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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Oct 25, 2017 17:33:30 GMT
He no longer honors the code of being a Marine which is to serve and protect this great country of ours. And if they accept him just because he was once a Marine then I don't think that says much about them. In fact it says that they accept violence and killing over honor and righteousness.
If the Marines honor the Punisher, then the Secretary of Defense needs to re-evaluate their recruitment procedures and their psychological testing of potential recruits because Marines honoring a psychopath like the Punisher would be really scary. It would be like if the Army honored Timothy McVeigh just because he was a former soldier. Typical you trying to turn this into MCU being anti-military. Since you know nothing about the military or the Marine Corps for that matter and don't care about them, why don't you shut the fuck up. The Punisher is very popular among units today and alot of then have adopted the skull emblem and use it as a symbol for fighting ISIS. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 25, 2017 17:47:06 GMT
seahawksraawk00 thinks Frank Castle is a role model for the Marines. Actually, Captain America isn't a boy scout. Cap aided and abetted a double-murderer to escape from the authorities. I was in the Boy Scouts and they never taught us to break the law like that. He was a big boy scout in the comics. As for Bucky, he's a victim of brainwashing. seahawksraawk00 thinks Frank Castle is a role model for the Marines. Actually, Captain America isn't a boy scout. Cap aided and abetted a double-murderer to escape from the authorities. I was in the Boy Scouts and they never taught us to break the law like that. He was a big boy scout in the comics. I was referring to the movies. I don't read Captain America comic books. As for Bucky, he's a victim of brainwashing. Then Bucky should instruct his lawyer to argue that defense in front of a jury. Because whether Bucky committed the murders of his own intent or Bucky committed the murders due to the influence of someone else, that's for a jury to decide. But Cap didn't believe in trial by jury and believed that he should be the sole judge and jury. Cap basically spit on the Constitution because he wanted to be a tyrant. Moreover, all the MCU fans who defend Cap for aiding and abetting Bucky to flee from the authorities keep overlooking the fact that since Bucky refused to turn himself in and since Cap aided and abetted Bucky to escape, then law enforcement has to spend valuable manpower and resources to try to track down Bucky and arrest him. Valuable manpower and resources that would be diverted away from catching other criminals.
So by aiding and abetting Bucky to escape from the authorities and thus forcing law enforcement to divert valuable manpower and resources from catching other criminals, Cap is basically helping other criminals get away with crimes that law enforcement won't have the manpower and resources to stop because they have to spend the valuable manpower and resources trying to track down and arrest Bucky. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 25, 2017 17:55:59 GMT
Batman or Superman wouldn't do that stuff. Sure they would, and you'd cheer them on. He won it fair and square. Unlike Batman, who inherited his wealth and Superman who has the Sun and alien genetics to thank for his powers. They told him Bucky wasn't going to get a trial, which means the government already violated his rights. And Batman and Superman violate the Constitution all the time with their activities. And it's no different than how Batman keeps protecting criminals like Catwoman and Red Hood. They willingly commit crimes (and in Red Hood's case, kills people), Bucky killed no one by his own will. Heck, Batman's asked Catwoman to marry him, and she's said yes. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Oct 25, 2017 18:00:39 GMT
He was a big boy scout in the comics. As for Bucky, he's a victim of brainwashing. He was a big boy scout in the comics. I was referring to the movies. I don't read Captain America comic books. As for Bucky, he's a victim of brainwashing. Then Bucky should instruct his lawyer to argue that defense in front of a jury. Because whether Bucky committed the murders of his own intent or Bucky committed the murders due to the influence of someone else, that's for a jury to decide. But Cap didn't believe in trial by jury and believed that he should be the sole judge and jury. Cap basically spit on the Constitution because he wanted to be a tyrant. Moreover, all the MCU fans who defend Cap for aiding and abetting Bucky to flee from the authorities keep overlooking the fact that since Bucky refused to turn himself in and since Cap aided and abetted Bucky to escape, then law enforcement has to spend valuable manpower and resources to try to track down Bucky and arrest him. Valuable manpower and resources that would be diverted away from catching other criminals.
So by aiding and abetting Bucky to escape from the authorities and thus forcing law enforcement to divert valuable manpower and resources from catching other criminals, Cap is basically helping other criminals get away with crimes that law enforcement won't have the manpower and resources to stop because they have to spend the valuable manpower and resources trying to track down and arrest Bucky.It's true he put his friend first before the law, it's a character flaw. But would you trust the government? This is the same government that had Nazis in their ranks and wanted to launch several aircrafts of death to police the country. Cap's not a Tyrant he just saw through the bullshit. Besides at the end of civil war, Bucky agreed to be put on ice. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 25, 2017 18:01:31 GMT
That's because Steve Rogers was a short and physically inept man before he became Captain America. So being short and physically inept and skinny and too lazy to exercise and train means you can take a shortcut to get an advantage? Bucky was brainwashed. Hydra had control of his mind. And Bucky can argue that defense in front of a jury. It's for a jury to decide if Bucky committed the murders of his own intent or if Bucky was under the influence of someone else. But Cap didn't believe in trial by jury and believed that he should be the sole judge and jury. So Cap basically spit on the Constitution and decided to be a tyrant. Rogers earned the right to be Captain America because he had the will and determination needed to represent the ideology of the United States and was an all around good person, his personality made him the best choice in the eyes of Professor Erskine. Bucky wasn't going to get a trial, he would have no place or time to tell his story to anybody. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 25, 2017 18:06:06 GMT
Leave it to DC-Fan to turn this thread from what could've been an interesting debate into a mad house of WTF-ery.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Oct 25, 2017 18:14:18 GMT
Leave it to DC-Fan to turn this thread from what could've been an interesting debate into a mad house  |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 25, 2017 18:50:18 GMT
Leave it to DC-Fan to turn this thread from what could've been an interesting debate into a mad house of WTF-ery. The "prosecution's" argument rests on the supposition that Steve Rogers is or was a jingoistic puppet who had always followed the rules up until the events of Civil War. The MCU version of Captain America follows a strict moral code of his own individual design. He holds his conscious as the ultimate authority as opposed to orders, rules and or regulations - no matter how well-intentioned they may be. For better or worse, Rogers has been flouting authority since his first appearance in the MCU when he went against Colonel Phillips to save men imprisoned behind enemy lines. This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. |
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Post by dazz on Oct 25, 2017 19:36:34 GMT
Leave it to DC-Fan to turn this thread from what could've been an interesting debate into a mad house of WTF-ery. The "prosecution's" argument rests on the supposition that Steve Rogers is or was a jingoistic puppet who had always followed the rules up until the events of Civil War. The MCU version of Captain America follows a strict moral code of his own individual design. He holds his conscious as the ultimate authority as opposed to orders, rules and or regulations - no matter how well-intentioned they may be. For better or worse, Rogers has been flouting authority since his first appearance in the MCU when he went against Colonel Phillips to save men imprisoned behind enemy lines. This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. Even Steve's drive to join the military shows his lack of respect to authority as he keeps being told he doesn't make the cut but he just keeps going to different recruitment places hoping to find either a sympathetic examiner or incompetent one, it's a mix of his conscience, selfishness and arrogance, which has always been a part of the MCU versions character, he's not a boy scout, nor is he a monster, he can however be self righteous, pig headed, short sighted and an out and out cock womble, but he never acts out of malice really he believes in what he does better or for worse, this actually makes him far more interesting than most adaptations of him where he always feels like a boyscout.
Love how DC-Fan though demonises him for taking the super serum when every guy in that program wanted it, or that Steve joins because the doc tells him to because he doesn't want to create another Red Skull, or how DC-Fan ignores that why Steve won the competition was because he was physically limited he was mentally superior and morally superior, hence why he was shown figuring out how to get the flag when all the meat heads failed to and how only he was willing to give his life to contain the grenade blast when everyone else shit their pants and ran, the doc knew the formula would give Steve peak physical abilities so why focus on peoples physically capabilities when no matter who gets picked is going to get upped to the same level of strength and speed regardless?
Clearly DC-Fan does not understand the point of the boot camp scenes.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 25, 2017 19:45:26 GMT
The "prosecution's" argument rests on the supposition that Steve Rogers is or was a jingoistic puppet who had always followed the rules up until the events of Civil War. The MCU version of Captain America follows a strict moral code of his own individual design. He holds his conscious as the ultimate authority as opposed to orders, rules and or regulations - no matter how well-intentioned they may be. For better or worse, Rogers has been flouting authority since his first appearance in the MCU when he went against Colonel Phillips to save men imprisoned behind enemy lines. This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. Even Steve's drive to join the military shows his lack of respect to authority as he keeps being told he doesn't make the cut but he just keeps going to different recruitment places hoping to find either a sympathetic examiner or incompetent one, it's a mix of his conscience, selfishness and arrogance, which has always been a part of the MCU versions character, he's not a boy scout, nor is he a monster, he can however be self righteous, pig headed, short sighted and an out and out cock womble, but he never acts out of malice really he believes in what he does better or for worse, this actually makes him far more interesting than most adaptations of him where he always feels like a boyscout.
Love how DC-Fan though demonises him for taking the super serum when every guy in that program wanted it, or that Steve joins because the doc tells him to because he doesn't want to create another Red Skull, or how DC-Fan ignores that why Steve won the competition was because he was physically limited he was mentally superior and morally superior, hence why he was shown figuring out how to get the flag when all the meat heads failed to and how only he was willing to give his life to contain the grenade blast when everyone else shit their pants and ran, the doc knew the formula would give Steve peak physical abilities so why focus on peoples physically capabilities when no matter who gets picked is going to get upped to the same level of strength and speed regardless?
Clearly DC-Fan does not understand the point of the boot camp scenes.
He posts this nonsense strictly to keep MCU fans on the defensive. And it's embarrassing how effective he is at it. There should be a movement to ignore or ban this guy. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 25, 2017 19:54:13 GMT
Leave it to DC-Fan to turn this thread from what could've been an interesting debate into a mad house of WTF-ery. The "prosecution's" argument rests on the supposition that Steve Rogers is or was a jingoistic puppet who had always followed the rules up until the events of Civil War. The MCU version of Captain America follows a strict moral code of his own individual design. He holds his conscious as the ultimate authority as opposed to orders, rules and or regulations - no matter how well-intentioned they may be. For better or worse, Rogers has been flouting authority since his first appearance in the MCU when he went against Colonel Phillips to save men imprisoned behind enemy lines. This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. The funny thing is how some detractors call Cap an outdated propaganda icon...his stories have always been ANTI-Nationalism and Anti-Jingoism. In fact, his books have been probably some of the most progressive stuff Marvel's put out. X-Men's conservative compared to him. |
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Post by dazz on Oct 25, 2017 19:56:04 GMT
Even Steve's drive to join the military shows his lack of respect to authority as he keeps being told he doesn't make the cut but he just keeps going to different recruitment places hoping to find either a sympathetic examiner or incompetent one, it's a mix of his conscience, selfishness and arrogance, which has always been a part of the MCU versions character, he's not a boy scout, nor is he a monster, he can however be self righteous, pig headed, short sighted and an out and out cock womble, but he never acts out of malice really he believes in what he does better or for worse, this actually makes him far more interesting than most adaptations of him where he always feels like a boyscout.
Love how DC-Fan though demonises him for taking the super serum when every guy in that program wanted it, or that Steve joins because the doc tells him to because he doesn't want to create another Red Skull, or how DC-Fan ignores that why Steve won the competition was because he was physically limited he was mentally superior and morally superior, hence why he was shown figuring out how to get the flag when all the meat heads failed to and how only he was willing to give his life to contain the grenade blast when everyone else shit their pants and ran, the doc knew the formula would give Steve peak physical abilities so why focus on peoples physically capabilities when no matter who gets picked is going to get upped to the same level of strength and speed regardless?
Clearly DC-Fan does not understand the point of the boot camp scenes.
He posts this nonsense strictly to keep MCU fans on the defensive. And it's embarrassing how effective he is at it. There should be a movement to ignore or ban this guy. The thing is he himself doesn't contribute to worthwhile discussions but he cant inadvertently cause them between others, like I imagine him igniting say Weirdraptor could lead to me having a fun back and forth with Raptor about our difference of opinion about which ever topic DC-Fan was trolling, he may spout shit but that shit can be used for manure in which viable produce can be grown from. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 25, 2017 20:09:29 GMT
He posts this nonsense strictly to keep MCU fans on the defensive. And it's embarrassing how effective he is at it. There should be a movement to ignore or ban this guy. The thing is he himself doesn't contribute to worthwhile discussions but he cant inadvertently cause them between others, like I imagine him igniting say Weirdraptor could lead to me having a fun back and forth with Raptor about our difference of opinion about which ever topic DC-Fan was trolling, he may spout shit but that shit can be used for manure in which viable produce can be grown from. Mind. Blown. Hee hee hee... |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 26, 2017 3:25:55 GMT
Leave it to DC-Fan to turn this thread from what could've been an interesting debate into a mad house of WTF-ery. This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. No, the argument is that Cap is appointing himself judge and jury (like Stalin, Castro, and Saddam Hussein did).
NO superhero does what Captain America did in Civil War. Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, they'll capture or arrest criminals but they don't act as judge and jury in deciding if a criminal should go free or what punishment the criminal should receive.
Cap is actually acting as judge and jury in deciding that Bucky shouldn't stand trial for his crimes and should just be set free. 1 person appointing himself judge and jury. That's often the 1st step towards tyranny.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 26, 2017 3:29:32 GMT
The "prosecution's" argument rests on the supposition that Steve Rogers is or was a jingoistic puppet who had always followed the rules up until the events of Civil War. The MCU version of Captain America follows a strict moral code of his own individual design. He holds his conscious as the ultimate authority as opposed to orders, rules and or regulations - no matter how well-intentioned they may be. For better or worse, Rogers has been flouting authority since his first appearance in the MCU when he went against Colonel Phillips to save men imprisoned behind enemy lines. This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. only he was willing to give his life to contain the grenade blast
He knew the grenade was a fake. He saw the Colonel toss that grenade and he knew the Colonel would never toss a real live grenade at his own men. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 26, 2017 3:33:08 GMT
This dipshit is arguing that Captain America is a criminal who takes the law into his own hands and is accountable to no one but himself. You know who else does that? Uh, let me see, I think maybe... every other superhero in existence. By intentional design, a superhero is a vigilante who breaks the law and bypasses due-process to mete out justice according to his or her own moral code - and we love them for it. No, the argument is that Cap is appointing himself judge and jury (like Stalin, Castro, and Saddam Hussein did).
NO superhero does what Captain America did in Civil War. Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, they'll capture or arrest criminals but they don't act as judge and jury in deciding if a criminal should go free or what punishment the criminal should receive.
Cap is actually acting as judge and jury in deciding that Bucky shouldn't stand trial for his crimes and should just be set free. 1 person appointing himself judge and jury. That's often the 1st step towards tyranny.
Superman was Zod's judge, jury and executioner. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 26, 2017 3:45:35 GMT
No, the argument is that Cap is appointing himself judge and jury (like Stalin, Castro, and Saddam Hussein did).
NO superhero does what Captain America did in Civil War. Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, they'll capture or arrest criminals but they don't act as judge and jury in deciding if a criminal should go free or what punishment the criminal should receive.
Cap is actually acting as judge and jury in deciding that Bucky shouldn't stand trial for his crimes and should just be set free. 1 person appointing himself judge and jury. That's often the 1st step towards tyranny.
Superman was Zod's judge, jury and executioner. No, he wasn't. Zod was killed while trying to harm an innocent family. That's no different than an armed robber who's holding a hostage getting shot and killed by a cop. The cop wasn't acting as judge, jury, and executioner. The cop was doing his duty to protect innocent lives.
An example of a cop acting as judge, jury, and executioner would be if the armed robber had surrendered and was placed under arrest and then the cop shot the robber in the back of the head. If Zod had surrendered and then Superman killed him, then Superman would've acted as judge, jury, and executioner. But Zod didn't surrender and was trying to harm an innocent family so Superman just used lethal force to stop Zod from harming innocent people, just like when a cop shoots an armed robber who's threatening to kill a hostage. That's not judge, jury, and executioner.
In Cap's situation, Bucky had been arrested. Cap decided that Bucky shouldn't have to stand trial for his crimes and should be set free. So Cap aided and abetted Bucky to escape from the authorities. Cap basically appointed himself judge and jury (just like Stalin, Castro, and Saddam Hussein did). 1 person appointing himself judge and jury - that's often the 1st step towards tyranny.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 26, 2017 3:56:48 GMT
Superman was Zod's judge, jury and executioner. No, he wasn't. Zod was killed while trying to harm an innocent family. That's no different than an armed robber who's holding a hostage getting shot and killed by a cop. The cop wasn't acting as judge, jury, and executioner. The cop was doing his duty to protect innocent lives.
An example of a cop acting as judge, jury, and executioner would be if the armed robber had surrendered and was placed under arrest and then the cop shot the robber in the back of the head. If Zod had surrendered and then Superman killed him, then Superman would've acted as judge, jury, and executioner. But Zod didn't surrender and was trying to harm an innocent family so Superman just used lethal force to stop Zod from harming innocent people, just like when a cop shoots an armed robber who's threatening to kill a hostage. That's not judge, jury, and executioner.
In Cap's situation, Bucky had been arrested. Cap decided that Bucky shouldn't have to stand trial for his crimes and should be set free. So Cap aided and abetted Bucky to escape from the authorities. Cap basically appointed himself judge and jury (just like Stalin, Castro, and Saddam Hussein did). 1 person appointing himself judge and jury - that's often the 1st step towards tyranny.
Doesn't matter, Kal and Dru are the last two remaining Kryptonians. As a representative of the house of El, he made the decision to kill the last remaining member of the house of Zod. Damn, Kal is a murdering son of a bitch! |
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2017 3:58:17 GMT
only he was willing to give his life to contain the grenade blast
He knew the grenade was a fake. He saw the Colonel toss that grenade and he knew the Colonel would never toss a real live grenade at his own men. For someone who requires everything spoon fed to you to justify the reasoning behind any action a MCU character takes it's incredible you come to that conclusion seeing how that is never shown, non of the troops see TLJ's character throw the grenade, Steve is in fact the last soldier to react to it as he was still doing jumping jacks when everyone else ran away.
Regardless all that does is add to Steve's + column because it means only he was smart enough to possibly realise it was a test and not run like a bitch as did everyone else, well everyone but Carter funnily the two most heroic characters in the film are the only two who don't scarper.
Also it's quite an assumption to make even if he had I mean TLJ didn't pull it out his pocket or have it in his hands already he took it from the back of a supply truck, and he certainly didn't think everyone would assume it was a fake seeing his intent was to show up Steve as not having guts, but Steve showed himself to be the only one with any.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2017 4:09:50 GMT
Superman was Zod's judge, jury and executioner. No, he wasn't. Zod was killed while trying to harm an innocent family. That's no different than an armed robber who's holding a hostage getting shot and killed by a cop. The cop wasn't acting as judge, jury, and executioner. The cop was doing his duty to protect innocent lives.
An example of a cop acting as judge, jury, and executioner would be if the armed robber had surrendered and was placed under arrest and then the cop shot the robber in the back of the head. If Zod had surrendered and then Superman killed him, then Superman would've acted as judge, jury, and executioner. But Zod didn't surrender and was trying to harm an innocent family so Superman just used lethal force to stop Zod from harming innocent people, just like when a cop shoots an armed robber who's threatening to kill a hostage. That's not judge, jury, and executioner.
In Cap's situation, Bucky had been arrested. Cap decided that Bucky shouldn't have to stand trial for his crimes and should be set free. So Cap aided and abetted Bucky to escape from the authorities. Cap basically appointed himself judge and jury (just like Stalin, Castro, and Saddam Hussein did). 1 person appointing himself judge and jury - that's often the 1st step towards tyranny.
Actually that would be the case if Superman had no other options, he however had Zod in a headlock, that means he could have tried throwing him down, covering his eyes, flying them away, beating Zod unconscious, applying a choke hold to incapacitate him, he instead went to the lethal option immediately in that moment, Clark did nothing but plead with Zod to stop him which given Superman's abilities gave him far more options than to snap the guys neck, even a police office would likely be seen as using excessive force if he had a guy in a choke hold that had a gun but instead of trying to disarm him made the choice to break their neck.
Ultimately Superman did have no other choice, any action he would take would have eventually required him to kill or basically comatose Zod to stop him from going on a genocidal tear, but still Clark did act as judge and jury, hell he acted that way earlier, he condemned his entire surviving race rather than offer any of them the chance to stand down, sure most of them were likely unwavering sycophants who would stand by Zod regardless but some would have likely if not turned on their own atleast stood down given how following Zod to that points really done them no favours.
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