Steve Smith There are quite a number close, the 2 closest being Jayawardene and Dravid. Kallis, Youhana, Amla, Langer, Chanderpaul, Clarke, Hussey, Pietersen, Flower, Laxman and Williamson are also in contention, just below though. A few guys I won’t agree with are Sehwag (An eye only player if I’ve ever seen one. Some days you’d swear he had lead in his batting shoes), Root (poor, poor conversion rate. Never seen him truly dominate an attack) and Gayle (limited batting technique, pure slogger and blaster) EDIT : I forgot Ponting. Duh ! 🤪🤪🤪. Slot him in the Top Grade. Best Hooker and Puller of a cricket ball ever.... I will put Rahul Dravid in category of A grade because he scored in diverse places. His away average (53) was better than home average (51) and he scored 6 more centuries away from home than he did at home. His another great ability was to score in stacks of runs. He had 600 run series in England and Australia and India managed to draw those series. His amazing performances led to India winning away series twice in WI (after 30 years or more). And even if WI was not a very strong team the pitches on which he scored runs were like minefields where other batsmen were not even getting into double figures.
I can't see someone like Amla or Clarke in the best of best because either they performed at a high level for a limited time or they have a significant disparity in home/away record. Clarke for instance had an average of 62 in Australia as compared to 39 away and far less centuries away in spite of playing more tests away. Same goes for Mahela Jayawardene who averaged disproportionally high in familiar circumstances in SL.
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jan 7, 2019 3:53:49 GMT
This is petering out into nothing so time for series report cards: Marcus Harris: B: didn't exactly grasp his opportunity with both hands, but showed enough to indicate he can play. Aaron Finch: F: horrible series by any measure, mitigating circumstances given he was batting out of position, but has to be judged by his performances, which were poor. Usman Khawaja: C-: one good innings to solidify an Aussie win at Perth and not much else. Very dissapointing at Melbourne and Sydney. Marnus Labuschagne: D-: can't get much of a mark for one innings, but did more to help Australia's cause in that innings than most of the Aussie top order combined. S Marsh: F: better returns than his last home series vs India, but so did every Australian batsman, including his brother. A couple of starts. Nothing else. Hanscombe: D-: got a start most times he batted saving him from an F, but looked a worse player than before he was dropped. Travis Head: C-: that 70 odd early in the series feels a long time ago. Indian bowlers worked him out pretty quickly. M Marsh: F: shouldn't have played, and should have played better than he did once he got his chance Tim Paine: C-: some decent innings with the bat, but his captaincy lacked imagination along with a cruvial dropped catch. Pat Cummins: A: Australia's best paceman and one of our better bats as well. One of the few winners for Australia. Mitchell Starc: D: never got going with the ball or bat. A couple of good spells here and there, but his decline since Newlands remains alarming. Nathan Lyon: B+: bowled well as usual, but had little impact at Sydney. Scored some handy lower order runs and fielded well. Josh Hazelwood: C: had his moments with the ball, scored some stubborn runs at No.11, but overall was dissapointing.
India: KL Rahul: F: did nothing. Murali Vijay: F: see Rahul Agalwar: B: similar series to Harris. Showed real promise and should have made a hundred, maybe a couple of hundreds. Pujara: A+: player of the series by some distance. Three very good hundreds, all of which were different innings. Seemed to lose concentration around the 190 mark, which he needs to work on... Virat Kohli B+: great century at Perth and a valuable 82 at Melbourne. Managed his bowlers well and led India to their first series win in Australia. Ayjinka Rahane: D: looked good a couple of times but dissapointed overall. Vihari: C+: did what his team asked of him in a variety of roles. Showed himself to be a capable utility. R Sharma: D: only played two tests, but scored a 50 in one of them. Risahb Pant: A-: good series with the gloves and finally cashed in some good batting form with a 150 at Sydney. Ashwin: C: took 6 wickets in the only test he played, which is pretty good, but can't get higher than a C only playing 25% of the games. Jadeja: C+: perfectly adequate with the ball and handy runs with the bat. U Yadav: F: bowled poorly in his only match. M Shami: B+: more than useful old ball bowler. One great spell at Perth and did his bit the rest of the time. Kuldeep: C: took a 5 fer in his only bowling innings. I Sharma: B: like Anderson in 2010 arrived a whipping boy and left having made a point. India's enforcer with some quality short stuff and got decent return with wickets. Bumrah: A+: the best bowler of the summer. Quality short stuff and could swing the old ball too. Rarely looked anything but threatening.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 7, 2019 4:47:42 GMT
I think your scorecard is perfect!
Though I liked Lyon a lot. I do be surprised if Pant keeps up with such performance for long but then he is young and who knows.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jan 7, 2019 5:38:18 GMT
Harsh on Kuldeep Hosko. Bowled in one innings, got a 5fer - and only scored a C ?
Only Australians worth more than a D are Cummins and Lyon. And the selectors deserve an F and a smack upside the head. I see both Warne and Mark Waugh are still saying that Australia should persevere with Shaun Marsh for the SL series and onto the ashes. Proof positive that seemingly intelligent well credentialed experts know fucking nothing. He’s a repeated failure and he’s 36. But hey, he looks good.
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jan 7, 2019 6:05:53 GMT
Harris was ok. Threw away a hundred. Kuldeep amd Ashwin I used the same logic: if you only play 1 game (in Kuldeep's case one inning) of a 4 game series, C is all you get.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Jan 7, 2019 10:12:00 GMT
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Post by hitchcockthelegend on Jan 8, 2019 23:45:10 GMT
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