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Post by theoncomingstorm on Feb 19, 2018 4:04:20 GMT
All that information being collected is open to misuse. Also, there are legal things that people do that they might not want known about them. Would you be ok with cameras in your lounge, bedroom? Why not? If you arent doing anything illegal, what does that matter? Why should the box someone lives in be more private than in public? OK, I said I was going to be Devil's Advocate...so here goes. What legal things? You mean immoral such as cheating on partners etc etc? Other than that, we all poo and wee and have sex pick our noses and masturbate and do human stuff...some have fetishes etc etc...so what is so bad that it has to stay private? You're asking the wrong question. Devil's Advocate or not, this is just more evidence you really don't understand the concept of civil rights and just pay it lip service at best. When civil rights, specifically privacy rights, are being discussed, the question is never "Why should these things remain private?" the correct question is always "Why should these things be made public?" "It will help stop bad people from doing bad things." is never an acceptable answer because you don't justify catching someone doing something bad by doing something bad to millions of people who aren't doing something bad. That's the very foundation of individual (civil) rights.
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Post by goz on Feb 19, 2018 6:19:40 GMT
OK, I said I was going to be Devil's Advocate...so here goes. What legal things? You mean immoral such as cheating on partners etc etc? Other than that, we all poo and wee and have sex pick our noses and masturbate and do human stuff...some have fetishes etc etc...so what is so bad that it has to stay private? You're asking the wrong question. Devil's Advocate or not, this is just more evidence you really don't understand the concept of civil rights and just pay it lip service at best. When civil rights, specifically privacy rights, are being discussed, the question is never "Why should these things remain private?" the correct question is always "Why should these things be made public?" "It will help stop bad people from doing bad things." is never an acceptable answer because you don't justify catching someone doing something bad by doing something bad to millions of people who aren't doing something bad. That's the very foundation of individual (civil) rights. OK Mr Cash..,logic KING. What about Devil's Advocate don't you understand? As per the definition I am asking questions on both sides in an attempt to gain some diverse opinions and information.
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Post by shadrack on Feb 19, 2018 7:23:38 GMT
OK, I said I was going to be Devil's Advocate...so here goes. What legal things? You mean immoral such as cheating on partners etc etc? Other than that, we all poo and wee and have sex pick our noses and masturbate and do human stuff...some have fetishes etc etc...so what is so bad that it has to stay private? People assuming you do all that stuff (because "everyone" does it) isn't quite the same as having it tracked and recorded and made available to complete strangers -- especially if it's without your consent. How would you feel if all your private moments -- every minute you spent in the in the bathroom or bedroom or the doctor's office -- what if they were all recorded and posted to YouTube every day for all to see? I'm not asking what if this happened to everyone -- I'm asking how you would feel if this happened just to you? You and nobody else. Would you have a problem with that? If so, why? What do you do that's so bad it has to stay private?
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Post by goz on Feb 19, 2018 7:36:00 GMT
OK, I said I was going to be Devil's Advocate...so here goes. What legal things? You mean immoral such as cheating on partners etc etc? Other than that, we all poo and wee and have sex pick our noses and masturbate and do human stuff...some have fetishes etc etc...so what is so bad that it has to stay private? People assuming you do all that stuff (because "everyone" does it) isn't quite the same as having it tracked and recorded and made available to complete strangers -- especially if it's without your consent. How would you feel if all your private moments -- every minute you spent in the in the bathroom or bedroom or the doctor's office -- what if they were all recorded and posted to YouTube every day for all to see? I'm not asking what if this happened to everyone -- I'm asking how you would feel if this happened just to you? You and nobody else. Would you have a problem with that? If so, why? What do you do that's so bad it has to stay private? My very simple answer to you, is that because EVERYONE does those things, there is no interest, so it wouldn't happen
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Feb 19, 2018 7:46:58 GMT
All that information being collected is open to misuse. Also, there are legal things that people do that they might not want known about them. Would you be ok with cameras in your lounge, bedroom? Why not? If you arent doing anything illegal, what does that matter? Why should the box someone lives in be more private than in public? OK, I said I was going to be Devil's Advocate...so here goes. What legal things? You mean immoral such as cheating on partners etc etc? Other than that, we all poo and wee and have sex pick our noses and masturbate and do human stuff...some have fetishes etc etc...so what is so bad that it has to stay private? Sure. Cheating on partners could be an example. Using a brothel if I wanted. That is none of the government's business. The government arent the moral police. I see the right to privacy as important. Also, everything is hackable, dont forget.
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Post by shadrack on Feb 19, 2018 9:38:36 GMT
People assuming you do all that stuff (because "everyone" does it) isn't quite the same as having it tracked and recorded and made available to complete strangers -- especially if it's without your consent. How would you feel if all your private moments -- every minute you spent in the in the bathroom or bedroom or the doctor's office -- what if they were all recorded and posted to YouTube every day for all to see? I'm not asking what if this happened to everyone -- I'm asking how you would feel if this happened just to you? You and nobody else. Would you have a problem with that? If so, why? What do you do that's so bad it has to stay private? My very simple answer to you, is that because EVERYONE does those things, there is no interest, so it wouldn't happen But what if it did -- hypothetically? Would you have a problem with it, and if so, why?
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Post by progressiveelement on Feb 19, 2018 11:56:37 GMT
If these chips are able to be tracked as easily and widely as thought, without installing transmitters everywhere on the planet, they are obviously giving off an unhealthy amount of electromagnetic radiation and will increase your chances of getting cancer.
Or having your insides cooked.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 19, 2018 11:59:06 GMT
People assuming you do all that stuff (because "everyone" does it) isn't quite the same as having it tracked and recorded and made available to complete strangers -- especially if it's without your consent. How would you feel if all your private moments -- every minute you spent in the in the bathroom or bedroom or the doctor's office -- what if they were all recorded and posted to YouTube every day for all to see? I'm not asking what if this happened to everyone -- I'm asking how you would feel if this happened just to you? You and nobody else. Would you have a problem with that? If so, why? What do you do that's so bad it has to stay private? My very simple answer to you, is that because EVERYONE does those things, there is no interest, so it wouldn't happen Lol
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Post by Rodney Farber on Feb 19, 2018 12:15:36 GMT
Forty years ago, I was the victim of identity theft. This was probably twenty years before the phrase was even coined. By today's standards, it was minor. Someone posing as me obtained the contents of my bank account, forged my signature, and withdrew $300. Since that time, I do not disclose personal information unless required by law.
Last month, I went into a car dealer and was attempting to negotiate a price. I overheard the salesman talking to the sales manager. One of them said, "The computer says that he paid cash for a car when he was here six years ago, so I know he's not poor. I'm not willing to lower the price any further".
If people know something about you, they will use it to their advantage, not yours.
Think of all the data breaches that you have heard about. Just suppose someone breaches the data bank that has been keeping track of your travels.
I know I'm overly cautious, but I pay cash whenever possible to keep the public information to a minimum.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Feb 19, 2018 12:17:31 GMT
You're asking the wrong question. Devil's Advocate or not, this is just more evidence you really don't understand the concept of civil rights and just pay it lip service at best. When civil rights, specifically privacy rights, are being discussed, the question is never "Why should these things remain private?" the correct question is always "Why should these things be made public?" "It will help stop bad people from doing bad things." is never an acceptable answer because you don't justify catching someone doing something bad by doing something bad to millions of people who aren't doing something bad. That's the very foundation of individual (civil) rights. OK Mr Cash..,logic KING. What about Devil's Advocate don't you understand? As per the definition I am asking questions on both sides in an attempt to gain some diverse opinions and information. No, you're not. You're using the Devil's Advocate claim in a piss poor attempt to cover up the fact that you are, at heart, a statist. You're nowhere near as good at hiding your real intentions as you seem to believe yourself to be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 15:23:16 GMT
Yeah right, Goz. You just want a bunch of choir boys to start admitting their dirty secrets to you.
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Post by goz on Feb 19, 2018 20:40:56 GMT
OK Mr Cash..,logic KING. What about Devil's Advocate don't you understand? As per the definition I am asking questions on both sides in an attempt to gain some diverse opinions and information. No, you're not. You're using the Devil's Advocate claim in a piss poor attempt to cover up the fact that you are, at heart, a statist. You're nowhere near as good at hiding your real intentions as you seem to believe yourself to be. Well, Mr Smarty Pants, I am, in fact arguing for a position in which I don't personally believe, so what does that make me? I believe in personal privacy and security otherwise why would I pay for my computer security software have an account with a company so I don't use my credit card numbers have too many passwords to count and other privacy and security measures? Do you know my real name?
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Post by Marv on Feb 20, 2018 1:48:32 GMT
Just feels like a basic violation of privacy.
When I’m sitting in my living room watching tv I don’t want someone staring at me through the window. Will they see something illegal or personally embarrassing to me? Probably not. I still don’t want it tho.
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Post by goz on Feb 20, 2018 1:53:26 GMT
Just feels like a basic violation of privacy. When I’m sitting in my living room watching tv I don’t want someone staring at me through the window. Will they see something illegal or personally embarrassing to me? Probably not. I still don’t want it tho. Fair enough. Also you could close the curtains.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 3:18:13 GMT
Actually that's not necessarily true. There are plenty of chips that are one-time-only; they can be written to once, and then never again. If an implanted chip was an ID sort of deal, such a thing would be very likely to be used. I very much doubt that the implanted chips that are in use now are one-time-only. Perhaps. As I said, it is going to depend on what they are used for. Which is fine, for that particular chip. But different chips are going to be different depending (say it with me!) on what they are used for.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 3:23:03 GMT
"It will help stop bad people from doing bad things." is never an acceptable answer No, that is too absolutist. If that were the case governments would never be able to do anything that inconvenienced anybody. The reality is that a government must balance the restriction on people's rights with the resulting increase in security.
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Post by Arlon10 on Feb 20, 2018 4:06:36 GMT
There has been some discussion on this board about micro chips and implantations, surveillance and perceived invasions of personal privacy and security. I am going to play the Devil's Advocate for a moment here and ask people why they fear this, what is the intrinsic harm, what could be the consequences of that perceived harm and how we can stop it. For my part, as a regular kind of law abiding citizen who has already come under some of this type of surveillance because I have a mobile phone, a computer an internet server, a credit card and I walk into public places such as malls, use the roads and have a car with an identifiable number plate etc..... In some ways don't these things protect me?I am innocent of wrongdoing, what harm is there? What can happen to me? Can someone tell me what the 'intrinsic' harm is, if you are a law abiding citizen? Wouldn't it be only criminals with something to hide that is seriously at risk of 'discovery', and isn't that good? I think you've had more practice being a devil's advocate than I have. Microchip technology isn't equally fair. The rich have access to technology that would give them advantages over the poor. What could happen to you? Remember that fingerprint recognition security? Somebody might cut your finger off. With microchips they might cut yours out and commit a crime with it in their possession after having removed their own. Then who knows? Switch back. Thanks for bringing up another reason that too many people are too stupid vote and something must be done to prevent them voting for their stupid ideas.
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Post by Marv on Feb 20, 2018 4:41:36 GMT
Just feels like a basic violation of privacy. When I’m sitting in my living room watching tv I don’t want someone staring at me through the window. Will they see something illegal or personally embarrassing to me? Probably not. I still don’t want it tho. Fair enough. Also you could close the curtains. Don’t forget to tip.
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Post by goz on Feb 20, 2018 6:25:00 GMT
Fair enough. Also you could close the curtains. Don’t forget to tip. We don't tip in my country.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 20, 2018 7:46:38 GMT
I very much doubt that the implanted chips that are in use now are one-time-only. Perhaps. As I said, it is going to depend on what they are used for. Which is fine, for that particular chip. But different chips are going to be different depending (say it with me!) on what they are used for. Hey genius, once it's implanted, you have no control over what's used for. You can be told it's for one thing, and the next day it can be for something else. Combine that with a cashless society, and you have total control of the populace, and no one shall buy or sell without it.
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