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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 3, 2017 23:02:16 GMT
Logan introduced the concept of cloning and Cable showing up in Deadpool 2, does that mean Jean Grey's clone will be showing up?
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 3, 2017 23:06:12 GMT
Logan introduced the concept of cloning and Cable showing up in Deadpool 2, does that mean Jean Grey's clone will be showing up? I think they might just merge Madelyne and Jean together. |
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 3, 2017 23:32:37 GMT
Logan introduced the concept of cloning and Cable showing up in Deadpool 2, does that mean Jean Grey's clone will be showing up? I think they might just merge Madelyne and Jean together. With the way things are set-up I don't see Jean becoming his mother. Cable has to come from the future and that means after the events of Logan. Where she is clearly not around. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 4, 2017 0:05:20 GMT
I think they might just merge Madelyne and Jean together. With the way things are set-up I don't see Jean becoming his mother. Cable has to come from the future and that means after the events of Logan. Where she is clearly not around. Or Logan is in its own timeline and not really connected to past and not yet made X-men movies. I mean, they had the katana from The Wolverine on his wall in Logan. Also, Cable comes from the far future. Not a couple decades from now. They could have had Nathan and sent him into the future and gotten over it by the time Logan goes to the good future at the end of DoFP. Nathan didn't grow up and became Cable in normal time. He was sent a long ways into the future. Like 2 thousand years or so. |
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 4, 2017 0:30:30 GMT
With the way things are set-up I don't see Jean becoming his mother. Cable has to come from the future and that means after the events of Logan. Where she is clearly not around. Or Logan is in its own timeline and not really connected to past and not yet made X-men movies. I mean, they had the katana from The Wolverine on his wall in Logan. Also, Cable comes from the far future. Not a couple decades from now. They could have had Nathan and sent him into the future and gotten over it by the time Logan goes to the good future at the end of DoFP. Nathan didn't grow up and became Cable in normal time. He was sent a long ways into the future. Like 2 thousand years or so. It's not according to the director. The Katana doesn't mean much. All that says is history repeats itself, which is a theory Hank had in DOFP. I know. I've read The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. But the writers for Deadpool have said they wanted Cable's origin to be less complicated. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2017 0:44:54 GMT
Logan introduced the concept of cloning and Cable showing up in Deadpool 2, does that mean Jean Grey's clone will be showing up? Doubt they'll get that deep into it. But if they're ever gonna bring her in, between the elements you mentioned above and the general inclusion of Sinister into the, er, "XCU," Supernova would be the time. Innit? |
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Mar 4, 2017 3:41:26 GMT
There's really no point in bringing her. She was literally a substitute for Jean because the writer wanted to retire Cyclops so Storm could be the leader- and his idea for it was that Scott would marry a woman that looks exactly like this dead girlfriend one or two months after they met and no one would see anything wrong with it. No reason to exist in the movies.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2017 3:44:54 GMT
There's really no point in bringing her. She was literally a substitute for Jean because the writer wanted to retire Cyclops so Storm could be the leader- and his idea for it was that Scott would marry a woman that looks exactly like this dead girlfriend one or two months after they met and no one would see anything wrong with it. No reason to exist in the movies. Who wrote that, incidentally? Claremont? |
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 4, 2017 4:13:11 GMT
There's really no point in bringing her. She was literally a substitute for Jean because the writer wanted to retire Cyclops so Storm could be the leader- and his idea for it was that Scott would marry a woman that looks exactly like this dead girlfriend one or two months after they met and no one would see anything wrong with it. No reason to exist in the movies. I'm just curious, but do you feel the same way about the Phoenix Force? I mean the reason that thing exists was to bring Jean back from the dead. edit: 100th post! |
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Mar 4, 2017 4:51:06 GMT
There's really no point in bringing her. She was literally a substitute for Jean because the writer wanted to retire Cyclops so Storm could be the leader- and his idea for it was that Scott would marry a woman that looks exactly like this dead girlfriend one or two months after they met and no one would see anything wrong with it. No reason to exist in the movies. Who wrote that, incidentally? Claremont? Yep. And more ridiculously, he got mad at Jim Shooter for bringing Jean back and break up the marriage and then begun to take out his anger on Cyclops instead, and that's where the "love triangle" with Jean and Logan was retconned- before, Logan liked her in silence and discretely and Jean barely noticed her, but after the marriage was broken, Claremont retconned it into Logan chasing her from day one and her barely resisting, even leaving the X-men because of it- and his plan was eventually was for her to have an affair with Wolverine and then leave Cyke. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2017 5:08:23 GMT
Who wrote that, incidentally? Claremont? Yep. And more ridiculously, he got mad at Jim Shooter for bringing Jean back and break up the marriage and then begun to take out his anger on Cyclops instead, and that's where the "love triangle" with Jean and Logan was retconned- before, Logan liked her in silence and discretely and Jean barely noticed her, but after the marriage was broken, Claremont retconned it into Logan chasing her from day one and her barely resisting, even leaving the X-men because of it- and his plan was eventually was for her to have an affair with Wolverine and then leave Cyke. Claremont seems to've certainly had his quirks, but he sounds like nothing if not a super long-term planner from everything I've read and listened to (on podcasts, etc.) about him. The most interesting thing I've heard is that his philosophy on the X-Men was completely antithetical to what they became: that he saw it, like any other school, as something for characters to pass through, grow from, and then move on. He apparently believed that phasing people out after a period of time and new people in would keep things fresh, etc. I suppose you could argue the X-books were forced in this direction by virtue of killing so many characters off and suchlike with various stunts, particularly in the mid- to late-90s, but they were far past their peak saturation at that point and never really (if you'll excuse the pro wrestling parlance) "got over" the new characters as being worthy successors to Wolverine, Storm, et. al. One wonders what the books would've looked like in the 90s had Claremont retained creative hegemony as he did for the previous -- whatever it was, ten/twelve years. |
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Mar 4, 2017 14:13:47 GMT
Yep. And more ridiculously, he got mad at Jim Shooter for bringing Jean back and break up the marriage and then begun to take out his anger on Cyclops instead, and that's where the "love triangle" with Jean and Logan was retconned- before, Logan liked her in silence and discretely and Jean barely noticed her, but after the marriage was broken, Claremont retconned it into Logan chasing her from day one and her barely resisting, even leaving the X-men because of it- and his plan was eventually was for her to have an affair with Wolverine and then leave Cyke. Claremont seems to've certainly had his quirks, but he sounds like nothing if not a super long-term planner from everything I've read and listened to (on podcasts, etc.) about him. The most interesting thing I've heard is that his philosophy on the X-Men was completely antithetical to what they became: that he saw it, like any other school, as something for characters to pass through, grow from, and then move on. He apparently believed that phasing people out after a period of time and new people in would keep things fresh, etc. I suppose you could argue the X-books were forced in this direction by virtue of killing so many characters off and suchlike with various stunts, particularly in the mid- to late-90s, but they were far past their peak saturation at that point and never really (if you'll excuse the pro wrestling parlance) "got over" the new characters as being worthy successors to Wolverine, Storm, et. al. One wonders what the books would've looked like in the 90s had Claremont retained creative hegemony as he did for the previous -- whatever it was, ten/twelve years. Claremont's plans were known and...well, not good. For example, his plan was to kill Wolverine, keep him dead for months, then have him return as a member of the Hand for a couple of years before returning him to the X-men. Basically, the Enemy of the State storyline, but it would last for years and years (no clue as to what the Wolverine writer was supposed to do all this time) Also, during the period, Jean would have an affair with him and leave Scott. He also was much better when he had a strong co-writer to reign him in- his best work outside the Byrne years was mostly in crossovers (Mutant Massacre and Fall of the Mutants particularly) when he worked with other writers and the lead up to it; left to his own devices, the story seem to meander- see Uncanny after the characters go through the Siege Perilous, when absolutely nothing happens- even if he had a plan for the characters, it is no excuse for being so dull and pointless for such a long period of time. Also, his idea that the characters "had to move on" applied only to the 05. His pet characters- Storm particularly, but Wolverine and Kitty too for example- were never, ever supposed to leave the books. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2017 16:22:00 GMT
Claremont seems to've certainly had his quirks, but he sounds like nothing if not a super long-term planner from everything I've read and listened to (on podcasts, etc.) about him. The most interesting thing I've heard is that his philosophy on the X-Men was completely antithetical to what they became: that he saw it, like any other school, as something for characters to pass through, grow from, and then move on. He apparently believed that phasing people out after a period of time and new people in would keep things fresh, etc. I suppose you could argue the X-books were forced in this direction by virtue of killing so many characters off and suchlike with various stunts, particularly in the mid- to late-90s, but they were far past their peak saturation at that point and never really (if you'll excuse the pro wrestling parlance) "got over" the new characters as being worthy successors to Wolverine, Storm, et. al. One wonders what the books would've looked like in the 90s had Claremont retained creative hegemony as he did for the previous -- whatever it was, ten/twelve years. Claremont's plans were known and...well, not good. For example, his plan was to kill Wolverine, keep him dead for months, then have him return as a member of the Hand for a couple of years before returning him to the X-men. Basically, the Enemy of the State storyline, but it would last for years and years (no clue as to what the Wolverine writer was supposed to do all this time) Also, during the period, Jean would have an affair with him and leave Scott. He also was much better when he had a strong co-writer to reign him in- his best work outside the Byrne years was mostly in crossovers (Mutant Massacre and Fall of the Mutants particularly) when he worked with other writers and the lead up to it; left to his own devices, the story seem to meander- see Uncanny after the characters go through the Siege Perilous, when absolutely nothing happens- even if he had a plan for the characters, it is no excuse for being so dull and pointless for such a long period of time. Also, his idea that the characters "had to move on" applied only to the 05. His pet characters- Storm particularly, but Wolverine and Kitty too for example- were never, ever supposed to leave the books. Wow! This is a much more balanced, warts-and-all depiction of Claremont than (much of) what I've read. Cool deal. Didn't know basically any of that, especially the affair between Logan/Jean and the permanence of his "pet" characters. Thanks. |
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