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Post by charzhino on Mar 22, 2018 11:42:47 GMT
Nolan had a big hand in MoS and im pretty sure Superman was faithfully adapted.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 12:19:45 GMT
Eh, he doesn't know how to do real Superhero stuff. He wouldn't even make the X-Men mutants or give them superpowers. Plus he'd load the films with BS philosophies with loads of holes in them no one questions because he thinks those philosophies are infallible. He's not underappreciated...or a genius, actually. He's fairly predictable in his characters and storytelling. He made 3 Super Heroe films. You may not like them but it doesn't change the fact that he's made them. Stop it with this "actually they're not real comic book movies" nonsense. He would make them Mutants, not sure where you're getting this idea that he wouldn't. Hell he's a fan of the X-MEN movies! So basically you hate CBM that are more than explosions. They're not superhero movies, they're wannabe crime dramas that fall apart due to the lazy choices he made.
He wouldn't, he'd "ground" them. If he appreciated that stuff he'd have used the Lazarus Pits and given Bane the Venom and stuff.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 12:26:43 GMT
Feige was only allowed the chance because of Singer and Raimis groundwork of solid foundations. Singer revolutionised the genre on 2000. No, Singer nearly DESTROYED the genre. None of which describe X2. Being unashamed, unpretentious and unafraid to push the envelope. Have its flaws more readily pointed out, as it has REAL competition. Critics and audiences go easier on Swan Songs. A rather predictable villain who naturally got more focus than the heroes, as usual of an older CBM that had no faith in its heroes. All well done villains, without stealing the show from the hero. It's just "One guy has a doom machine, then someone else gets his doom machine". The political commentary is as subtle as a Nuke. Ragnarok's commentary on Imperialism was more subtle and meaningful that that stupidity with Bobby's family. Unashamed and unpretentious. Sure there is, you need to get over your disgust with actual unashamed comic-bookiness to see it. Nope, that was just because it got an easy treatment for being Jackmans' Swan Song. Nope, truth. I READ those stories and neither spoke to me. Showing your hatred of real comic bookiness again. It doesn't matter how he got it. No, it was because Hank was a pushover who let Xavier mope around like a baby and Xavier just gave up instead of continuing to do anything. Totally passive, needing someone else to get him out of it. Fixed.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 22, 2018 12:48:47 GMT
He made 3 Super Heroe films. You may not like them but it doesn't change the fact that he's made them. Stop it with this "actually they're not real comic book movies" nonsense. He would make them Mutants, not sure where you're getting this idea that he wouldn't. Hell he's a fan of the X-MEN movies! So basically you hate CBM that are more than explosions. They're not superhero movies, they're wannabe crime dramas that fall apart due to the lazy choices he made.
He wouldn't, he'd "ground" them. If he appreciated that stuff he'd have used the Lazarus Pits and given Bane the Venom and stuff.
Yes they are, it's just not the kind YOU want. The grounded idea actually was Goyer idea. Nolan took it and made amazing movies with it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 13:45:15 GMT
They're not superhero movies, they're wannabe crime dramas that fall apart due to the lazy choices he made.
He wouldn't, he'd "ground" them. If he appreciated that stuff he'd have used the Lazarus Pits and given Bane the Venom and stuff.
Yes they are, it's just not the kind YOU want. The grounded idea actually was Goyer idea. Nolan took it and made amazing movies with it. No, they're not. Nolan stripped away anything comicy about Batman for his movies, and as crime dramas he took too many lazy ways out.
They worked well for a time when there was little competition.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 22, 2018 14:02:57 GMT
Yes they are, it's just not the kind YOU want. The grounded idea actually was Goyer idea. Nolan took it and made amazing movies with it. No, they're not. Nolan stripped away anything comicy about Batman for his movies, and as crime dramas he took too many lazy ways out.
They worked well for a time when there was little competition.
So youd prefer the Bane from Batman and Robin because hes 90% the same as the comics with the mask and venom fluid supply. And again with your competition line. If any of the Dark Knight films came out in 2017, theyd beat the MCU ones comfortably.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 22, 2018 15:03:58 GMT
Yes they are, it's just not the kind YOU want. The grounded idea actually was Goyer idea. Nolan took it and made amazing movies with it. No, they're not. Nolan stripped away anything comicy about Batman for his movies, and as crime dramas he took too many lazy ways out.
They worked well for a time when there was little competition.
We can agree to disagree. Honestly I'm not surprised that nolan gets a lot of hate. MCU fans, DCEU fans and FoxMen fans have always hated Nolan, they can't stand the fact that he created the best and most critically acclaimed CBM. And he did all of this without resorting to big CG monsters and Video Game imaginary.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 15:08:24 GMT
No, they're not. Nolan stripped away anything comicy about Batman for his movies, and as crime dramas he took too many lazy ways out.
They worked well for a time when there was little competition.
So youd prefer the Bane from Batman and Robin because hes 90% the same as the comics with the mask and venom fluid supply. And again with your competition line. If any of the Dark Knight films came out in 2017, theyd beat the MCU ones comfortably. No, that Bane wasn't accurate either. Intelligence is not 10% of a character.
And no, the Nolan movies wouldn't do that well in today's environment. Critics would be MUCH more willing to point out all the silly stuff like the flatter characters, the silly pretentious speeches and how the villains are the real stars of the show.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 15:08:58 GMT
No, they're not. Nolan stripped away anything comicy about Batman for his movies, and as crime dramas he took too many lazy ways out.
They worked well for a time when there was little competition.
We can agree to disagree. Honestly I'm not surprised that nolan gets a lot of hate. MCU fans, DCEU fans and FoxMen fans have always hated Nolan, they can't stand the fact that he created the best and most critically acclaimed CBM. And he did all of this without resorting to big CG monsters and Video Game imaginary. Dark Knight was full of laziness, and succeeded mainly due to Ledger dying.
There, I said it.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 22, 2018 15:21:41 GMT
We can agree to disagree. Honestly I'm not surprised that nolan gets a lot of hate. MCU fans, DCEU fans and FoxMen fans have always hated Nolan, they can't stand the fact that he created the best and most critically acclaimed CBM. And he did all of this without resorting to big CG monsters and Video Game imaginary. Dark Knight was full of laziness, and succeeded mainly due to Ledger dying.
There, I said it.
You've been saying that every time Dark Knight is brought up. But whatever you're entitled to your opinion.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 22, 2018 16:09:55 GMT
Critics would be MUCH more willing to point out all the silly stuff like the flatter characters, the silly pretentious speeches and how the villains are the real stars of the show. [/p][/quote] Rubbish. Critics were harsher when comic bok films were still rare because of their snobbish thinking. Now that they are accepted and common, they get easy rides like Antman, Ragnarok and Spiderman Homecoming. All ridiculous scores for really run of the mill stuff. Critics wont find much to complain because the tone is lighthearted and the heros are comedians. Its much harder to get character complexities be sympathetic to audiences when your writing a Nolan style Batman, or a Magneto or a Logan. It takes hell of an effort all round from writing, acting, dialogue and direction. In the MCU all you need to do is make the hero a STUD comedian and the audience instantly like them and critics give them a free ride. Thats real lazy writing
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 22, 2018 16:37:55 GMT
Feige definitely traded up, seeing how trapped in the past the FoX-Men movies are. Feige revolutionized the genre in ways Singer never could. X2 is just a rehash of X1, and it did well due to lack of competition. Put it out today and it would be seen as mediocre. Logan? That only got a good reception due to being Jackman and Stewarts' Swan Song. God Loves, Man Kills was a pretty silly book. The reason it's remembered is more for it being the first time the X-Men teamed up with Magneto more than anything else. And DOFP isn't all that great a story either, again it's more remembered for being the first time the Sentinels were shown to be a real threat instead of a joke. It was only two issues and the actual plot was pretty thin. As for IM3, they replaced a generic alcohol plot with PTSD. And they didn't make Tony a sadsack who needed someone else to get him out of it like Xavier did. Tony was strong enough to deal with it on his own. The sooner the X-Men are in the MCU, the sooner that kind of pretentiousness is done with and we'll all be better off. And for the record, THIS is one of the best comic covers ever: That DOFP cover is memorable for superficial reasons only, nothing more. LMAO Kevin Fiege loves X2, DOFP, and Logan. He even had X2 writer Zack Penn work on Increbible Hulk and Avengers.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 22, 2018 16:41:24 GMT
summers8 You realize this, right? His entire career started with X1 and that’s how he got a job at Marvel Studios. He even had plans for the X-Men similar to the MCU according to Lauren Shuler Donner. comicbook.com/marvel/2017/12/08/kevin-feige-x-men-franchise-plans-fox/The route she is talking about is X-Men: The Last Stand which Feige was less involved with(likely because he wasn’t pleased with it) and here is what studio executive Tom Rothman thought of the Phoenix storyline: The studio executives never even wanted to adapted it and instead chose to dick ride Magneto. The Dark Phoenix movie seems to based on the plan Kevin Feige had for the X-Men based on what we’ve seen/heard. But with the space stuff added. So Fox thought their route was a mistake and that Feige’s was better. Even Tom Rothman said that Kevin Feige knew what he was doing. I hate to ask but have you ever gotten a new job and your new boss has different goals and tasks for you than your old boss. Feige worked on X-Men 1 and 2 and now he is making jokey cgi generic action-comedy for children? Funny, because there is no way Disney will ever greenlighted X-Men 1 and X-Men 2 that Feige worked on, not under Disney. so I ask again, have you ever gotten a new job with a different boss or are most of you mcu fans not old enough to work yet? You’ve finally relied even though I called you out at least three times since this thread was made. You clearly rly have not watched Black Panther because that movie shits all over your argument.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 16:53:37 GMT
It's good to see we are all in agreement here. The X Men movies are great. Nolan's Bat trilogy is great. And the McU is great.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 22, 2018 17:08:32 GMT
Rubbish. Critics were harsher when comic bok films were still rare because of their snobbish thinking. Now that they are accepted and common, they get easy rides like Antman, Ragnarok and Spiderman Homecoming. Nope, those films earned their scores BECAUSE of their unpretentious approach and the MCU thumbing its nose at the throwbacks who only want Grounded CBMs. Nope, plenty of folks still enjoy that outdated, pretentious approach. Doing a non-grounded CBM has always been the real challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 2:28:03 GMT
Nolan had a big hand in MoS and im pretty sure Superman was faithfully adapted. Yep, MOS is the only DCEU movie I love; mostly because I appreciated the more serious route for Supes. I don't get why people call it to dark it's not even that dark it's just more serious than previous Superman movies.
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