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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 11:28:39 GMT
Yes, yes it is. Talent is secondary
How utterly demeaning to get a job based more on race or ethnicity than merit. Loathsome. |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 20, 2018 11:42:10 GMT
Yeah, pretty stupid.
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Father Jack
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Post by Father Jack on Mar 20, 2018 12:36:07 GMT
Doesn't quite sit right with me.
But something needs doing. Look at the amount of BAME players in the game, and how few go on in to coaching/management.
Is that because of some institutional bias? Or because they choose not to? I don't know.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Mar 20, 2018 13:03:33 GMT
Yes, yes it is. Talent is secondary
How utterly demeaning to get a job based more on race or ethnicity than merit. Loathsome. Mandatory? Everyone should have a problem with that. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 13:21:50 GMT
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the content of their character but by the colour of their skin.
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Post by WullieFort on Mar 20, 2018 13:34:29 GMT
I think it would help if mankind adopted the colour schemes of the chameleon.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 14:11:00 GMT
About time they started hiring some brothers.  Out of the 92 clubs in the football league, there are only 4 black managers. - 22 out of 482 senior coaching positions at professional clubs are held by coaches from BAME backgrounds: 4.6% of all positions of this kind. 9 out of those 22 are hired by just 4 clubs (Palace, Brighton, Reading, QPR) - 10 out of 248 senior coaching positions at first team level at professional clubs (4%) are held by BAME coaches. While more than 25% of players are from BAME backgrounds. www.kickitout.org/news/sports-peoples-think-tank-publish-latest-bame-coaching-statistics/#.WrEQRX8uCCg |
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Mar 20, 2018 14:13:13 GMT
Even if this affirmative action/racial quota/positive discrimination hiring thing was put in to place how long until people like 'Kick It Out' would whinge of 'tokenism'?
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Mar 20, 2018 14:21:53 GMT
About time they started hiring some brothers. Out of the 92 clubs in the football league, there are only 4 black managers. - 22 out of 482 senior coaching positions at professional clubs are held by coaches from BAME backgrounds: 4.6% of all positions of this kind. 9 out of those 22 are hired by just 4 clubs (Palace, Brighton, Reading, QPR) - 10 out of 248 senior coaching positions at first team level at professional clubs (4%) are held by BAME coaches. While more than 25% of players are from BAME backgrounds. www.kickitout.org/news/sports-peoples-think-tank-publish-latest-bame-coaching-statistics/#.WrEQRX8uCCgIf you want to hire based on the sake of hiring because quotas then start with English managers in the premier league. How many are there at the moment? Three or four? Or maybe hire on merit instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 14:36:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 14:46:56 GMT
About time they started hiring some brothers. Out of the 92 clubs in the football league, there are only 4 black managers. - 22 out of 482 senior coaching positions at professional clubs are held by coaches from BAME backgrounds: 4.6% of all positions of this kind. 9 out of those 22 are hired by just 4 clubs (Palace, Brighton, Reading, QPR) - 10 out of 248 senior coaching positions at first team level at professional clubs (4%) are held by BAME coaches. While more than 25% of players are from BAME backgrounds. www.kickitout.org/news/sports-peoples-think-tank-publish-latest-bame-coaching-statistics/#.WrEQRX8uCCgIf you want to hire based on the sake of hiring because quotas then start with English managers in the premier league. How many are there at the moment? Three or four? Or maybe hire on merit instead. 6 English managers, 2 Scottish and one Welsh. So 9 out of the 20 are British. Compared to 69.2% of players in Premier League are foreign. (That number would probably be even higher if we only counted regular starters). Edit: it's actually 7 English managers, so 10 out of 20 are British. So if anything English managers are overrepresented. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 15:35:21 GMT
If you want to hire based on the sake of hiring because quotas then start with English managers in the premier league. How many are there at the moment? Three or four? Or maybe hire on merit instead. Edit: it's actually 7 English managers, so 10 out of 20 are British. So if anything English managers are overrepresented. 7 English mangers in the top flight of the English game and they're... overrepresented? What magical times we live in. Meanwhile in Spain, it's 16 managers out of 20. Those God-damn facist scum!! |
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Mar 20, 2018 15:47:30 GMT
If you want to hire based on the sake of hiring because quotas then start with English managers in the premier league. How many are there at the moment? Three or four? Or maybe hire on merit instead. 6 English managers, 2 Scottish and one Welsh. So 9 out of the 20 are British. Compared to 69.2% of players in Premier League are foreign. (That number would probably be even higher if we only counted regular starters). Edit: it's actually 7 English managers, so 10 out of 20 are British. So if anything English managers are overrepresented. Overrepresented? Big Sam is a stop-gap manager for one. Underrepresented might be better in regards to English managers. 70% foreigners? Why is nobody complaining about that? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 15:55:03 GMT
Edit: it's actually 7 English managers, so 10 out of 20 are British. So if anything English managers are overrepresented. 7 English mangers in the top flight of the English game and they're... overrepresented? In comparison to the percentage of English players, yes. I mean we are dealing with a small sample here, but it isn't an abnormal number. And I imagine the percentage of English managers goes up steeply if we count all 92 League clubs, which isn't something you could say for black managers or coaches. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 15:57:20 GMT
6 English managers, 2 Scottish and one Welsh. So 9 out of the 20 are British. Compared to 69.2% of players in Premier League are foreign. (That number would probably be even higher if we only counted regular starters). Edit: it's actually 7 English managers, so 10 out of 20 are British. So if anything English managers are overrepresented. 70% foreigners? Why is nobody complaining about that? People do, constantly! Try and keep up there. Plus we already have a home grown quota. Why is no one complaining about that? |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 20, 2018 16:02:27 GMT
About time they started hiring some brothers. Out of the 92 clubs in the football league, there are only 4 black managers. - 22 out of 482 senior coaching positions at professional clubs are held by coaches from BAME backgrounds: 4.6% of all positions of this kind. 9 out of those 22 are hired by just 4 clubs (Palace, Brighton, Reading, QPR) - 10 out of 248 senior coaching positions at first team level at professional clubs (4%) are held by BAME coaches. While more than 25% of players are from BAME backgrounds. www.kickitout.org/news/sports-peoples-think-tank-publish-latest-bame-coaching-statistics/#.WrEQRX8uCCgIf you want to hire based on the sake of hiring because quotas then start with English managers in the premier league. How many are there at the moment? Three or four? Or maybe hire on merit instead. There is a problem about the hiring on merit argument in the EPL. There's no way anyone can convince me Alan Pardew for example was hired on merit! |
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Mar 20, 2018 16:13:23 GMT
If you want to hire based on the sake of hiring because quotas then start with English managers in the premier league. How many are there at the moment? Three or four? Or maybe hire on merit instead. There is a problem about the hiring on merit argument in the EPL. There's no way anyone can convince me Alan Pardew for example was hired on merit! I'd say he was hired on experience. He managed clubs before. Pardew and Big Sam are stop gaps until someone else comes up and that someone else will not be English. What is the success rate of English managers in regards to silver? A league or fa cup trophy? Not much at all. What English manager could walk in to the job at Man U or Man City these days. I'll say none. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 17:25:46 GMT
Getting back to the point here, I'm guessing some of you live in some kind of fantasy world where racial discrimination doesn't exist, where jobs are given on merit to the best candidates. The problem is, that world doesn't exist. Never has done. In the real world, with regular jobs, there have been numerous studies where the same CV is sent out multiple times to employers, with the same qualifications, attending the same schools/colleges, with exactly the same experience. The only difference on the CVs is the name of the applicant. Some given "white" names, some given "ethnic" names. And every study shows the same thing. That the CVs with the "white" sounding names are far more likely to get an interview. Here is one such study, where the applicants with ethnic sounding names would have had to send out 74% more CVs to get the same amount of interviews as the "white" sounding candidates. www.natcen.ac.uk/media/20541/test-for-racial-discrimination.pdfSo what plausible explanations are there in the above study, other than racial discrimination? So back to football, there is very likely an inherit unfairness going on here which discriminates against black and ethnic minorities when it comes to coaching and management jobs. It's not an ideal situation, where we have to introduce quotas to try and rectify the unfairness on black coaches (although even with this plan, BAME coaches will still be massively under-represented). So the question really boils down to, which is more unfair... black coaches getting an opportunity? or black coaches not getting an opportunity? |
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 20, 2018 17:38:32 GMT
More politics in sports.
Like how some complain that white guys dominate the coaching ranks in US sports.
No kidding....I wonder why?
Could it have something to do with the fact that black players dominate on the field and white players start pursuing coaching jobs as early as high school and college because they know they have no shot at a pro career?
So somehow it's a problem that white players are relegated to doing the jobs with the lowest pay, longest hours, and least amount of glory and fame.
That's the definition of looking for something to complain about. Close to 70% of the US population is white and sports like NFL and NBA are dominated by black players. ...That's perfectly fine of course. Merit based system is the way to go there. But if 70% of the population pursuing coaching jobs results in them dominating that less desirable field...suddenly there is a problem!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 18:02:53 GMT
More politics in sports. Like how some complain that white guys dominate the coaching ranks in US sports. No kidding....I wonder why? Could it have something to do with the fact that black players dominate on the field and white players start pursuing coaching jobs as early as high school and college because they know they have no shot at a pro career? So somehow it's a problem that white players are relegated to doing the jobs with the lowest pay, longest hours, and least amount of glory and fame. That's the definition of looking for something to complain about. Close to 70% of the US population is white and sports like NFL and NBA are dominated by black players. ...That's perfectly fine of course. Merit based system is the way to go there. But if 70% of the population pursuing coaching jobs results in them dominating that less desirable field...suddenly there is a problem! Well in soccer at least, I don't know of any players who start doing their coaching badges at school, I think almost all of them start in their late 20s, early 30s when the game is almost up, or after they retire. The only exceptions I know of are the guys whose careers get finished early by injury. And getting a job in coaching is very different to getting your first pro contract. When you are turning professional, you would have had to go to trials, get signed by a team, train with them for years in their youth team/academy, and then you (might) get your first pro contract in your late teenage years only after they've seen you play extensively. When you get your first coaching or management job, no one really knows for sure whether you are going to be good at it or not, because no one has ever seen you do it before you've been given the opportunity, so you really need your employer to take a leap of faith in you. So coaching or management jobs are very likely more prone to bias. |
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