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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Sept 24, 2017 16:00:11 GMT
I think Conservatives made a big deal out of nothing when Kaepernick first did it. He was exercising his First Amendment Right to bring awareness to what he believe was oppression. Do I necessarily agree with it. Not really, but he still had the Constitutional right to do it. And it didn't bother me when other players did it out of support. But now they're just doing it for the sake of being anti-Trump. It's getting out of hand and quite frankly, ridiculous.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Sept 25, 2017 16:04:01 GMT
You want to Blame Someone, Blame that EPIC Dumb@$$ Trump!
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Post by damngumby on Sept 25, 2017 16:32:22 GMT
What ... you think the kneelers just want to quietly protest whatever they are protesting against?
No. They intentionally picked a manner of protest that would raise as many hackles as possible and further divide the country.
Blame the skunk for the stink, not the person reacting to the smell.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Sept 25, 2017 16:58:11 GMT
I think Conservatives made a big deal out of nothing when Kaepernick first did it. He was exercising his First Amendment Right to bring awareness to what he believe was oppression. Do I necessarily agree with it. Not really, but he still had the Constitutional right to do it. And it didn't bother me when other players did it out of support. But now they're just doing it for the sake of being anti-Trump. It's getting out of hand and quite frankly, ridiculous. When you say you don't necessarily agree with it, do you mean that you disagree with Kaepernick's reasons or the fact that he protested in general? I'm going to assume you disagree with his reasons. So with that I ask you, why? Are you black? Again I'll assume not. So assuming you are white you can't possibly have any idea what it's like to be black, to live with the knowledge that a speeding ticket could end up with you getting shot for no good reason, or a million other things. I don't either, I am white, but I can see with my own two eyes what goes on in this country. The goal of Kaepernick's protest is a success - to stimulate discussion, to draw attention to social injustice. Now it's time for changes to be made. Unfortunately President Dickhead is unqualified to bring about change for the better, he only makes things worse. So, as you've said about kneeling to be anti-Trump, we live in a world now where being anti-trump and being anti-racist are the same fucking things.
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Post by damngumby on Sept 25, 2017 17:09:09 GMT
It's all very simple ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 17:25:50 GMT
That didn't help this guy much
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Post by bluerisk on Sept 25, 2017 18:27:56 GMT
I think Conservatives made a big deal out of nothing when Kaepernick first did it. He was exercising his First Amendment Right to bring awareness to what he believe was oppression. Do I necessarily agree with it. Not really, but he still had the Constitutional right to do it. And it didn't bother me when other players did it out of support. But now they're just doing it for the sake of being anti-Trump. It's getting out of hand and quite frankly, ridiculous. He can express his believes and personal agenda in his freetime, not while at work.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 25, 2017 18:41:16 GMT
"So, as you've said about kneeling to be anti-Trump, we live in a world now where being anti-trump and being anti-racist are the same fucking things."
Trump is an abhorrent moron to be sure, but let's not pretend that Colin Kaepernick is some crusading political intellectual at the same time. He's made a number of dumb and ill-advised/informed statements about things before. When you are playing for Miami and you praise Fidel Castro, you're kind of just an idiot. I don't think he's some sort of great black leader.
Somehow his protest approach has risen above him through. On that front: good for him.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Sept 25, 2017 19:06:35 GMT
I think Conservatives made a big deal out of nothing when Kaepernick first did it. He was exercising his First Amendment Right to bring awareness to what he believe was oppression. Do I necessarily agree with it. Not really, but he still had the Constitutional right to do it. And it didn't bother me when other players did it out of support. But now they're just doing it for the sake of being anti-Trump. It's getting out of hand and quite frankly, ridiculous. He can express his believes and personal agenda in his freetime, not while at work. Says you. The NFL says otherwise, evidenced by their actions and by their statements. When your employees do things you don't like, you can fire them or you can choose to stand by them (absent express provisions in contracts, extenuating circumstances, applicable law, etc.). That's the beauty of such freedoms.
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Post by bluerisk on Sept 25, 2017 19:15:59 GMT
He can express his believes and personal agenda in his freetime, not while at work. Says you. The NFL says otherwise, evidenced by their actions and by their statements. When your employees do things you don't like, you can fire them or you can choose to stand by them (absent express provisions in contracts, extenuating circumstances, applicable law, etc.). That's the beauty of such freedoms. Because for now the employers tolerate it or even support it. But if they wouldn't, these players could be fired and no judge would support their claim that they were executing their constitutional right of freedom of speech. When at work and also representing the employer, one has to keep the private matters private. In this case they are lucky. But what if the ratings and game attandences will drop dramtically after the fans start to boycott these teams - what then?! We will see if this happens and how the club owners will react. I hope they will melt like a snowball in hell. But maybe it is just an idle hope...who knows.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 19:27:15 GMT
good thing so many of them are getting used to kneeling...with so many of them criminals, they'll need to assume the position for Bubba in prison....
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 25, 2017 19:42:05 GMT
What ... you think the kneelers just want to quietly protest whatever they are protesting against? No. They intentionally picked a manner of protest that would raise as many hackles as possible and further divide the country. Blame the skunk for the stink, not the person reacting to the smell. Yes, they choose to draw attention to racial inequity in America by kneeling during the national anthem. It's hilarious that you think people standing up for the oppressed are trying to 'divide the country' while the President goes out of his way to be divisive by vehemently criticizing anything and everything that doesn't agree with him. They aren't promoting violence, they aren't preaching to the crowd or the cameras; they're making a silent statement before the game begins and then going to work. Maybe they should stop during game play and hold up Black Lives Matter t-shirts? You're a Patriots fan, right? Did you hear Brandin Cooks comments (when asked by a reporter, he didn't have some preachy press conference) about it after the game? Do you still not understand that it isn't a protest of the military or the flag? Of course you aren't going to listen, because if you did you'd gain a little perspective and there's just no room for critical thinking in your bubble. And as for your skunk analogy... yesterday's widespread protests (on a much larger scale than ever before) were a direct reaction to Trump's idiotic comments, so...
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 25, 2017 19:47:16 GMT
Says you. The NFL says otherwise, evidenced by their actions and by their statements. When your employees do things you don't like, you can fire them or you can choose to stand by them (absent express provisions in contracts, extenuating circumstances, applicable law, etc.). That's the beauty of such freedoms. Because for now the employers tolerate it or even support it. But if they wouldn't, these players could be fired and no judge would support their claim that they were executing their constitutional right of freedom of speech. When at work and also representing the employer, one has to keep the private matters private. In this case they are lucky. But what if the ratings and game attandences will drop dramtically after the fans start to boycott these teams - what then?! We will see if this happens and how the club owners will react. I hope they will melt like a snowball in hell. But maybe it is just an idle hope...who knows. If political protests are not specifically banned in the NFL's CBA then the players have every right to do it. And it most certainly isn't a part of the CBA or the owners would have put a stop to it long ago. The owners and the league aren't tolerating it.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 25, 2017 19:47:24 GMT
Says you. The NFL says otherwise, evidenced by their actions and by their statements. When your employees do things you don't like, you can fire them or you can choose to stand by them (absent express provisions in contracts, extenuating circumstances, applicable law, etc.). That's the beauty of such freedoms. Because for now the employers tolerate it or even support it. But if they wouldn't, these players could be fired and no judge would support their claim that they were executing their constitutional right of freedom of speech. When at work and also representing the employer, one has to keep the private matters private. In this case they are lucky. But what if the ratings and game attandences will drop dramtically after the fans start to boycott these teams - what then?! We will see if this happens and how the club owners will react. I hope they will melt like a snowball in hell. But maybe it is just an idle hope...who knows. When racist rednecks, douchebags and aging baby boomers who can't accept a changing world stop going to NFL games, there will be plenty of people waiting to scoop those available tickets up.
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Post by damngumby on Sept 25, 2017 20:46:55 GMT
A bunch of privileged millionaires protesting inequality. Kinda like Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio lecturing about our carbon footprints as they spew more carbon from their luxury yachts/mansions/private jets than a thousand regular schmoes. That's Problem #1.
Problem #2 ... Dissing the country that provided them with the opportunity to become wildly success. They're not burning the flag, but the intent is the same.
They are at work. That's problem #3.
He wanted to stand with his brothers. An interesting choice of words, since he wasn't with the brothers who were actually standing.
There you go again, making a knee-jerk judgement based entirely on your own bias and pre-determined notions. Please try to practice what you preach.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Sept 25, 2017 21:02:58 GMT
A bunch of privileged millionaires protesting inequality. Kinda like Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio lecturing about our carbon footprints as they spew more carbon from their luxury yachts/mansions/private jets than a thousand regular schmoes. That's Problem #1. Problem #2 ... Dissing the country that provided them with the opportunity to become wildly success. They're not burning the flag, but the intent is the same. They are at work. That's problem #3. He wanted to stand with his brothers. An interesting choice of words, since he wasn't with the brothers who were actually standing. There you go again, making a knee-jerk judgement based entirely on your own bias and pre-determined notions. Please try to practice what you preach. What does them being millionaires have to do with anything? One, they weren't born into wealth, and two, they're not protesting for better working conditions or more money, they are bringing attention to social injustices. If you think that a black athlete is immune to racism just because he signed a large contract then you shouldn't proceed any further into this argument.
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Post by damngumby on Sept 25, 2017 21:03:08 GMT
The last poll I saw said that 72% thought that this sort of demonstration was unpatriotic. Clearly, you are in the minority ... which, BTW, doesn't mean that you are entitled to any sort of special status.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Sept 25, 2017 21:34:20 GMT
The last poll I saw said that 72% thought that this sort of demonstration was unpatriotic. Clearly, you are in the minority ... which, BTW, doesn't mean that you are entitled to any sort of special status. I know you weren't responding directly to me with this reply but since you brought it up there is nothing more bullshit then this so-called patriotism. Doing the following does not make one patriotic - listening to Toby Keith and Kid Rock, owning and shooting guns, hanging a flag on your front porch, building border walls, hating groups of people because they are not you i.e. white and Christian, quoting the constitution and the Bill of Rights but only the parts that suit them and not when it addresses something that one doesn't agree with, watching NASCAR, drinking Budweiser, shopping at Walmart, and saying people shouldn't protest to bring attention to what they believe in if they have legitimate reasons to protest. Now I'm not saying this is you because I don't know you, but this is the typical person who considers themselves a patriot. In most of these cases they couldn't be further from what truly being patriotic is. Let me also ask you, why do you have such a problem with the players do this "at work"? What does that have to do with anything? Is it because you feel that if you protested against something you believed in while YOU were at work you would get reprimanded or fired? These athletes have a public forum available to them and they are using it, and in this case their employers, for the most part, are supporting it. Is it that much different than, say, George Clooney or Will Smith having a telethon on every channel on TV asking you to send money for hurricane relief, or Eddie Vedder talking about being anti-gun violence during a Pearl Jam concert? They are at work. Now while you may have bought that Pearl Jam ticket so you could hear Jeremy, you're also getting a famous wealthy person using his forum to protest that which he disagrees with. So again, how is this occurring "at work" relevant to anything? You know one day LeBron James Steph Curry and Marshawn Lynch and Malcolm Jenkins are going to retire and no longer be athletes. But they will always be black, so they have every right to protest and talk about what it's like to be black in America. It would almost be irresponsible of them if they didn't.
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Post by poelzig on Sept 25, 2017 22:42:54 GMT
Because for now the employers tolerate it or even support it. But if they wouldn't, these players could be fired and no judge would support their claim that they were executing their constitutional right of freedom of speech. When at work and also representing the employer, one has to keep the private matters private. In this case they are lucky. But what if the ratings and game attandences will drop dramtically after the fans start to boycott these teams - what then?! We will see if this happens and how the club owners will react. I hope they will melt like a snowball in hell. But maybe it is just an idle hope...who knows. When racist rednecks, douchebags and aging baby boomers who can't accept a changing world stop going to NFL games, there will be plenty of people waiting to scoop those available tickets up. I'm a huge proponent of free speech so I understand where you're coming from. That said redneck is a hate filled racial pejorative so when you use it so casually you're revealing yourself to be a bigot and no different than the people you are so OUTRAGED about. If you want to be a bigot that's your right but you might want to quit being such a blatant hypocrite too.
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Post by damngumby on Sept 25, 2017 23:10:40 GMT
Everyone has to deal with some sort of 'ism. I'm a big intimidating white guy, with a face only a mother (and wife) could love ... thanks, in part, to an unfortunate encounter with a windshield when I was a teen. My appearance is compounded with copious tatts, long hair, a serious beard, and a preference for leather attire. I drive an Audi ... sometimes kinda fast.
Every single traffic stop I've been in has been a tense affair, even though my demeanor is nothing like my appearance. I've had a gun pulled on me twice, once with the barrel pressed into my temple by a rather jittery female cop. For absolutely nothing (other than exceeding the speed limit by a bit). The fact is - I was perceived as a potential threat by the police officers, due to the way I looked, and they acted accordingly.
I eventually came to understand that the cops were just exercising a normal, essential, defense mechanism for that line of work. These days I walk on eggs when approached by a cop. I've learned that certain seemingly innocuous expressions and gestures can trigger a jumpy cop, and I avoid them.
It's not fair, but hey, life.
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