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Post by goz on Nov 24, 2017 23:04:17 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory !
Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER
NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group.
This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached?
ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights?
No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion.
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madmikev40
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 24, 2017 23:15:30 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached? ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights? No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion. Thats true but then they then complain if you object to them wanting to change us. Like when Muslims complain when you object to them setting up sharia law in Australia.
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Post by goz on Nov 24, 2017 23:22:59 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached? ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights? No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion. Thats true but then they then complain if you object to them wanting to change us. Like when Muslims complain when you object to them setting up sharia law in Australia. I could have sworn that we live in a secular society, which accommodates different religions as long as they don't break secular laws? Sharia law is not accepted here and neither should Christians have exceptions made for them.
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madmikev40
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 24, 2017 23:25:29 GMT
Thats true but then they then complain if you object to them wanting to change us. Like when Muslims complain when you object to them setting up sharia law in Australia. I could have sworn that we live in a secular society, which accommodates different religions as long as they don't break secular laws? Sharia law is not accepted here and neither should Christians have exceptions made for them. Yes thats the Australia i live in, but like all snowflakes every thing is about them & suff everyone else
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Post by goz on Nov 24, 2017 23:35:50 GMT
I could have sworn that we live in a secular society, which accommodates different religions as long as they don't break secular laws? Sharia law is not accepted here and neither should Christians have exceptions made for them. Yes thats the Australia i live in, but like all snowflakes every thing is about them & suff everyone else It is one of the great ironies and hypocrisies of the Christian religion, especially in USA yet also with the Conservative right wing here!
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 24, 2017 23:44:55 GMT
Yes thats the Australia i live in, but like all snowflakes every thing is about them & suff everyone else It is one of the great ironies and hypocrisies of the Christian religion, especially in USA yet also with the Conservative right wing here! Its the minoritys that allways screw everyone up.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 0:46:09 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! It's something done a lot in modern politics, which is to recast one thing in the language of the opposite thing in order to claim a false pretext for what you're doing. Real religious freedom would be everybody's free to do what their own religion dictates, or what no religion dictates, without the government forbidding or enforcing any particular religion on anybody - unless there is some compelling government interest to do so for secular reasons, such as forbidding people from carrying out human sacrifice. But if I want to be a dick and force my religion on others, all I need to do is claim that my religion says I should act that way. Then I get to claim that any attempt to stop me is an affront to my religious freedom. Simple really.
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Post by goz on Nov 25, 2017 1:01:59 GMT
This seems to be the truth of the matter.
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Post by permutojoe on Nov 25, 2017 1:09:35 GMT
Indeed. Right to Work (right to destroy unions and exploit the working class). Religious Freedom (freedom to discriminate minorities and remove their freedoms). Free speech (free to spend unlimited sums of money on buying politicians and judges, thereby subverting the democratic process and the freedoms of Americans). The Peace Process (anything the US does abroad, usually including atrocities terrorism and war crimes). All double plus good in the bizarro world of lies in which we live.
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Post by tickingmask on Nov 25, 2017 1:13:22 GMT
NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This makes no sense. Who is claiming that religious freedom has anything to do with allowing sex couples to marry? Link please. All that religious freedom is, is the freedom to practise your religion without fear of persecution or other unwarranted interference. But you knew that already, didn't you? And most of us are quite judgemental and intolerant when it comes down to it. Look at your judgementalism in this very thread! What would make anybody think religious people have a monopoly on it?
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Post by captainbryce on Nov 25, 2017 1:15:35 GMT
It is one of the great ironies and hypocrisies of the Christian religion, especially in USA yet also with the Conservative right wing here! Its the minoritys that allways screw everyone up. If only Donald Trump had the balls to actually say that out loud. We know he’s thinking it!
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madmikev40
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 25, 2017 1:17:29 GMT
Its the minoritys that allways screw everyone up. If only Donald Trump had the balls to actually say that out loud. We know he’s thinking it! He has from what i have heard.
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Post by goz on Nov 25, 2017 1:26:48 GMT
NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This makes no sense. Who is claiming that religious freedom has anything to do with allowing sex couples to marry? Link please. All that religious freedom is, is the freedom to practise your religion without fear of persecution or other unwarranted interference. But you knew that already, didn't you? And most of us are quite judgemental and intolerant when it comes down to it. Look at your judgementalism in this very thread! What would make anybody think religious people have a monopoly on it? you really should research the topic before you reply about what is happening in Australian politics. NOT only did TV advertisements for the 'NO' campaign bring in extraneous topics additional to the simple one of legislating for same sex couples to marry, BUTT three weeks of parliamentary time is set aside to discuss these by the far right religious conservatives in parliament in the coming weeks. It is the whole 'I reserve the right NOT to bake a wedding cake for same sex couples' thing all over again.
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Post by tickingmask on Nov 25, 2017 11:45:37 GMT
NOT only did TV advertisements for the 'NO' campaign bring in extraneous topics additional to the simple one of legislating for same sex couples to marry, BUTT three weeks of parliamentary time is set aside to discuss these by the far right religious conservatives in parliament in the coming weeks. It is the whole 'I reserve the right NOT to bake a wedding cake for same sex couples' thing all over again. So we non-Australians are required to watch Australian TV adverts in order to understand what your vague insinuations are about, and you are not going to bother to clarify with an example? I see. I guess you are simply looking to rant rather than to engage in any discussion.
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Post by THawk on Nov 25, 2017 12:22:21 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached? ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights? No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion. Well you are an enemy of religious freedom, that much is clear. People should be free not only to "believe" in thought what they want, but also to carry out their beliefs in society, as long as that doesn't directly physically harm other people. Conservatives, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc everyone should be free to pray and carry whatever religious symbols they want to work and public places, and they should not be forced to provide their services for events that go against their beliefs, such as gay marriage. That is religious freedom, and you are against it. You want religious people shut down and banished from every single last aspect of society, and hope that their beliefs, and all of religion, eventually fade and disappear and go instinct. This is why the majority of straight secular gay marriage supporters don't actually give the slightest damn about gay marriage itself; their only real desire is to see religion dismantled.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Nov 25, 2017 12:38:18 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached? ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights? No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion. Well you are an enemy of religious freedom, that much is clear. People should be free not only to "believe" in thought what they want, but also to carry out their beliefs in society, as long as that doesn't directly physically harm other people. Conservatives, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc everyone should be free to pray and carry whatever religious symbols they want to work and public places, and they should not be forced to provide their services for events that go against their beliefs, such as gay marriage. That is religious freedom, and you are against it. You want religious people shut down and banished from every single last aspect of society, and hope that their beliefs, and all of religion, eventually fade and disappear and go instinct. This is why the majority of straight secular gay marriage supporters don't actually give the slightest damn about gay marriage itself; their only real desire is to see religion dismantled. The problem with that is what's to stop someone from claiming that anything conceivable must be allowed under their religious beliefs? That wouldn't be the case under the major religions, obviously, as some interpretations wouldn't be plausible, but the idea isn't that there's only religious freedom for you if you happen to belong to one of the major religions, but not otherwise.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 25, 2017 12:39:17 GMT
Hey, you do know what freedom of religion means!
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Post by THawk on Nov 25, 2017 13:05:54 GMT
Well you are an enemy of religious freedom, that much is clear. People should be free not only to "believe" in thought what they want, but also to carry out their beliefs in society, as long as that doesn't directly physically harm other people. Conservatives, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc everyone should be free to pray and carry whatever religious symbols they want to work and public places, and they should not be forced to provide their services for events that go against their beliefs, such as gay marriage. That is religious freedom, and you are against it. You want religious people shut down and banished from every single last aspect of society, and hope that their beliefs, and all of religion, eventually fade and disappear and go instinct. This is why the majority of straight secular gay marriage supporters don't actually give the slightest damn about gay marriage itself; their only real desire is to see religion dismantled. The problem with that is what's to stop someone from claiming that anything conceivable must be allowed under their religious beliefs? That wouldn't be the case under the major religions, obviously, as some interpretations wouldn't be plausible, but the idea isn't that there's only religious freedom for you if you happen to belong to one of the major religions, but not otherwise. Again, as long as it doesn't cause direct physical harm to others. That's why it's possible, and some do, to support for both gay marriage and religious freedom for businesses and individuals. The OP clearly does not.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Nov 25, 2017 13:07:58 GMT
The problem with that is what's to stop someone from claiming that anything conceivable must be allowed under their religious beliefs? That wouldn't be the case under the major religions, obviously, as some interpretations wouldn't be plausible, but the idea isn't that there's only religious freedom for you if you happen to belong to one of the major religions, but not otherwise. Again, as long as it doesn't cause direct physical harm to others. That's why it's possible, and some do, to support for both gay marriage and religious freedom for businesses and individuals. The OP clearly does not. I can't say that my religious freedom rights are being violated by being arrested for heroin, can I?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 13:17:46 GMT
This makes no sense. Who is claiming that religious freedom has anything to do with allowing sex couples to marry? Link please. Well for example there's that woman who started refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples a while back. She claimed that it was a violation of her religious freedom to have to do so. Or the businesses who want to refuse to serve gay couples, claiming that it violates their religious freedom to be required to do so.
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