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Post by HorrorMetal on Nov 20, 2017 5:37:20 GMT
Great review, you brought up some very good points which I agree with. I also thought it was slightly better than Ragnarok, which I liked a whole lot. I really enjoyed Justice League, mostly because it ACTUALLY FELT like a superhero movie and all the characters were done very well and they had great chemistry. It's probably my favorite of the DCEU so far, definitely an improvement over some of the others. Some of the criticisms this movie is getting are still valid, however I don't care because it was just so awesome seeing all these superheroes come to life on the big screen together for the first time. It does lose points for omitting Green Lantern, though.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 20, 2017 6:07:17 GMT
I just have one question. Is the shot of Aquaman slamming down the bottle of Jack while the waves crash into him in the movie or not? The only reason I ask this is because that was my favorite shot of any of the trailers I saw and then the later trailers didn't make me think that Aquaman we were seeing was that same character from the early trailer. My thinking is that it may have gotten scrapped when Whedon took it over and made him a lot more light hearted. Yes, that's in the movie.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 20, 2017 6:08:21 GMT
Great review, you brought up some very good points which I agree with. I also thought it was better than Ragnarok, which I liked a whole lot. I really enjoyed Justice League, mostly because it ACTUALLY FELT like a superhero movie and all the characters were done very well and they had great chemistry. It's probably my favorite of the DCEU so far, definitely an improvement over some of the others. Some of the criticisms this movie is getting are still valid, however I don't care because it was just so awesome seeing all these superheroes come to life on the big screen together for the first time. It does lose points for omitting Green Lantern, though. Agreed. JL is definitely better than Ragnarok. The chemistry between the characters was great.
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Post by merh on Nov 20, 2017 7:57:05 GMT
I just have one question. Is the shot of Aquaman slamming down the bottle of Jack while the waves crash into him in the movie or not? The only reason I ask this is because that was my favorite shot of any of the trailers I saw and then the later trailers didn't make me think that Aquaman we were seeing was that same character from the early trailer. My thinking is that it may have gotten scrapped when Whedon took it over and made him a lot more light hearted. Why would you imagine after rescuing a sailor from a boat, Curry didn't grab a bottle, say it's on the guy he just rescued & walk out of the bar?
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Post by merh on Nov 20, 2017 7:58:08 GMT
Great review, you brought up some very good points which I agree with. I also thought it was slightly better than Ragnarok, which I liked a whole lot. I really enjoyed Justice League, mostly because it ACTUALLY FELT like a superhero movie and all the characters were done very well and they had great chemistry. It's probably my favorite of the DCEU so far, definitely an improvement over some of the others. Some of the criticisms this movie is getting are still valid, however I don't care because it was just so awesome seeing all these superheroes come to life on the big screen together for the first time. It does lose points for omitting Green Lantern, though. There were green lanterns in it.
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Nov 20, 2017 8:09:50 GMT
Merh, I understand many like Cyborg as a teen titan, and that is perfectly fine. However, he has recently been a founding member of the Justice League. So, you cant please everyone.
As for Steppenwolf being run out rather easy in the past, that seem at least to me because his opponents were united. Which doesn't happen this time really til Superman is back at 100 percent.
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Nov 20, 2017 8:11:21 GMT
Merh, I understand many like Cyborg as a teen titan, and that is perfectly fine. However, he has recently been a founding member of the Justice League. So, you cant please everyone. As for Steppenwolf being run out in the past, that seems at least to me because his opponents were united. Which doesn't happen this time really til Superman is back at 100 percent.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 20, 2017 8:18:16 GMT
Merh, I understand many like Cyborg as a teen titan, and that is perfectly fine. However, he has recently been a founding member of the Justice League. So, you cant please everyone. As for Steppenwolf being run out rather easy in the past, that seem at least to me because his opponents were united. Which doesn't happen this time really til Superman is back at 100 percent. Yes, the Amazons, Atlanteans, and all the tribes of man were united and even had help from several of the Olympian Gods, including Zeus himself. Compare that to the Chitauri. All it took was 1 nuclear missile from the military to defeat the Chitauri. That's really weak.
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Post by merh on Nov 20, 2017 8:45:11 GMT
What I didn't enjoy: While I did like the recruitment scenes, you could tell they were trimmed down. I wouldn't say poorly edited, but you could just feel there was something else there but they didn't show it. They were too meandering. I was not drawn into the story. One has xx amount of minutes in a movie. The time should be well spent, have a payout. The whole if there's a gun in the Act One, it must be used by the climax. Had they tightened up the recruitment, we might have gotten more Supes. Sorry. He was the bright point of this thing & we barely get him. . Good. Bad. I don't know. He was a bad character. Enchantress was bad. Too powerful. Same here. We were told in WW how amazing the Amazon's were yet Steppenwolf cut through them like they were nothing. He pretty much gets the cosmic cubes with ease. They might as well have gift wrapped them for him. Marvel has been building to Infinity War since 2012/Avengers. Hell, take it back a year to Thor & First Avenger for the cube Should DC be going for the same damned plot of alien/god taking over earth? What is wrong with Lex Luthor being Lex Luthor? DC is known for its villains so why not draw from that? Brainiac, for example, could have been a good foe. Would have been nice not to take out Supes in the last movie. Totally unnecessary. They didn't need Doomsday. Why do they go 0 to 60? Build momentum. The first part dragged it down. That side was 3 or 4. A 2 that rose to a 4 here & then. The Supes bit. Part of the team were for it (Bats pushed it. Cyborg said it could work-shades of Stark & Banner/Vision. WW opposed-Cap's team. They failed to come to blows like in Ultron) I mean, we need a bolt of lightning to pull it off? Like Thor with Mjolnir providing the spark for Vision? The whole Vision vs the team. We should want to cheer. We should feel some apprehension the team might fail. There should be heart. We should care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 8:54:42 GMT
Merh, I understand many like Cyborg as a teen titan, and that is perfectly fine. However, he has recently been a founding member of the Justice League. So, you cant please everyone. As for Steppenwolf being run out rather easy in the past, that seem at least to me because his opponents were united. Which doesn't happen this time really til Superman is back at 100 percent. Yes, the Amazons, Atlanteans, and all the tribes of man were united and even had help from several of the Olympian Gods, including Zeus himself. Compare that to the Chitauri. All it took was 1 nuclear missile from the military to defeat the Chitauri. That's really weak. And yet it'll fail to make $1.5+ billion like Avengers did, even with five years worth of inflation and the most the famous superheroes of all time in it. Must eat you up inside to know that Marvel's beaten them at their own game at every turn. Hell, they're even getting their asses handed to them by Thor.
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Post by merh on Nov 20, 2017 8:55:49 GMT
Merh, I understand many like Cyborg as a teen titan, and that is perfectly fine. However, he has recently been a founding member of the Justice League. So, you cant please everyone. As for Steppenwolf being run out rather easy in the past, that seem at least to me because his opponents were united. Which doesn't happen this time really til Superman is back at 100 percent. I don't care if he's a founding member of JL. I protest the brooding. Not everyone who goes through a major life change turns it into a sulkfest. There are those who take the lemons & make lemoncake. Victor in Titans had a lighter personality. That would have been a nice inclusion into the team. What's with the he can't control his powers? Maybe time could have been spent letting Bats try to mentor him. Get a grasp on his tech. The whole "I can't control myself" was oddly placed in one of the founding team members. And how did I know when told to save one person Flash would save that one?
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Post by merh on Nov 20, 2017 8:59:17 GMT
Merh, I understand many like Cyborg as a teen titan, and that is perfectly fine. However, he has recently been a founding member of the Justice League. So, you cant please everyone. As for Steppenwolf being run out rather easy in the past, that seem at least to me because his opponents were united. Which doesn't happen this time really til Superman is back at 100 percent. Yes, the Amazons, Atlanteans, and all the tribes of man were united and even had help from several of the Olympian Gods, including Zeus himself. Compare that to the Chitauri. All it took was 1 nuclear missile from the military to defeat the Chitauri. That's really weak. All it took was nuking the mothership. Sorta like WW saying once Steppenwolf was defeated, the parademons all fell. Like the Chitauri.
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Nov 20, 2017 9:12:17 GMT
We all knew you weren't going to like it merh. I'm okay with that. Just don't try to change my opinion and force the MCU standard on me. Just because I enjoy their movies as well doesn't mean I also agree with all of their decisions.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 20, 2017 9:21:20 GMT
We were told in WW how amazing the Amazon's were yet Steppenwolf cut through them like they were nothing. He pretty much gets the cosmic cubes with ease. When was it ever said in Wonder Woman that the Amazons are Gods? NEVER! You mnetioned Wonder Woman but you obviously never saw Wonder Woman because you don't seem to remember that Ares said that only a God can defeat another God. The Amazons (except for Diana, who wasn't born yet a the time of the 1st battle against Steppenwolf) aren't Gods. Even Hippolyta isn't a God. Steppenwolf is a New God. That's why the Amazons, Atlanteans, and all the tribes of men still needed help from the Olympian Gods, including Zeus himself, to defeat Steppenwolf the 1st time. Marvel has been building to Infinity War since 2012/Avengers. Hell, take it back a year to Thor & First Avenger for the cube And Infinity War will probably suck. We should want to cheer. There should be heart. We should care And there was all of that for Justice League, but none of that for The Avengers. All it took was nuking the mothership. Sorta like WW saying once Steppenwolf was defeated, the parademons all fell. Like the Chitauri. It took the combined powers of several JL members to defeat Steppenwolf. Al it took was 1 nuclear missile from the military to defeat the Chitauri. That's really weak.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 20, 2017 9:26:34 GMT
We all knew you weren't going to like it merh. I'm okay with that. Just don't try to change my opinion and force the MCU standard on me. Just because I enjoy their movies as well front mean I also agree with all of their decisions. That's typical of MCU fans. MCU fans are always trying to force MCU stereotypes on everyone:
"You can only build a shared universe with bunch of solo movies first like MCU did and can't build a shared universe any other way."
"You have to make the movie full of jokes and 1-liners and make war a big joke."
"You have to have weak villains who aren't a threat so that the heroes don't look too weak and helpless against the villain."
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 20, 2017 10:30:03 GMT
Ragnarok doesn't take its threat seriously in my opinion. And its my opinion, so please, take your nonsense elsewhere for crying outloud. You actually act like I'm giving JL an Oscar and Ragnarok a Razzie. Elfman has been a shell of himself for well over a decade now. But he proved me wrong in large part. Ragnarok is actually the lowest rated of the 3 Thor movies for me-9, but that's issues with the character. Jokes that don't fit the character. Really? I already think that the Thor movies are the weakest of the MCU films along with the Incredible Hulk to a point that I prefer BVS despite all it's problems to either the first or the second Thor. Finding out that Ragnarok can be worse than the Dark World is disappointing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 20, 2017 12:47:06 GMT
When was it ever said in Wonder Woman that the Amazons are Gods? NEVER! It was stated that Zeus made them to defend the world...they suck at it. He was lying. The Gods made that up because they didn't want anyone TRYING to kill them. People have been saying that about every MCU movie, and they've been wrong every time. Got it backwards. No, Superman did it pretty handily on his own. Only the first wave of Chitauri were stopped, it allowed them to close the portal. Steppenwolf was stopped...because he got scared. What a wimp.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 20, 2017 12:50:19 GMT
That's typical of MCU fans. MCU fans are always trying to force MCU stereotypes on everyone: No, we just want good movies. DC's failures bring down the genre as a whole. Just like they did 20 year ago with Batman and Robin. So far, that's actually factual. MCU never did that, they just forget that people act like people and not a bunch of brooders. Savings Private Ryan had jokes. DC was doing long before anyone else.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 20, 2017 13:02:16 GMT
I posted my thoughts on the Marvel board the other day, may as well share them here as well:
Overall, I thought it was fantastic. The character dynamic on the team was outstanding and the action sequences were pretty snappy as well. The first maybe 1/3 of the film felt rushed, quickly introducing the characters and hastily throwing them together. Steppenwolf in Atlantis, with the Amazons, etc. Just a lot going on with very little focus. And I really could've don without the classic Snyderism on display in the film's opening; a gloomy song accompanying a montage of hate and hopelessness. Luckily it moved away from this tone quickly and never looked back.
Going in I hoped to be pleasantly surprised; and it exceeded my expectations to say the least. Its biggest triumph being that it moves away from this awful 'grim & gritty' Snyder tone and breathes life into the dark and spiritually empty DCEU. Superman felt like Superman for the first time in this current iteration of the character. Finally, the heroes actually wanted to be heroes.
Affleck was solid, Cavill got to smile for once, and Gal just kept doing what she's been doing and nailing it. I've never cared for the Flash one way or the other, but this lovable goofball version of the character really worked for me. I don't know how true to the comics Aquabro was, but I dig him. And of course you knew JK Simmons would make a good Gordon.
Maybe the biggest surprise for me was Cyborg. Another character I don't have a ton of experience with, I was expecting him to be generic as hell. I mean he's a cyborg named Cyborg; and the character concept screams 'token black guy.' "I know DC has better black characters, why didn't they use one," I thought coming in. I couldn't have been more wrong. He was perhaps the most nuanced character in the entire film, and even though he could be brooding at times, there was a humanity to him that felt genuine for a movie character. He laughed, he was blunt when communicating; he was honest. He was real. I'm not familiar with the actor either, but whatever they were looking for with this role, I now understand why they gave it to Ray Fisher. He crushed it. The biggest compliment I can give JL is that coming into it I had no interest in Cyborg or Aquaman and now I would absolutely watch either of their solo films.
The movie isn't perfect. As I said earlier, it's all over the map early on, but cleans up nicely down the stretch. The resurrection of Superman comes about all of the sudden and happens so quickly it doesn't feel entirely earned. That being said, I wouldn't want them to devote a 45 minute side quest to it during the film so this was preferable. And the battle that followed was comic nerd bliss so no complaints there. (though I will say one reason I was never a huge Supes fan was on display in the fight sequence. The guy is a one man wrecking crew. He can do everything they can do and then some, there's no point to a team when one character has such a ridiculous power set. I'll touch on this again in a minute.)
The villain is bland, but no different from 70% of comic book villains, so no harm there. This is the heroes' story, not his. He at least felt like a credible threat until Superman joined the fray. I had to chuckle at the writers when they had Superman mop the floor with Steppenwolf and then decide to go help civilians, essentially because if he sticks around the movie is over. I mean Supes laughs the guy off upon his return. "Is this guy still bothering you," as he pummels Steppenwolf without breaking a sweat. And considering Clark has literally just returned from the dead, the audience knows he has the thickest plot armor in history, even for a comic book franchise film.
Other nitpicks include Bruce being a prick to WW for no reason. I don't see how insulting her dead boyfriend is supposed to motivate her to lead or whatever. Flash is injured in one scene (he had to be dragged out by Batman) and then starts zipping around the Batcave in the very next scene as if nothing happened. Various characters refer to Bruce as Batman in front of strangers on the street, multiple times. There are a few other minor things that didn't quite add up, but no more than any other film.
But again, the good far outweighs the bad here. It was everything you want from these characters in this type of film. The negativity surrounding it was warranted before it was released, given DCEU's track record. But now that we've seen it? Look, I was probably 90/10 Marvel/DC reader as a kid. I didn't dislike DC, I just got into Marvel first and only had so much time (or budget) to play with. I prefer Marvel movies because of my affinity for those characters and the studio's understanding of the material. They know what fans want to see. Up until recently, this clearly has not been the case with the DCEU. But they've finally figured it out.
Is Justice League as good as the Avengers? No. Did I enjoy Thor Ragnarok more? Yes. But there's no way Ragnarok is a roaring success and Justice League is a failure if we're judging by the same metric. I simply do not understand the negative response to this film. Ragnarok is not a 90+% film if JL is a 40% film by the same metric without some kind of bias at work here. People have been burned by DC too many times and expected a failure, so a failure is what they saw. It's a shame what's happening here.
My biggest concerns regarding JL have nothing to do with the movie itself. 1. With how amazing and flat out fun JL is, I don't see how you can watch it back to back with MOS or BvS. You just can't do it. The central characters behave so differently (and for the better) in JL that you would think they were replaced by body snatchers or something. All the negativity is wiped away and these guys get back to helping people and feeling good about doing it. (Though I do appreciate Bruce's admission of guilt in JL regarding his sins in BvS. The audience needed to hear that to completely buy into this happy go lucky Batman, I think.) The audience can't pretend those movies didn't happen because the JL script heavily leans on those past experiences, so you're on your own when it comes to reconciliation between drastically different tones from film to film.
My other concern: The DCEU screws the pooch again and makes another radical shift (this time for the worse) if JL underperforms (in part due to these bogus reviews) at the BO. WB/DC: You got it right this time! Please don't go back to Snyderville where every hero is a self-loathing, cynical maniac completely devoid of any emotion beyond spiteful anger and contempt for humanity.
So yeah, JL was excellent. Every hero (and their corresponding actor) brought something to the table and made DC superheroes fun again. I'd go maybe 7/10 despite its flaws because the stuff it got right it really hit out of the park. SPOILERS: Hell, I even enjoyed the Luthor cameo in the post-credit scene. He was easily the worst part of BvS so I'm glad they relegated him to clean up crew on this film-- but it's good to know there's evil brewing here at home, not just an endless parade of space gods to contend with. His appearance also felt like a Pit-Bull video; bald dude on a yacht just chilling.
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Nov 20, 2017 13:04:22 GMT
How pathetic are people. I make my opinions known, and people from both sides start fighting like children.
Grow up, idiots!
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