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Post by gadreel on Feb 28, 2018 20:51:01 GMT
The sense that there is a greater meaning to the universe than your own self existence.  nice. |
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Post by goz on Feb 28, 2018 20:59:07 GMT
What if I totally, utterly and unequivocally disagree. To me it is the opposite. It is the search of the unknown for knowledge, understanding which might lead to happiness. Yet there is happiness also in this search. The happiness and calmness comes when you truthfully look inside yourself and search for a place that makes sense where you fit into this world and the universe. That MUST come from within upon and during gaining an understanding of the exterior forces at play. It is also an acceptance of the unknowable and the skill to work around that in your daily life, consciousness and existence. Spirituality isn't a verb. It's a result and you aren't "utterly and unequivocally" disagreeing since the search of it can be unknown. If unknown, it's up to the one seeking it to find that path as, like morality, it isn't universally agreed upon. The known ways to spirituality are easiest (& best imo) since they provide guidelines to it. Now I may actually agree with the notion that being spiritual is hard to describe and thus unexplainable, but it can be pretty easy to know why one is spiritual if they did anything at all to get to that point. Nice deflection about what the 'known ways' lead you to in your case n your 'religion'! What if those guidelines are immoral and hypocritical, as in the case that I outlined above with the children being killed at Armageddon? |
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Post by goz on Feb 28, 2018 21:09:31 GMT
I've said it before, but I just like associating spirituality with man's mental life/experience, a firsthand account of how experiences seem to us. If you don't believe in the supernatural then I don't know what else it could realistically mean. Yes, that ties in nicely with my own perception. To me however there is something else. I don't believe in the supernational at all however to me there is a kind of wonder about the things that to me are inexplicable experiences and events that have no apparent explanation. These are things I don't understand completely and if can be anything from the start of the universe, and anything that cannot be explained even by the most advanced (so far) science, statistics and mainly metaphysics. The things to which 'I don't know' is the only answer. It is the feelings of wonder, that is stimulated by art love and natural beauty...I don't know...I can't explain it. |
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Post by goz on Feb 28, 2018 21:13:28 GMT
That's a good start. The human psyche seems to have a need for something that transcends logic and rationality. It's a tragedy of epic proportions that organized religion has co-opted this with what tend to be hateful, oppressive, not to mention silly ideologies. I couldn't agree more. This is the current discussion I am having with CoolJGS who subscribes to such a religion. He is currently doing mental gymnastics to unsuccessfully reconcile his beliefs with a moral 'spirituality'. (ie the dogma of his church) |
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Post by goz on Feb 28, 2018 21:17:26 GMT
What is it to you? I will start the conversation butt this is by no means a definitive definition just thoughts. To me this is obvious if you are a theist and believe in a 'supernatural' god. Your 'spirituality' is outlined for you though person exploration can be useful. Some, through their religious beliefs have the spirituality 'contained'( IMHO) by the dogma of the religion. If you aren't a theist, it gets a little harder. However to me, spirituality encompasses the exploration of everything that by rational thought, logic, knowledge and science, I still can't understand. As an agnostic atheist I don't believe in a god, yet because I don't understand it completely, there is room for exploration. As a person interested in Buddhist philosophy, I like to explore my personal experience, consciousness and how it relates to my responsibility for my self and for others ( including the animal world and the environment ) without guidance from an outside source. Something to think about to start the dialogue? I would say that it is being at one with your surroundings, or living in the current moment (kind of a Taoist way of thinking, I know). I must say your answer surprises me Clusium, however having said that I agree with you in the sense that we all look to make sense of our place in the world and our consciousness at any one time is really the only thing we constantly have. I would go further and postulate that we all do that in different ways and follow different paths to this end. |
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Post by clusium on Feb 28, 2018 23:10:57 GMT
I would say that it is being at one with your surroundings, or living in the current moment (kind of a Taoist way of thinking, I know). I must say your answer surprises me Clusium, however having said that I agree with you in the sense that we all look to make sense of our place in the world and our consciousness at any one time is really the only thing we constantly have. I would go further and postulate that we all do that in different ways and follow different paths to this end. Indeed. I think it should be noted that our minds can only postulate what is in our own environment anyway. Eg: when we dream at night, no matter how strange those dreams may be, they are always from something or someone we had encountered at some point. Any person you see in your dreams, is somebody you either currently know, or once knew, or even once met, as your mind cannot make up faces. |
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Post by goz on Feb 28, 2018 23:35:27 GMT
I must say your answer surprises me Clusium, however having said that I agree with you in the sense that we all look to make sense of our place in the world and our consciousness at any one time is really the only thing we constantly have. I would go further and postulate that we all do that in different ways and follow different paths to this end. Indeed. I think it should be noted that our minds can only postulate what is in our own environment anyway. Eg: when we dream at night, no matter how strange those dreams may be, they are always from something or someone we had encountered at some point. Any person you see in your dreams, is somebody you either currently know, or once knew, or even once met, as your mind cannot make up faces. Funny story! I was once in a meditation class at yoga. It was in the evening and I was a sleep deprived young mother. We did all the arse over head stuff, the wobbling on one leg and contortionist, then we did out meditative relaxation. Well apparently I was gone in a few minutes and snored. I was ostracized and laughed at and have never gone back to a yoga class, since. I was also having a wonderful dream. |
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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2018 0:04:10 GMT
Indeed. I think it should be noted that our minds can only postulate what is in our own environment anyway. Eg: when we dream at night, no matter how strange those dreams may be, they are always from something or someone we had encountered at some point. Any person you see in your dreams, is somebody you either currently know, or once knew, or even once met, as your mind cannot make up faces. Funny story! I was once in a meditation class at yoga. It was in the evening and I was a sleep deprived young mother. We did all the arse over head stuff, the wobbling on one leg and contortionist, then we did out meditative relaxation. Well apparently I was gone in a few minutes and snored. I was ostracized and laughed at and have never gone back to a yoga class, since. I was also having a wonderful dream. They ostracized you for snoring?!?!  |
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Post by goz on Mar 1, 2018 0:35:36 GMT
Funny story! I was once in a meditation class at yoga. It was in the evening and I was a sleep deprived young mother. We did all the arse over head stuff, the wobbling on one leg and contortionist, then we did out meditative relaxation. Well apparently I was gone in a few minutes and snored. I was ostracized and laughed at and have never gone back to a yoga class, since. I was also having a wonderful dream. They ostracized you for snoring?!?! Yep! It was more evidence of sleeping when I was supposed to be 'meditating' and mindful! |
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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2018 0:39:06 GMT
They ostracized you for snoring?!?! Yep! It was more evidence of sleeping when I was supposed to be 'meditating' and mindful! But sleeping is the perfect way of being meditating & mindful!!!!!  |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Mar 1, 2018 3:36:20 GMT
I've said it before, but I just like associating spirituality with man's mental life/experience, a firsthand account of how experiences seem to us. If you don't believe in the supernatural then I don't know what else it could realistically mean. Yes, that ties in nicely with my own perception. To me however there is something else. I don't believe in the supernational at all however to me there is a kind of wonder about the things that to me are inexplicable experiences and events that have no apparent explanation. These are things I don't understand completely and if can be anything from the start of the universe, and anything that cannot be explained even by the most advanced (so far) science, statistics and mainly metaphysics. The things to which 'I don't know' is the only answer. It is the feelings of wonder, that is stimulated by art love and natural beauty...I don't know...I can't explain it. Absolutely the awe/wonder we feel at the unknown is a major aspect of what we'd call "spiritual experiences," and I think this can happen with many things. I've often called music, movies, and literature I've found profoundly moving "spiritual," and I think what I mean by such experiences is that they're things that affected me in a powerful way that I don't/didn't fully comprehend on an intellectual level. So we might even say that the spiritual encompasses mental experiences that we can't fully intellectualize at the time. But I do think it's good to distinguish between "I can't explain it" and "it can't be explained" or "the cause was supernatural;" it's the latter two ideas of spirituality I don't buy. |
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Post by goz on Mar 1, 2018 4:19:52 GMT
Yes, that ties in nicely with my own perception. To me however there is something else. I don't believe in the supernational at all however to me there is a kind of wonder about the things that to me are inexplicable experiences and events that have no apparent explanation. These are things I don't understand completely and if can be anything from the start of the universe, and anything that cannot be explained even by the most advanced (so far) science, statistics and mainly metaphysics. The things to which 'I don't know' is the only answer. It is the feelings of wonder, that is stimulated by art love and natural beauty...I don't know...I can't explain it. Absolutely the awe/wonder we feel at the unknown is a major aspect of what we'd call "spiritual experiences," and I think this can happen with many things. I've often called music, movies, and literature I've found profoundly moving "spiritual," and I think what I mean by such experiences is that they're things that affected me in a powerful way that I don't/didn't fully comprehend on an intellectual level. So we might even say that the spiritual encompasses mental experiences that we can't fully intellectualize at the time. But I do think it's good to distinguish between "I can't explain it" and "it can't be explained" or "the cause was supernatural;" it's the latter two ideas of spirituality I don't buy. Agreed...and it is this whole 'spirituality' DEFINED as religious nonsensical explanations, that really annoys me. IF every time you gape in awe at a wonder of nature, an unexpected love or joy, or a delight in something so beautiful.. and someone says... Yes God...... |
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