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Post by tickingmask on Nov 25, 2017 14:31:05 GMT
Well for example there's that woman who started refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples a while back. She claimed that it was a violation of her religious freedom to have to do so. What does that have to do with not allowing same sex couples to marry? If I recall, she didn't want same sex couples to be refused marriage licenses, she just wanted her colleagues to issue them instead of her. Huh? This has even less to do with allowing sex couples to marry than your previous example. If you are trying to make the point that religious freedom (or any other freedom for that matter) shouldn't mean freedom to discriminate, then that's a bit of a statement of the bleeding obvious, no? I'm not sure I'd categorise this as 'religious freedom' but would you deny that people should have the freedom to be opposed to gay marriage, vote against it in referendums, lobby their representatives to have the law changed, go on protest marches, that sort of thing?
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 25, 2017 15:08:03 GMT
A lame talking point used by Christian conservatives to play the victim. "We're being oppressed! Wah, gay marriage, wahhh abortion, wahhh atheists!"
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 25, 2017 15:23:42 GMT
People should be free not only to "believe" in thought what they want, but also to carry out their beliefs in society, as long as that doesn't directly physically harm other people. Conservatives, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc everyone should be free to pray and carry whatever religious symbols they want to work and public places, and they should not be forced to provide their services for events that go against their beliefs, such as gay marriage. That is religious freedom, and you are against it. You want religious people shut down and banished from every single last aspect of society, and hope that their beliefs, and all of religion, eventually fade and disappear and go instinct. This is why the majority of straight secular gay marriage supporters don't actually give the slightest damn about gay marriage itself; their only real desire is to see religion dismantled. You bigotted Neanderthals lost the culture wars. Your ability to be complete jerks to your fellow citizens by withholding services on the basis of irrational beliefs is over. Now grow up and deal with it, because we're aren't going back.
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Post by captainbryce on Nov 25, 2017 17:12:20 GMT
If only Donald Trump had the balls to actually say that out loud. We know he’s thinking it! He has from what i have heard. Really? From where? Link? Source?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 17:41:20 GMT
Well for example there's that woman who started refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples a while back. She claimed that it was a violation of her religious freedom to have to do so. What does that have to do with not allowing same sex couples to marry? Because they couldn't marry without a license. Refusing to issue one is de facto refusing to allow people to marry. Your recollection is incorrect. When gay couples came to get licenses she did not pass them to her colleagues; she turned them away without the license. Then, of course, she began denying marriage licenses to anybody, straight or gay. She said she had considered resigning from her post but decided not to do so specifically because it would only leave the matter to her deputies, saying "If I resign, I solve nothing. It helps nobody." It was only when Davis was under lock and key that her subordinates began to issue the licenses (except for one, who happened to be her son). She then started complaining about that.. So no, she made every effort to deny gay people the right to marry. That wasn't about the right to marry specifically, more the general "I'm using religious freedom as a club to beat people I don't like" as a general principle. Nope, people have the right to be bigots if they want to be. But being opposed to other people's gay marriage is not an expression of religious freedom. It is an attempt to deny religious freedom.
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Post by thefleetsin on Nov 25, 2017 17:56:51 GMT
slam dunk deuteronomy in downtown detroit
roller coastering through the shell of what used to be detroit is about as exciting as flipping burgers in a flop house designated an historical landmark because halle barry once flicked a cigarette into its dumpster while scouting locations for her soon to be released already epic women in chains and the masters who beat them loosely based on the real life dramas of tens of millions of females who quite frankly have finally had enough of a xenophobic patriarchy only a religiously tooled monster could still be passing off as some god's enlightened lasagna.
sjw 11/25/17 inspired at this very moment in time by it's over.
from the 'benevolent series' of poems
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 25, 2017 18:04:51 GMT
slam dunk deuteronomy in downtown detroit roller coastering through the shell of what used to be detroit is about as exciting as flipping burgers in a flop house designated an historical landmark because halle barry once flicked a cigarette into its dumpster while scouting locations for her soon to be released already epic women in chains and the masters who beat them loosely based on the real life dramas of tens of millions of females who quite frankly have finally had enough of a xenophobic patriarchy only a religiously tooled monster could still be passing off as some god's enlightened lasagna. sjw 11/25/17 inspired at this very moment in time by it's over. from the 'benevolent series' of poems Nice alliteration in the title
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Post by thefleetsin on Nov 25, 2017 18:40:39 GMT
there's no business like ho business
so every halloween somewhere inside the bible belt there exists this traveling hellscaped circus where homosexuals are portrayed as burning alive and they're not even using any thing resembling boys on boxes thumper music?
what is this world coming to?
sjw 11/25/17 inspired at this very moment in time by at least get the soundtrack right.
from the 'bizarro series' of poems
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 18:40:46 GMT
Religious freedom is the freedom you have as long as you agree with my religious view.
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 25, 2017 19:10:05 GMT
A lame talking point used by Christian conservatives to play the victim. "We're being oppressed! Wah, gay marriage, wahhh abortion, wahhh atheists!" More so muslims than Christians.
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 25, 2017 19:12:39 GMT
He has from what i have heard. Really? From where? Link? Source? When hanst trump?
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 25, 2017 19:41:23 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached? ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights? No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion. Its called democracy and freedom of expression. Everybody has the right to an opinion, no matter how wrong they may be. When religious institutions put their opinions out there we can all see them. Nowhere in the Western World has rejected same sex marriage, showing us all the religious are out of touch with the general public, however it does allow us to see their attitudes. Knowledge is power.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 25, 2017 19:51:32 GMT
A lame talking point used by Christian conservatives to play the victim. "We're being oppressed! Wah, gay marriage, wahhh abortion, wahhh atheists!" More so muslims than Christians. That's certainly not the case in my country. Not that I deny Muslims complain about that stuff too, they're just vastly outnumbered by Christians in the US.
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Post by tickingmask on Nov 25, 2017 19:51:44 GMT
Because they couldn't marry without a license. Refusing to issue one is de facto refusing to allow people to marry. By splitting up my paragraph, you just managed to ignore the point I was trying to make that she wasn't "de facto refusing to allow people to marry". I wish you'd address my entire point, before coming up with a kneejerk response after reading half of it. I've now looked up the case (if you are talking about Kim Davis) and accept I was wrong about her wanting her colleagues to do the job instead of her. (Maybe I was confusing it with that other case of that pharmacist refusing to prescribe the morning after pill.) But Kim Davis' issue appears not to be that she didn't want to prevent gay people from marrying, but that she didn't want her name to appear to the marriage license as Kentucky State law requires. I'm surprised you didn't recall that particular point, since you appear to remember the case so well and that seems to be the entire basis of her protest. Then you weren't answering my question, but simply, as I said, making a statement of the bleeding obvious, that religious freedom (or any other freedom for that matter) shouldn't mean freedom to discriminate. Too right they do. And this has nothing to do with either freedom of religion OR attempts to deny religious freedom. It's to do with freedom of expression, being able to state and campaign for what you believe in without fear of retribution. Which I'm sure you agree is a freedom we should all be doing our utmost to protect, instead of trying to demonise the people who try to exercise it.
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 25, 2017 19:53:52 GMT
More so muslims than Christians. That's certainly not the case in my country. Not that I deny Muslims complain about that stuff too, they're just vastly outnumbered by Christians in the US. Well Christians tend to be safer to live with as well
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 25, 2017 20:03:00 GMT
More so muslims than Christians. That's certainly not the case in my country. Not that I deny Muslims complain about that stuff too, they're just vastly outnumbered by Christians in the US. It is the case in Europe
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 25, 2017 20:14:43 GMT
That's certainly not the case in my country. Not that I deny Muslims complain about that stuff too, they're just vastly outnumbered by Christians in the US. It is the case in Europe Well thankfully that's not the case here (we have enough religious nut cases as it is)
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 25, 2017 20:18:32 GMT
Well thankfully that's not the case here (we have enough religious nut cases as it is) I definitely feel safer with Christians than muslim, history says that it as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 4:37:12 GMT
It's the right to practice one's own beliefs without having the government forcibly interfere, unless such a course of action is needed to protect others from religion. Unfortunately, the latter part (the safeguards against having religion imposed upon us) don't really work because the government itself has a sanctioned form of religion that it wishes to impose upon its subjects.
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 26, 2017 16:22:27 GMT
tpfkar A lame talking point used by Christian conservatives to play the victim. "We're being oppressed! Wah, gay marriage, wahhh abortion, wahhh atheists!" More so muslims than Christians. Not even remotely so around these parts. And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
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