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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 19, 2017 1:02:10 GMT
Jimmy Swaggart has. When he was caught with a prostitute for the second time in five years, Jimmy was asked to explain how a preacher could be cavorting with a hooker. Jimmy said (and I quote), "The Lord told me it's flat none of your business.".
If you can't believe Jimmy Swaggart, who has his own TV show, who can you believe?
How about Bob Whetstone. Bob goes where the crowds are in Boston (summer) and Miami (winter), especially sporting events. He tells people that God told him to spread the word about Jesus. If you can't believe Bob, who can you believe?
I'm sure there are plenty of others. (Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell come to mind). Did God talk to them or are they delusional or are they lying? So how can you be sure that the same could be said for Adam, Eve, Abraham, Sarah, Moses, or Noah.
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Post by clusium on Dec 19, 2017 1:07:13 GMT
God appeared to plenty of people in the Bible; Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, etc.
How come He doesn't appear to people in modern times and speak with him or her? Or does He? How do you know that He Doesn't? There are plenty of people who have claimed to have spoken God, or the Blessed Virgin Mary, an angel or Saint in Heaven, etc. (Cue the comments from the atheists on here, about people with schizophrenia, etc 1, 2, 3,...)
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Post by captainbryce on Dec 19, 2017 1:17:10 GMT
God appeared to plenty of people in the Bible; Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, etc.
How come He doesn't appear to people in modern times and speak with him or her? Or does He? Exodus 33:20-23But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.” John 1:18No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. 1 John 4:12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 19, 2017 11:35:37 GMT
God appeared to plenty of people in the Bible; Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, etc.
How come He doesn't appear to people in modern times and speak with him or her? Or does He? That's not plenty of people. Not only had the vast majority of people in Bible times not seen God, the majority of them never saw a miracle from God since you don't need those to live or be faithful. Centuries would pass between "God sightings" or miraculous occurrences.
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Post by captainbryce on Dec 19, 2017 12:23:15 GMT
God appeared to plenty of people in the Bible; Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, etc.
How come He doesn't appear to people in modern times and speak with him or her? Or does He? That's not plenty of people. ”Plenty” is subjective. Besides, that wasn’t an all inclusive list, just a few examples. Jacob, Isaiah, etc. To live - no. To be faithful? That depends on the person. Many people DO need to see god for that, which is presumably why God “appeared” to some (like Adam and Eve) in the first place. The point he’s making is that the Bible specifically says that people saw God face to face. It also contradicts itself by saying that no one has ever seen God. Well it’s been several millennia since the last supposed God sighting (assuming we were to take the Bible stories as actual eyewitness accounts). So this still doesn’t answer his question.
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Post by Arlon10 on Dec 19, 2017 12:45:11 GMT
Not everyone who believes they receive communication from God think it is necessary to report that experience to the wide world. If God can speak to them then he can speak to others. So why bother people with reports they will not likely believe? Often the message from God is not for the wide world anyway. It involves a family member who is in trouble or other information that does not especially concern the wider world.
Notice that God's messages to Old Testament figures are often just for their private information. That was mostly before there was a "people of God." After that messages are generally for the people of God through designated prophets. Still, that does not mean approaching strangers with information they will not readily receive. The Bible advises that people keep their revelations within the congregation of the faithful and most of them do that.
Sometimes however a person might receive a message with instructions to deliver it to some group outside the congregation or to assemble a congregation in a specific place that needs one. That is very rare. Times aren't really so different.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 19, 2017 13:12:38 GMT
captainbryceIf plenty is subjective, then there is nothing wrong with what I said and I'll stick to it. Faith does not depend on the person. It depends on the thing the put faith in and miracles were never the thing to put faith in. That people think they need something miraculous to happen is irrelevant to whether they actually need that. The majority of people who believed in God in the Bible did so without miracles and people who wi9tnessed miracles did not put any faith in God or his son whatsoever. How someone chooses to worship doesn't matter in relation to the expectations of worship. It does if you stopped wasting time trying to dispute something. If Scripture itself indicates God sightings were not common, then why would it become common now? Further, I would argue that just about the same few amount of people are saying they experience God in their lives. Probably even more which makes the argument moot as well.
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Post by lordquesterjones on Dec 19, 2017 13:14:13 GMT
God appeared to plenty of people in the Bible; Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, etc.
How come He doesn't appear to people in modern times and speak with him or her? Or does He? Because modern day humans get most of their food from convenience stores.
They used to pick herbs and plants straight from the wild, which greatly increases the chance of having serious hallucinations.
Also: Peoples minds used to be set on an 'All Seeing God', now they're focused on aliens.
Less Godlike hallucinations; more Alien Abduction hallucinations.
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Post by thefleetsin on Dec 19, 2017 16:02:58 GMT
modern people are a tad more discerning then are ancient counterparts. we are not so easily swayed into believing fairy tales.
unless you're in the southern united states, where marrying your mother is considered a step up. they'll believe anything you throw at them.
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Post by captainbryce on Dec 19, 2017 16:39:50 GMT
captainbryce If plenty is subjective, then there is nothing wrong with what I said and I'll stick to it. Except that it becomes completely irrelevant, and fails to address the question. But sure, you go ahead and “stick to it”. Actually it does. For example, YOU have faith and I do not BECAUSE we are two different people. Your standard of faith being much lower than mine. See? According to YOU that is. But according to anyone who has sang “I believe in miracles”, they might have a different perspective. When the Bible says there shall be “signs”, and that people will perform miracles “in his name”, that kind of implies that miracles ARE intended to be something to which people confirm their faith. That statement doesn’t even make any logical sense. Obviously, that’s exactly what it means! Circular reasoning. We don’t know that ANY of that is true. That is based on STORIES, from the Bible that you choose to believe BECAUSE you have faith. But there is no evidence that any of that is true! We don’t actually know what people thousands of years ago really witnessed, so you can’t use that as evidence of what people today “need”. I don’t believe that ANYONE has ever seen a miracle at any time in human history because there is no evidence that any miracle has ever happened. So no, I need miracles to happen in order to have faith in god. And since I don’t see any miracles, I see no evidence or reason to believe in god. The only reason you think that people have seen miracles is because the Bible says so! True as that statement may be, it’s also not relevant to whether people need to see god or evidence of god in order to have faith. Some people don’t, while others do. The question wasn’t why aren’t god sightings “common”. The question was how come god doesn’t appear in modern times AT ALL? The juxtaposition is the fact that he DID supposedly appear to people in the past, and now he does not. And you have not answered that question. The “commonality” of these sightings is irrelevant and an example of you moving the goalposts. No it doesn’t because that’s a total red-herring. “Experiencing” God in your life is not the same thing as “seeing” God. If the question was why don’t people experience God in their lives, you might have had a point. But once again, that wasn’t the question.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 19, 2017 17:01:51 GMT
Speak for yourself.
People are just too absorbed in their cell phones to notice.
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Post by general313 on Dec 19, 2017 17:04:01 GMT
Speak for yourself. People are just too absorbed in their cell phones to notice. Maybe it's time for God to buy a smartphone and get a Twitter account.
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Post by drystyx on Dec 19, 2017 19:11:49 GMT
First things first (now I'll start singing that song again), I'm not sure all prophets were "spoken to". John the Baptist has the love and seeks the faith, but we get the idea he lives mostly by his experience applied to his love of the holy ghost, and the only time he speaks to God is when he speaks to the flesh, Jesus.
Second things second (there I go singing again), as alluded to by other astute observers, he possibly has. So why don't we know about it? The answer is impossible for the fundamentalist and the atheist and the Christian basher.
Last things last, the answer is simple to those of us more Agnostic prone. It's also why you can't organize Agnostic Christianity. When Jesus gave Peter the power, and Peter was the best choice, he also knew he'd have to return, because Peter was flawed. King David was flawed, but wise. Trouble is, Satan, along with hard telling how many devils, demons, angels not yet fallen, still reigned supreme on what we call the material world, and the Holy Ghost had to enter Satan's "box" through squeeze holes to free trapped souls by Satan. Satan made what he thought were unbeatable rules, and rigged everything. Dice with a "one" on every side to come up snake eyes, and so Jesus had to beat a rigged deal.
So, the first thing Peter does is call upon a spirit to murder two people who don't have enough faith. Jesus would never have done that. Nor would the Holy Ghost. Peter thought he was doing right, but he only proved the suspicions of the couple to be well founded, that he couldn't be trusted. Yet he was the best we could offer. That put a "cloak" over the Holy Ghost, and since then numerous popes and others have thrown more cloaks over the Holy Ghost. The squeeze hole he works in would be too much for us mortals, but the Holy Ghost is a bad ass dude.
So, anyone that does seek the holy ghost is immediately "cloaked over" by the multitudes that are blinded by devils and demons. I don't say this out of superiority. I've been as fooled by devils and demons as anyone. I hope I've learned from my mistakes, though. That's mostly what being a Christian is. So, the "multitudes" don't pay attention to anyone who would be spoken to by God or the Holy Ghost. The "multitudes" pay attention to Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Joseph Stalin, Osama bin Laden, Rush Limbaugh, Tom Cruise, and whatever other "superiority complex people who think they're gods or devils" there are. Granted, some are more evil, and some just fools, but if God spoke to them, they'd be too superior minded to listen any way.
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Post by progressiveelement on Dec 19, 2017 22:06:46 GMT
Because da shit dey smoked was stronger dan de candy ass shit dey gotz now!
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Post by looking4klingons on Dec 20, 2017 9:10:29 GMT
That's not plenty of people. ”Plenty” is subjective. Besides, that wasn’t an all inclusive list, just a few examples. Jacob, Isaiah, etc. To live - no. To be faithful? That depends on the person. Many people DO need to see god for that, which is presumably why God “appeared” to some (like Adam and Eve) in the first place. The point he’s making is that the Bible specifically says that people saw God face to face. It also contradicts itself by saying that no one has ever seen God. Well it’s been several millennia since the last supposed God sighting (assuming we were to take the Bible stories as actual eyewitness accounts). So this still doesn’t answer his question. “Seeing” the 10 plagues on Egypt, then seeing the Red Sea split didn’t affect the Israelites, one tiny bit! They became unfaithful only a few days later.
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Post by captainbryce on Dec 20, 2017 14:12:44 GMT
”Plenty” is subjective. Besides, that wasn’t an all inclusive list, just a few examples. Jacob, Isaiah, etc. To live - no. To be faithful? That depends on the person. Many people DO need to see god for that, which is presumably why God “appeared” to some (like Adam and Eve) in the first place. The point he’s making is that the Bible specifically says that people saw God face to face. It also contradicts itself by saying that no one has ever seen God. Well it’s been several millennia since the last supposed God sighting (assuming we were to take the Bible stories as actual eyewitness accounts). So this still doesn’t answer his question. “Seeing” the 10 plagues on Egypt, then seeing the Red Sea split didn’t affect the Israelites, one tiny bit! They became unfaithful only a few days later. Again, entirely circular logic that absolutely depends on the BELIEF that the biblical account of the 10 plagues actually occurred in the first place (for which of course there is ZERO scientific or archeological evidence, or extra biblical testimony). Besides, even IF this actually happened and the Israelites became unfaithful shortly thereafter, all that proves is that the were an inherently INSANE race of evil, selfish, and gullible morons, and deserved to die because they were unworthy even by human atheist standards! People today blindly practice an insane, cultish belief based on the writings of a science fiction author (Scientology), that has shown no evidence of aliens, gods, souls, or any other such claims. Yet you’re telling me an entire race of the supposed “chosen people” who walked in the presence of God and witness miracles first hand could so easily come to doubt that faith in favor of selfish vices? Yeah, that sounds “credible” (but only if we assume they were all more insane than Scientologists). And I will also add that the example you gave would be all the more reason for god to reveal himself today. If the Israelites who actually witnessed God and miracles could actually reject the fact so easily, why would anyone (let alone an all knowing God) think that people would be MORE likely to have faith with LESS evidence? That’s completely illogical and ridiculous.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 20, 2017 14:46:20 GMT
“Seeing” the 10 plagues on Egypt, then seeing the Red Sea split didn’t affect the Israelites, one tiny bit! They became unfaithful only a few days later. Again, entirely circular logic that absolutely depends on the BELIEF that the biblical account of the 10 plagues actually occurred in the first place (for which of course there is ZERO scientific or archeological evidence, or extra biblical testimony). Besides, even IF this actually happened and the Israelites became unfaithful shortly thereafter, all that proves is that the were an inherently INSANE race of evil, selfish, and gullible morons, and deserved to die because they were unworthy even by human atheist standards! People today blindly practice an insane, cultish belief based on the writings of a science fiction author (Scientology), that has shown no evidence of aliens, gods, souls, or any other such claims. Yet you’re telling me an entire race of the supposed “chosen people” who walked in the presence of God and witness miracles first hand could so easily come to doubt that faith in favor of selfish vices? Yeah, that sounds “credible” (but only if we assume they were all more insane than Scientologists). And I will also add that the example you gave would be all the more reason for god to reveal himself today. If the Israelites who actually witnessed God and miracles could actually reject the fact so easily, why would anyone (let alone an all knowing God) think that people would be MORE likely to have faith with LESS evidence? That’s completely illogical and ridiculous. Eh, look who knows so much.
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Post by captainbryce on Dec 20, 2017 14:51:29 GMT
Again, entirely circular logic that absolutely depends on the BELIEF that the biblical account of the 10 plagues actually occurred in the first place (for which of course there is ZERO scientific or archeological evidence, or extra biblical testimony). Besides, even IF this actually happened and the Israelites became unfaithful shortly thereafter, all that proves is that the were an inherently INSANE race of evil, selfish, and gullible morons, and deserved to die because they were unworthy even by human atheist standards! People today blindly practice an insane, cultish belief based on the writings of a science fiction author (Scientology), that has shown no evidence of aliens, gods, souls, or any other such claims. Yet you’re telling me an entire race of the supposed “chosen people” who walked in the presence of God and witness miracles first hand could so easily come to doubt that faith in favor of selfish vices? Yeah, that sounds “credible” (but only if we assume they were all more insane than Scientologists). And I will also add that the example you gave would be all the more reason for god to reveal himself today. If the Israelites who actually witnessed God and miracles could actually reject the fact so easily, why would anyone (let alone an all knowing God) think that people would be MORE likely to have faith with LESS evidence? That’s completely illogical and ridiculous. Eh, look who knows so much. Obviously NOT you (considering your response).
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 20, 2017 15:26:23 GMT
tpfkar God appeared to plenty of people in the Bible; Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, etc. How come He doesn't appear to people in modern times and speak with him or her? Or does He? How do you know that He Doesn't? There are plenty of people who have claimed to have spoken God, or the Blessed Virgin Mary, an angel or Saint in Heaven, etc. (Cue the comments from the atheists on here, about people with schizophrenia, etc 1, 2, 3,...) No real evidence coupled with no good reason to believe in fairy stories, of course. No God
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 20, 2017 15:51:24 GMT
tpfkar How do you know that He Doesn't? There are plenty of people who have claimed to have spoken God, or the Blessed Virgin Mary, an angel or Saint in Heaven, etc. (Cue the comments from the atheists on here, about people with schizophrenia, etc 1, 2, 3,...) No real evidence coupled with no good reason to believe in fairy stories, of course. No GodYou're a fairy. Don't fairies even believe in their own stories?
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