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Post by taylorfirst1 on Oct 27, 2017 15:48:27 GMT
It's not going to happen. They are now in the same league as Star Wars and James Bond. Every movie attached to the MCU will be a success for the foreseeable future.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 27, 2017 15:52:28 GMT
Saving Private Ryan was pure Oscar Bait. You're a pip. Look, it fits all the Oscar Bait clichés. Tropic Thunder had a field day with these types of films.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 27, 2017 16:12:56 GMT
Look, it fits all the Oscar Bait clichés. Tropic Thunder had a field day with these types of films. Well, it was an extreme example. But I mean. The point stands. Innit? Or it inni?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Oct 27, 2017 18:40:50 GMT
It was asked before but it needs to be asked again. When will critics finally say they've had enough? When does the bubble burst? I mean...if a freaking Thor movie can't kill the streak...what will? I think Marvel is in its glory right now. It would take a lot for the "streak" to break at this point.
Maybe if Avengers 4 is seen as being too big, too many characters, too much CGI, too messy, that could be the start of a down turn. But I doubt it.
I think its more likely that the entire genre, Marvel, DC, all of them, will start to go downward simultaneously, the way westerns did.
I sometimes think we might be better off if we did go back to 1 or 2 super hero movies a year, instead of 4 or 5. Too much of a good thing and all that...
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Post by harpospoke on Oct 27, 2017 19:15:03 GMT
Well first, the idea that critics are somehow unaware that they really don't like Marvel movies is a nice fantasy. But that's just a device to avoid admitting Marvel is doing a good job. Naturally critics, awards, and box office are always wrong when it doesn't support our opinion. But at some point Marvel will stumble. It happens to everyone. That they've gone 17 films in a row without a critical dud is astounding already and is probably a record in Hollywood. Pretty much nothing at this point. Some thought it was going to Guardians of the Galaxy, some thought it was going to be Ant-Man, some thought it was going to be Doctor Strange. Really, after Scott Derrickson of all people delivered, and looking at their upcoming movies and directors, It's safe to say that they won't release a dud for awhile. Oh, and Ant-Man almost burst the bubble. I remember that it started with a 63% when reviews first came. Now it's at 82%. It is pretty amazing. All those examples you cited were risks and predicted to be "this is where Marvel will fail"...and they pulled it off each time. Pretty much nothing at this point. Some thought it was going to Guardians of the Galaxy, some thought it was going to be Ant-Man, some thought it was going to be Doctor Strange. Really, after Scott Derrickson of all people delivered, and looking at their upcoming movies and directors, It's safe to say that they won't release a dud for awhile. Oh, and Ant-Man almost burst the bubble. I remember that it started with a 63% when reviews first came. Now it's at 82%. And if Pixar recovered after ‘Cars 2’, Marvel certainly can. I don't think Pixar did recover. Probably going to get a lot of hate for saying this but a part of me actually hopes that the entire super hero craze bubble burst. Marvel, DC and fox. Both the movies and TV shows. If anything just to give us a period of peace. At least 30 years and then reboot it all. I don't get the logic. It sounds elitist. You don't like a genre so you don't want it to be available to anyone else either? There is this other option I heard about... ...not buying a ticket to movies you don't want to watch? I know it sounds crazy, but it could work. Well, and because we live in a "Rotten Tomatoes" society the scores are laughably immodest. "98%" of people looking back in twenty years will think it's hilarious and trashy and pathetic that we put any of these popcorn movies on this much of a pedestal, culturally or otherwise. And I mean all of it, not just the dreaded MCU. It's GOOFY. When I was growing up nobody took any of this crap seriously. We took shit like Saving Private Ryan seriously. That's not true. "Popcorn movies" are not liked by hipsters, but the general public loves them more than the "Oscar bait" movies. T2 is the best remembered movie of 1991...not all those movies the hipsters love. We tend to remember the comedies more than the dramas most of the time too. Even go back to the 30s....the 2 most remembered movies from 1933 are King Kong and Duck Soup imo. Where are all those "serious" movies?
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Post by blockbusted on Oct 27, 2017 19:41:45 GMT
Well first, the idea that critics are somehow unaware that they really don't like Marvel movies is a nice fantasy. But that's just a device to avoid admitting Marvel is doing a good job. Naturally critics, awards, and box office are always wrong when it doesn't support our opinion. But at some point Marvel will stumble. It happens to everyone. That they've gone 17 films in a row without a critical dud is astounding already and is probably a record in Hollywood. Pretty much nothing at this point. Some thought it was going to Guardians of the Galaxy, some thought it was going to be Ant-Man, some thought it was going to be Doctor Strange. Really, after Scott Derrickson of all people delivered, and looking at their upcoming movies and directors, It's safe to say that they won't release a dud for awhile. Oh, and Ant-Man almost burst the bubble. I remember that it started with a 63% when reviews first came. Now it's at 82%. It is pretty amazing. All those examples you cited were risks and predicted to be "this is where Marvel will fail"...and they pulled it off each time. And if Pixar recovered after ‘Cars 2’, Marvel certainly can. I don't think Pixar did recover. Probably going to get a lot of hate for saying this but a part of me actually hopes that the entire super hero craze bubble burst. Marvel, DC and fox. Both the movies and TV shows. If anything just to give us a period of peace. At least 30 years and then reboot it all. I don't get the logic. It sounds elitist. You don't like a genre so you don't want it to be available to anyone else either? There is this other option I heard about... ...not buying a ticket to movies you don't want to watch? I know it sounds crazy, but it could work. Well, and because we live in a "Rotten Tomatoes" society the scores are laughably immodest. "98%" of people looking back in twenty years will think it's hilarious and trashy and pathetic that we put any of these popcorn movies on this much of a pedestal, culturally or otherwise. And I mean all of it, not just the dreaded MCU. It's GOOFY. When I was growing up nobody took any of this crap seriously. We took shit like Saving Private Ryan seriously. That's not true. "Popcorn movies" are not liked by hipsters, but the general public loves them more than the "Oscar bait" movies. T2 is the best remembered movie of 1991...not all those movies the hipsters love. We tend to remember the comedies more than the dramas most of the time too. Even go back to the 30s....the 2 most remembered movies from 1933 are King Kong and Duck Soup imo. Where are all those "serious" movies? Well... there’s ‘Inside Out’ and ‘Finding Dory’ with possibly ‘Coco’...
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Post by charzhino on Oct 27, 2017 19:50:01 GMT
The general movie going audience are idiots though.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 27, 2017 20:45:41 GMT
Well first, the idea that critics are somehow unaware that they really don't like Marvel movies is a nice fantasy. But that's just a device to avoid admitting Marvel is doing a good job. Naturally critics, awards, and box office are always wrong when it doesn't support our opinion. But at some point Marvel will stumble. It happens to everyone. That they've gone 17 films in a row without a critical dud is astounding already and is probably a record in Hollywood. Pretty much nothing at this point. Some thought it was going to Guardians of the Galaxy, some thought it was going to be Ant-Man, some thought it was going to be Doctor Strange. Really, after Scott Derrickson of all people delivered, and looking at their upcoming movies and directors, It's safe to say that they won't release a dud for awhile. Oh, and Ant-Man almost burst the bubble. I remember that it started with a 63% when reviews first came. Now it's at 82%. It is pretty amazing. All those examples you cited were risks and predicted to be "this is where Marvel will fail"...and they pulled it off each time. And if Pixar recovered after ‘Cars 2’, Marvel certainly can. I don't think Pixar did recover. Probably going to get a lot of hate for saying this but a part of me actually hopes that the entire super hero craze bubble burst. Marvel, DC and fox. Both the movies and TV shows. If anything just to give us a period of peace. At least 30 years and then reboot it all. I don't get the logic. It sounds elitist. You don't like a genre so you don't want it to be available to anyone else either? There is this other option I heard about... ...not buying a ticket to movies you don't want to watch? I know it sounds crazy, but it could work. Well, and because we live in a "Rotten Tomatoes" society the scores are laughably immodest. "98%" of people looking back in twenty years will think it's hilarious and trashy and pathetic that we put any of these popcorn movies on this much of a pedestal, culturally or otherwise. And I mean all of it, not just the dreaded MCU. It's GOOFY. When I was growing up nobody took any of this crap seriously. We took shit like Saving Private Ryan seriously. That's not true. "Popcorn movies" are not liked by hipsters, but the general public loves them more than the "Oscar bait" movies. T2 is the best remembered movie of 1991...not all those movies the hipsters love. We tend to remember the comedies more than the dramas most of the time too. Even go back to the 30s....the 2 most remembered movies from 1933 are King Kong and Duck Soup imo. Where are all those "serious" movies? Available to anyone who's interested in film scholarship and history. I don't think anyone's taken the Oscars away, have they? And besides which your retort didn't even address my concerns. There's a place for popcorn movies and a place for movies with more complex themes and aspirations. One doesn't invalidate the other; my point was that in today's society, it practically has, and your counter argument is that the unwashed masses should've always been the sole barometer of quality. Yeah, no.
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Post by scabab on Oct 27, 2017 20:47:47 GMT
If it's gonna take a hit then it's most likely to happen after Avengers Infinity War 2.
It'll have been over 10 years and 20 movies leading up to that. Once that whole Infinity War saga has been concluded and either Iron Man or Captain America are dead, then people might lose a bit of interest.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 21:45:20 GMT
Marvel continues to pay critics to give their crappy movies good reviews.
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Post by scabab on Oct 27, 2017 22:02:02 GMT
Marvel continues to pay critics to give their crappy movies good reviews. Proof?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 27, 2017 22:15:55 GMT
Marvel continues to pay critics to give their crappy movies good reviews. Proof? Nobody had proof of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, but everyone knew about it for years. "Open secret" in the industry. I suspect this is much the same...
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Post by scabab on Oct 27, 2017 22:38:52 GMT
Nobody had proof of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, but everyone knew about it for years. "Open secret" in the industry. I suspect this is much the same... If it were the same then audience reception wouldn't be equivalently positive. The ones that are often considered the worst MCU movies would be The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man 2, Thor 2 and Ant-man. None of them are bad movies. They're not great either but amongst bad superhero movies none of them could be included. Critics ripped Inhumans to shreds, it's probably gonna be cancelled. They also tore into Iron Fist as well and no coincidence that those two properties audiences don't like.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 27, 2017 22:41:30 GMT
Nobody had proof of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, but everyone knew about it for years. "Open secret" in the industry. I suspect this is much the same... If it were the same then audience reception wouldn't be equivalently positive. The ones that are often considered the worst MCU movies would be The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man 2, Thor 2 and Ant-man. None of them are bad movies. They're not great either but amongst bad superhero movies none of them could be included. Critics ripped Inhumans to shreds, it's probably gonna be cancelled. They also tore into Iron Fist as well and no coincidence that those two properties audiences don't like. I for real don't see how anything you wrote refutes anything I've said. The fact is: when Disney needs a property to deliver at the box office they seem to always get almost laughably high marks (see: Force Awakens, The). In fact Metacritic is often a key indicator of this disparity and often presents a much more realistic picture than RT, which at best is a gross distortion of movie criticism and a detriment to it.
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Post by scabab on Oct 27, 2017 22:56:18 GMT
If it were the same then audience reception wouldn't be equivalently positive. The ones that are often considered the worst MCU movies would be The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man 2, Thor 2 and Ant-man. None of them are bad movies. They're not great either but amongst bad superhero movies none of them could be included. Critics ripped Inhumans to shreds, it's probably gonna be cancelled. They also tore into Iron Fist as well and no coincidence that those two properties audiences don't like. I for real don't see how anything you wrote refutes anything I've said. The fact is: when Disney needs a property to deliver at the box office they seem to always get almost laughably high marks (see: Force Awakens, The). In fact Metacritic is often a key indicator of this disparity and often presents a much more realistic picture than RT, which at best is a gross distortion of movie criticism and a detriment to it. But again The Force Awakens was equivalently liked by audiences as well. On the same website 89% of people liked it. It's actually in the Top 250 movies on IMDB. So the high review scores would seem warranted. Audiences have liked all these Marvel movies and they've all had good reviews. Audiences haven't liked the Transformers movies and they've had bad reviews. That's just how it generally works. There'd be something to this if the movies kept getting great reviews but people weren't liking the movies but that's not happening. Beauty and the Beast was a property that needed to deliver and it doesn't have laughably high marks. It was classed as rotten until the last surge of reviews put it a bit over. Pirates of the Caribbean 5 has a paltry 29%. Last year Alice in Wonderland got a 30%. Cars 3 has a mediocre 68%.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2017 0:02:13 GMT
It was asked before but it needs to be asked again. When will critics finally say they've had enough? When does the bubble burst? I mean...if a freaking Thor movie can't kill the streak...what will? The critics can do fuck themselves. I've loved plenty of films they'd turn their noses up at.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 28, 2017 0:29:22 GMT
I for real don't see how anything you wrote refutes anything I've said. The fact is: when Disney needs a property to deliver at the box office they seem to always get almost laughably high marks (see: Force Awakens, The). In fact Metacritic is often a key indicator of this disparity and often presents a much more realistic picture than RT, which at best is a gross distortion of movie criticism and a detriment to it. But again The Force Awakens was equivalently liked by audiences as well. On the same website 89% of people liked it. It's actually in the Top 250 movies on IMDB. So the high review scores would seem warranted. Audiences have liked all these Marvel movies and they've all had good reviews. Audiences haven't liked the Transformers movies and they've had bad reviews. That's just how it generally works. There'd be something to this if the movies kept getting great reviews but people weren't liking the movies but that's not happening. Beauty and the Beast was a property that needed to deliver and it doesn't have laughably high marks. It was classed as rotten until the last surge of reviews put it a bit over. Pirates of the Caribbean 5 has a paltry 29%. Last year Alice in Wonderland got a 30%. Cars 3 has a mediocre 68%. Clearly, they deliberately tanked those multi-million dollar franchises to derail keen-eyed conspiracy theorists like myself from catching them dead to rights and to give some cover to their massive and corrupt schemes and scams.
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Post by harpospoke on Oct 28, 2017 1:58:47 GMT
I don't think Pixar did recover. Well... there’s ‘Inside Out’ and ‘Finding Dory’ with possibly ‘Coco’... True. But they seem to have settled into a slightly less lofty plateau than before. Instead of every movie being among the best in the history of animation, they seem to be alternating between really good to ok to great.
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Post by harpospoke on Oct 28, 2017 2:08:45 GMT
That's not true. "Popcorn movies" are not liked by hipsters, but the general public loves them more than the "Oscar bait" movies. T2 is the best remembered movie of 1991...not all those movies the hipsters love. We tend to remember the comedies more than the dramas most of the time too. Even go back to the 30s....the 2 most remembered movies from 1933 are King Kong and Duck Soup imo. Where are all those "serious" movies? Available to anyone who's interested in film scholarship and history. I don't think anyone's taken the Oscars away, have they? And besides which your retort didn't even address my concerns. There's a place for popcorn movies and a place for movies with more complex themes and aspirations. One doesn't invalidate the other; my point was that in today's society, it practically has, and your counter argument is that the unwashed masses should've always been the sole barometer of quality. Yeah, no. I'm aware of the fact that the Academy gives out awards to movies that are frequently forgotten. No one said they should take the award away just because the movie has been relegated to the dustbin of history. They should have never started giving out awards for art in first place because there is no such thing as quality in art. The public likes what they like and that doesn't determine quality either. You or I can just as easily dislike a popular movie as an unpopular movie...and we would be right either way. If you have a measurement for quality in art I would love to see it. But of course every possible measurement has been tried and they always fail. Once again next year we will hear everyone disagree with the choices of the Academy ...just like every year. That's because there is no way to measure art. Go ahead an offer up "critics" as if that proves anything. All I have to do is ask you if you agree with critics every time or not. Rank your favorites from any year and see if the critics agree with your ranking. You obviously will not be able to do that. No one does...because there is no such thing as "better" in art. No two critics can even come up with the same ranking. There have been 592 movies released this year so far. Your claim that there is no longer a place for Oscar bait movies or hipster movies has no basis in fact. Obviously there are more than enough movies for every taste.
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Post by blockbusted on Oct 28, 2017 2:11:34 GMT
Well... there’s ‘Inside Out’ and ‘Finding Dory’ with possibly ‘Coco’... True. But they seem to have settled into a slightly less lofty plateau than before. Instead of every movie being among the best in the history of animation, they seem to be alternating between really good to ok to great. To be fair, an era that is represented by 'Ratatouille' to 'Toy Story 3' was bit of an unusual era even for Pixar. Case in point, a lot of people will say that 'A Bug's Life' isn't quite on par with early Pixar classics. Also, 'The Good Dinosaur' got into nasty production issues and 'Cars 3' is... well... a 'Cars' film.
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