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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 30, 2017 15:17:44 GMT
The conversation between Varys and Illyrio Arya overheard when hiding in a dragon skull revealed that Varys played a secret game and was waiting for Viserys and the Dothraki to invade but it also gave another hint:
Illyrio : "What good is war now? We're not ready. If one Hand can die, why not a second?"
Varys: "This Hand is not the other."
Illyrio not only knows Jon Arryn was murdered, he talks about it in a way which implies Varys was an active agent in it and openly asks him why he cannot do it again. Varys doesn't deny it but says it would not be as easy.
I have long thought Varys, who "impossibly" knew that a poison that leaves no trace was used, had been involved and this ought to be confirmation enough. The only riddle left is why he gave Ned Stark information which should have made him suspicious. Was it an IQ test?
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Oct 30, 2017 20:07:06 GMT
The conversation between Varys and Illyrio Arya overheard when hiding in a dragon skull revealed that Varys played a secret game and was waiting for Viserys and the Dothraki to invade but it also gave another hint: Illyrio : "What good is war now? We're not ready. If one Hand can die, why not a second?" Varys: "This Hand is not the other." Illyrio not only knows Jon Arryn was murdered, he talks about it in a way which implies Varys was an active agent in it and openly asks him why he cannot do it again. Varys doesn't deny it but says it would not be as easy. I have long thought Varys, who "impossibly" knew that a poison that leaves no trace was used, had been involved and this ought to be confirmation enough. The only riddle left is why he gave Ned Stark information which should have made him suspicious. Was it an IQ test? Illyrio simply notes that Jon Arryn died and suggests that could happen to Ned Stark too. Without arranging it or even having knowledge of the perpetrator, that death was still fortuitous for his plans with Varys and wanting that to happen again is not unnatural, though it does appear he's suggesting Varys be more proactive regarding Ned Stark which Varys quickly shuts down. As I recall the poison used on Jon Arryn was the 'Tears of Lys.' Varys is from Lys and otherwise relatively healthy people whose demise would be helpful to others suddenly taking ill and dying might be all the trace he needs. That they don't die with purple faces and foaming at the mouth might be all he meant by 'no trace'--but being from Lys he knows what it usually means when someone falls ill and dies so suddenly when their death would be convenient to powerful people. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Oct 30, 2017 21:31:07 GMT
Leo of Red Keep Marendil Illyrio is a very interesting character to me always involved I wonder if we see him again , he arranged the Drogo / Daenyrys marriage and had the targaryens as guests I'm sure he knew viserys was a nutcase ,and now that Dany and her team are going north will arya remember Varys ? I have a feeling Varys in the end will be accused of betrayal have this feeling and melisandre already predicted his death
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 30, 2017 21:37:39 GMT
Leo of Red Keep Marendil Illyrio is a very interesting character to me always involved I wonder if we see him again , he arranged the Drogo / Daenyrys marriage and had the targaryens as guests I'm sure he knew viserys was a nutcase ,and now that Dany and her team are going north will arya remember Varys ? I have a feeling Varys in the end will be accused of betrayal have this feeling and melisandre already predicted his death I think you're right. Mel talks about foreigners and having to die in a strange land. Well, Dany is a "foreigner" to them. She was raised across the sea in Essos. More than likely, Dany's paranoia will get the better of her when it comes to Varys. |
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 30, 2017 21:38:58 GMT
Part of me hopes they'll bring him back in the show. The other part of me feels like they will give him a quick, unmoving death if they do though...
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Oct 31, 2017 12:43:13 GMT
Part of me hopes they'll bring him back in the show. The other part of me feels like they will give him a quick, unmoving death if they do though... Most likely , but they will bring him back especially to reveal to the others the alliance he has with Varys I think they wanted the targaryens to restore their reign but ultimately for them to be in power |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 31, 2017 13:46:14 GMT
Part of me hopes they'll bring him back in the show. The other part of me feels like they will give him a quick, unmoving death if they do though... Most likely , but they will bring him back especially to reveal to the others the alliance he has with Varys I think they wanted the targaryens to restore their reign but ultimately for them to be in power I doubt you'll see Illyrio again. He has a more important role in the books because of the Aegon story-line, in which he and Varys are not supporting Daenerys but another Targaryen they have groomed. Varys might be the instrument used to mark a switch in Daenerys, the moment when she crosses a line if she has him killed. It would drive the point home that personal power is a danger in any hand, no matter how smiling, exalting or well-meaning. After all, haven't most revolutionaries eliminated those who helped them seize power at some point? Stalin and Hitler have cleaned around themselves quite a bit and I won't even mention Robespierre. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Oct 31, 2017 20:24:35 GMT
Most likely , but they will bring him back especially to reveal to the others the alliance he has with Varys I think they wanted the targaryens to restore their reign but ultimately for them to be in power I doubt you'll see Illyrio again. He has a more important role in the books because of the Aegon story-line, in which he and Varys are not supporting Daenerys but another Targaryen they have groomed. Varys might be the instrument used to mark a switch in Daenerys, the moment when she crosses a line if she has him killed. It would drive the point home that personal power is a danger in any hand, no matter how smiling, exalting or well-meaning. After all, haven't most revolutionaries eliminated those who helped them seize power at some point? Stalin and Hitler have cleaned around themselves quite a bit and I won't even mention Robespierre. That's enough proof for me then , if Varys is supporting fake Aaegon Targaryen in books this tells me he will turn against daenyrys at some point and it's matter of time convincing Tyrion to do the same , will come down to two targaryens Jon /Dany and who they support I think Jon has a way winning supporters where Dany has proven she can't keep them for long |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 1, 2017 2:51:00 GMT
That's enough proof for me then , if Varys is supporting fake Aaegon Targaryen in books this tells me he will turn against daenyrys at some point and it's matter of time convincing Tyrion to do the same , will come down to two targaryens Jon /Dany and who they support I think Jon has a way winning supporters where Dany has proven she can't keep them for long Then Jon will die again  |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 1, 2017 16:36:25 GMT
That's enough proof for me then , if Varys is supporting fake Aaegon Targaryen in books this tells me he will turn against daenyrys at some point and it's matter of time convincing Tyrion to do the same , will come down to two targaryens Jon /Dany and who they support I think Jon has a way winning supporters where Dany has proven she can't keep them for long Then Jon will die again you just ruined my entire theory lol he wint die again ,makes no sense to kill him again it's like you agreeing with these fake leaks , Jon dying in some explosive fire , if anything he may come close dying but I think he may be seriously hurt . |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 1, 2017 17:00:38 GMT
Then Jon will die again you just ruined my entire theory lol he wint die again ,makes no sense to kill him again it's like you agreeing with these fake leaks , Jon dying in some explosive fire , if anything he may come close dying but I think he may be seriously hurt . Of course it makes sense to kill him again. It will break viewer's hearts and that's all the writers are out for. Sorry… |
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Post by DSDSquared on Nov 2, 2017 17:53:41 GMT
He might have known he was murdered, or at least highly suspected. He is the Master of Whisperers after all.
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