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Post by Aj_June on Nov 5, 2017 8:54:19 GMT
**Spoilers from books**
Just revisited a scene from season 1 episode 2.
In the show there is a scene in episode 2 of season 1 in which Cersei tries to soothe the wounds of ailing mother Lady Catelyn when Bran was battling for his life. She tells her how she was terribly upset at death of her first born from Robert. I find this rather stupid because in the books the Lannister woman had no child from Robert. She usually did in Robert with oral sex but there was one time when she got pregnant. Evil that she was she opted for abortion (now don't call me a pro-life creep as there is a reason why I found this particular abortion abominable) and ended her would be child by drinking moon tea.
So the question is were the feelings of Cersei in this scene true or she was just so scared that she came to visit Lady Stark to know if Bran was about to die or not? I really can't make a conclusive answer.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 5, 2017 14:05:33 GMT
Cersei doesn't act. It is beneath her.
She is straightforward, blunt and if you don't like her, it will be at your own cost. She is the queen and you're not.
She will keep all the forms and be as diplomatic as required but she will not stoop to fake feelings or invent stories. The only "lie" in this scene is when she says she prays to the Mother. We'll know later what she thinks of praying to the gods and she is using a common form of speech to express a wish. She will not "pray to the Mother", but we may believe that she does wish for Bran to survive, in spite of the danger it implies. It might even be a way of sharing cultural similarities with Catelyn at this point, whom we know is a bit of a religious outsider in Winterfell, a point the latter addressed herself in her scene with Ned in the Godswood.
The books are a pile of crap written by a belated teenager and book-Cersei is a caricature. The show fixed that. The story of her relation to Robert was made believable and this scene presents a part of it.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Nov 5, 2017 20:25:12 GMT
So the question is were the feelings of Cersei in this scene true or she was just so scared that she came to visit Lady Stark to know if Bran was about to die or not? I really can't make a conclusive answer. With the books, she goes there with wanting to find out how the boy is doing. She doesn't go there so much for concern for his well-being, but her own. Once she's there though, her story is truthful and honest. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 7, 2017 23:45:01 GMT
**Spoilers from books** Just revisited a scene from season 1 episode 2. In the show there is a scene in episode 2 of season 1 in which Cersei tries to soothe the wounds of ailing mother Lady Catelyn when Bran was battling for his life. She tells her how she was terribly upset at death of her first born from Robert. I find this rather stupid because in the books the Lannister woman had no child from Robert. She usually did in Robert with oral sex but there was one time when she got pregnant. Evil that she was she opted for abortion (now don't call me a pro-life creep as there is a reason why I found this particular abortion abominable) and ended her would be child by drinking moon tea. So the question is were the feelings of Cersei in this scene true or she was just so scared that she came to visit Lady Stark to know if Bran was about to die or not? I really can't make a conclusive answer. I thought she was being honest and I think she felt guilt she showed concern but she was also trying to cover up ,I wonder if cersei was near bran when he was pushed out of the window would cersei do what Jamie dI'd ? Or do something else ? there is strong rumor Gendry is cerseis and Roberts son Gendry often mentioned only thing he knows about his mother she had yellow hair . |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 9, 2017 10:48:48 GMT
I wonder if cersei was near bran when he was pushed out of the window would cersei do what Jamie dI'd ? Or do something else ? there is strong rumor Gendry is cerseis and Roberts son Gendry often mentioned only thing he knows about his mother she had yellow hair . She wouldn't have done it. She scolded Jaime for it. The rumour is brainless nonsense. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 9, 2017 22:54:02 GMT
I wonder if cersei was near bran when he was pushed out of the window would cersei do what Jamie dI'd ? Or do something else ? there is strong rumor Gendry is cerseis and Roberts son Gendry often mentioned only thing he knows about his mother she had yellow hair . She wouldn't have done it. She scolded Jaime for it. The rumour is brainless nonsense. Maybe not brainless , it could work in favor of your theory lannisters staying in power . |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 10, 2017 9:45:30 GMT
She wouldn't have done it. She scolded Jaime for it. The rumour is brainless nonsense. Maybe not brainless , it could work in favor of your theory lannisters staying in power . No, it wouldn't and it is brainless because no one would ever have had an interest in hiding Robert's legitimate heir. This "speculation" is the result of terminal stupidity. Typical GoT fan garbage. |
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Post by Marv on Nov 20, 2017 12:00:50 GMT
I took her story as legitimate. I think show Cersei was a little more empathetic from the get go. When she explains how she went from potential bride to a Targaryen to bride of Robert, and how he wasn't exactly what she'd hoped for but she planned to make the best of it initially. I took those words as true. I get the notion she did want to live that glorious life as a Queen she dreamt about as a child but soon enough she really that those were only dreams and not close at all to reality.
I think that's why she's so cruel to Sansa...because Cersei sees her younger self in her.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 20, 2017 15:06:55 GMT
I took her story as legitimate. I think show Cersei was a little more empathetic from the get go. When she explains how she went from potential bride to a Targaryen to bride of Robert, and how he wasn't exactly what she'd hoped for but she planned to make the best of it initially. I took those words as true. I get the notion she did want to live that glorious life as a Queen she dreamt about as a child but soon enough she really that those were only dreams and not close at all to reality. I think that's why she's so cruel to Sansa...because Cersei sees her younger self in her. That's a very good analysis, Merv. I also felt that the show Cersei is not just a little more empathetic but also a little more realistic. No wonder Leo gets disgusted when we bring book cersei. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 24, 2017 5:49:02 GMT
I took her story as legitimate. I think show Cersei was a little more empathetic from the get go. When she explains how she went from potential bride to a Targaryen to bride of Robert, and how he wasn't exactly what she'd hoped for but she planned to make the best of it initially. I took those words as true. I get the notion she did want to live that glorious life as a Queen she dreamt about as a child but soon enough she really that those were only dreams and not close at all to reality. I think that's why she's so cruel to Sansa...because Cersei sees her younger self in her. That's a very good analysis, Merv. I also felt that the show Cersei is not just a little more empathetic but also a little more realistic. No wonder Leo gets disgusted when we bring book cersei. Cersei wasn't cruel to Sansa and the proper word is sympathetic. She did try to be good to her, she just wasn't very good at it. Empathy is something else. Ramsay has empathy, that's how he knows how he can hurt and manipulate. I find much of GRRM's stuff disgusting, by the way. The man is a definition of tastelessness. |
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Seto
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Post by Seto on May 31, 2018 8:05:25 GMT
As far as the show continuity goes she is NOT lying. Later in the first season there is a show only scene between her and Robert addressing their first born child.
I suspect D&D made this change from the books to emphasise Lena Heady's ability to act motherly. Even though it doesn't make much sense, considering the show kept the line about Robert whispering Lyanna's name on their wedding night.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 31, 2018 9:06:38 GMT
As far as the show continuity goes she is NOT lying. Later in the first season there is a show only scene between her and Robert addressing their first born child. I suspect D&D made this change from the books to emphasise Lena Heady's ability to act motherly. Even though it doesn't make much sense, considering the show kept the line about Robert whispering Lyanna's name on their wedding night. The show made this change to upgrade the childish caricature of the books to a more realistic character. Robert's continued infatuation with his lost love is not in contradiction with Cersei's behaviour. Quite often, the obstacles to a functioning relationship are visible at the onset but are not recognised as such. Cersei only realised later on that this would never change and Robert himself admitted he failed at it: "seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind." We are very far from the original crap of the books here. |
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Jun 4, 2018 10:50:58 GMT
The show made this change to upgrade the childish caricature of the books to a more realistic character. Robert's continued infatuation with his lost love is not in contradiction with Cersei's behaviour. Quite often, the obstacles to a functioning relationship are visible at the onset but are not recognised as such. Cersei only realised later on that this would never change and Robert himself admitted he failed at it: "seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind." We are very far from the original crap of the books here. Ummm no. D&D have constantly maintained their great admiration for the novels and always set out to make a faithful adaptation of them. Characterisations only began deviating from the text after the actors were cast, as D&D love showing off their actors above everything else. There is definitely no attempt to improve the "original crap" of the books. I'm not sure how your reading into "Cersei only realised later on" about Robert's drunken lust for Lyanna and not her. Watch this scene, it makes it abundantly clear that it was their wedding night that Cersei realised what Robert was, and has held a grudge against him ever since. Now couple this scene with the idea of Cersei and Robert having a child together and it just doesn't make sense. Also lets not forget that this son is completely forgotten by season 5, with the introduction of the Maggie the Frog prophecy. The show definitely does not adhere to its own continuity or internal logic. Unlike the books, which depicts the depth of the characters flawlessly. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 4, 2018 13:36:35 GMT
The show made this change to upgrade the childish caricature of the books to a more realistic character. Robert's continued infatuation with his lost love is not in contradiction with Cersei's behaviour. Quite often, the obstacles to a functioning relationship are visible at the onset but are not recognised as such. Cersei only realised later on that this would never change and Robert himself admitted he failed at it: "seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind." We are very far from the original crap of the books here. Ummm no. D&D have constantly maintained their great admiration for the novels and always set out to make a faithful adaptation of them. Characterisations only began deviating from the text after the actors were cast, as D&D love showing off their actors above everything else. There is definitely no attempt to improve the "original crap" of the books. I'm not sure how your reading into "Cersei only realised later on" about Robert's drunken lust for Lyanna and not her. Watch this scene, it makes it abundantly clear that it was their wedding night that Cersei realised what Robert was, and has held a grudge against him ever since. Now couple this scene with the idea of Cersei and Robert having a child together and it just doesn't make sense. Also lets not forget that this son is completely forgotten by season 5, with the introduction of the Maggie the Frog prophecy. The show definitely does not adhere to its own continuity or internal logic. Unlike the books, which depicts the depth of the characters flawlessly. And there is that other scene in which Cersei tells Robert she "felt something for him once, for quite a while actually", which is the basis for my interpretation. But anyway, when I write "Cersei only realised later on that this would never change" and you understand "Cersei only realised later on about Robert's drunken lust", there is little point discussing with you. The three children of the "prophecy" are those who survived infancy, by the way. There is no inconsistency there. |
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Jun 4, 2018 14:06:48 GMT
The three children of the "prophecy" are those who survived infancy, by the way. When is that established?? |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 5, 2018 6:44:44 GMT
The three children of the "prophecy" are those who survived infancy, by the way. When is that established?? That's just plain logic. Early deaths are like stillborns. There is no need to "establish" it but Gilly telling Sam there's no point naming her son because he'll be given to White Walkers and half-insane Selyse Baratheon giving names to embryos in jars goes this way. |
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Jun 5, 2018 8:28:14 GMT
That's just plain logic. Early deaths are like stillborns. There is no need to "establish" it but Gilly telling Sam there's no point naming her son because he'll be given to White Walkers and half-insane Selyse Baratheon giving names to embryos in jars goes this way. Right, its never established. Your just reading whatever you want into it. Somehow the Wildling custom of not naming their children until they turn two, translates to Maggy the Frog prophecy being "You will give birth to three children (that will live passed infancy)."  Honestly you've never struck me as a massive show defender in your other posts. I think your just contradicting me for the sake of it aren't you? |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 5, 2018 8:45:38 GMT
That's just plain logic. Early deaths are like stillborns. There is no need to "establish" it but Gilly telling Sam there's no point naming her son because he'll be given to White Walkers and half-insane Selyse Baratheon giving names to embryos in jars goes this way. Right, its never established. Your just reading whatever you want into it. Somehow the Wildling custom of not naming their children until they turn two, translates to Maggy the Frog prophecy being "You will give birth to three children (that will live passed infancy)." Honestly you've never struck me as a massive show defender in your other posts. I think your just contradicting me for the sake of it aren't you? I am applying normal logic. You're just a book wanker refusing to see the obvious. The show turned to crap with Season 6 (it started to rot a little earlier). The earlier ones were better than the books in terms of characters. |
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