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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 20, 2018 14:32:31 GMT
... blaming the Catholic church for the crimes of some of its priests?
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Post by Isapop on Feb 20, 2018 14:57:26 GMT
This BBC article certainly brings to mind similarities in both organizations: www.bbc.com/news/uk-43112200
I don't know if Oxfam's handling of allegations is at the same level of infamy as the Catholic church. |
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 20, 2018 15:02:47 GMT
I don't think Oxfam and the Catholic Church exist as abstract entities aside from their staff/clergy. So if some of their staff/clergy misbehave, then the organisation is at fault.
Of course, this doesn't mean all Oxfam staff and Catholic priests are bad people.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 20, 2018 15:03:05 GMT
I was asking since the express aim of Oxfam is to focus on the alleviation of global poverty. Harsh as it might seem to say so, the current disgraceful revelations do not show a deviation from this aim as opposed to yes, being a distraction. For instance those who liaise with prostitutes at night might still work effectively to alleviate poverty through their day job. Whereas the (primarily Catholic, but others have been drawn in too) church has a much broader moral agenda of pastoral care and empathy for the downtrodden for instance.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 20, 2018 15:04:28 GMT
I was asking since the express aim of Oxfam is to focus on the alleviation of global poverty. Harsh as it might seem, the current disgraceful revelations do not show a deviation from this aim as opposed to yes, being a distraction. Whereas the (primarily Catholic, but others have been drawn in too) has a much broader moral agenda of pastoral care and empathy for the downtrodden for instance. Surely exploiting sufferers of global poverty is similar to taking advantage of those in your pastoral care? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 20, 2018 15:07:13 GMT
It's OK to blame the organization for the faults of the staff
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Post by Isapop on Feb 20, 2018 15:09:58 GMT
For instance those who liaise with prostitutes at night might still work effectively to alleviate poverty through their day job. Weren't underage prostitutes involved, though? |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 20, 2018 15:10:32 GMT
I was asking since the express aim of Oxfam is to focus on the alleviation of global poverty. Harsh as it might seem, the current disgraceful revelations do not show a deviation from this aim as opposed to yes, being a distraction. Whereas the (primarily Catholic, but others have been drawn in too) has a much broader moral agenda of pastoral care and empathy for the downtrodden for instance. [*this para just since edited sorry about that!) Surely exploiting sufferers of global poverty is similar to taking advantage of those in your pastoral care? Well I can see a sort of connection (and I am being the devil's advocate here) but giving money for sex, say would not add to the poverty of the person concerned - in fact it might put bread on the table - and as I already suggested the main, moral, aim of Oxfam at least as they see it is specifically predicated around addressing poverty. The church gives itself a much wider remit; Oxfam doesn't make itself much of target for other than managerial incompetence in employment practices and quality. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 20, 2018 15:13:13 GMT
For instance those who liaise with prostitutes at night might still work effectively to alleviate poverty through their day job. Weren't underage prostitutes involved, though? This is allegedly the case, and prostitution is certainly illegal in Haiti. The age of consent there is 18, too. But my point would be strictly from the expressed moral purpose of an organisation. It might make sense to condemn Oxfam for a lack of governance and control, but the rest is down to local police enforcement against individuals. All Oxfam primarily wants to do is alleviate poverty and not try and resolve child-sex or prostitution issues from the top down (though I am not saying it would not have an eye on, or make policies in regards to issues connected with poverty.) It makes as much sense as condemning Adidas for staff who, say might deliberately start forest fires. |
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Post by Isapop on Feb 20, 2018 15:22:27 GMT
Weren't underage prostitutes involved, though? It might make sense to condemn Oxfam for a lack of governance and control that is the extent of Oxfam's fault, it doesn't rise (or sink) to the level of the Church's policy of cover-up. |
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 20, 2018 15:38:00 GMT
Surely exploiting sufferers of global poverty is similar to taking advantage of those in your pastoral care? Well I can see a sort of connection (and I am being the devil's advocate here) but giving money for sex, say would not add to the poverty of the person concerned - in fact it might put bread on the table - and as I already suggested the main, moral, aim of Oxfam at least as they see it is specifically predicated around addressing poverty. But then Oxfam say there are committed to tackling the injustices of poverty and inequality. If they're profiting from such injustices it does raise questions of hypocrisy. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 20, 2018 15:47:49 GMT
Well I can see a sort of connection (and I am being the devil's advocate here) but giving money for sex, say would not add to the poverty of the person concerned - in fact it might put bread on the table - and as I already suggested the main, moral, aim of Oxfam at least as they see it is specifically predicated around addressing poverty. But then Oxfam say there are committed to tackling the injustices of poverty and inequality. If they're profiting from such injustices it does raise questions of hypocrisy. Yes, but then one would need to show that the organisation was profiting or gaining from exploitation of the poor, rather than just those few who commit the crimes! i.e. what was any material benefit likely to be for Oxfam from the actions of some bad apples? |
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Post by THawk on Feb 20, 2018 15:52:59 GMT
No, that's absurd. The Catholic Church has billions of members and.....hundreds of thousands, million? of clergy and volunteers. IDK the exact number but when you have a body that large, you take on all the strengths and blemishes of the human race as a whole pretty much.
Oxfam, and it seems so many other charities, including many of the supposed Christian ones, are despicable turds that are not only corrupt, but work day and night to paint themselves as some kind of end of the world heroes that just need your hard earned dollar to save the poorest of the poorest. When in reality they are plagued by sex abusers in what is a comparatively small circle that they absolutely without question should have control or responsibility over. What makes them all the more evil is that there are actual charities doing good work, but to a regular person they are virtually indistinguishable from the corrupt ones. World Vision has been caught up as well. And UN is basically sex abuse orgy land.
I have sadly donated to Oxfam and a number of others mentioned in these cases, and it makes me sick to my stomach. No good deed goes unpunished.
IDK if I believe in hell, but yes, there should be a special place in it for the abuser priests and these so-called charities.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Feb 20, 2018 23:46:09 GMT
Mainly "yes". Their attempts at ensuring these sorts of abuses don't occur appear to be non-existent and when news of these abuses became known to them, their first instinct wasn't "we must bring these people to justice!" but rather "we must protect our organisation" (sound familiar to anyone?).
And unlike the Catholic Church, Oxfam actually do do a lot of charitable work so do deserve there tax exemptions and there are a lot of innocent, hard working people in the organisation. But the higher echelons of "big charities" are more like corporations with relatively large salaries being paid and waste and inefficiencies being present (along with the potential abuses). Which is why I've also donated (my time and money) to smaller charities.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 21, 2018 0:13:31 GMT
And unlike the Catholic Church, Oxfam actually do do a lot of charitable work In fairness, the Catholic Church also does a lot of charitable work via the St Vincent de Paul society. Charity within a Catholic framework sure (so they ain't gonna be handing out free condoms) but I think it would be unfair to say they do nothing on that score. |
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Post by clusium on Feb 21, 2018 3:59:05 GMT
And unlike the Catholic Church, Oxfam actually do do a lot of charitable work so do deserve there tax exemptions and there are a lot of innocent, hard working people in the organisation. But the higher echelons of "big charities" are more like corporations with relatively large salaries being paid and waste and inefficiencies being present (along with the potential abuses). Which is why I've also donated (my time and money) to smaller charities. Where did you get the Bull of ----?!?! The Catholic Church has more charities than you can even dream of!!!! |
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Post by THawk on Feb 24, 2018 12:21:36 GMT
It continues, it's never ending: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43180606I honestly feel like a complete idiot for even having some hope that select few humans on this Earth are decent. I mean, there still are, but they definitely are not to be found in the so-called "humanitarian" or "human rights" field. For the past 10 years of life I have in various ways supported/been involved in this stuff, but I guess I didn't really want to know the truth because I wanted to hold on to at least a bit of optimism or hope. Just a tiny bit. You give people money to help others, and they use it to fuck prostitutes. Wonderful. I am honestly angry at everything and everyone and everything at this point. Fuck all this. |
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