|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 26, 2018 14:41:35 GMT
Nonsense aside, this post-credit scene is moderately fascinating if you're a New Yorker.
After exiting the building, Steve ran east along 47th street over to Broadway and then proceeded to head south towards 46th street. We know his starting position because you can see the Barimore Theater behind him in the shot when he runs out of the building. (Incidentally, he passes a clearly visible American flag without seeing it. That's okay though, there are dozens of them outside of office buildings in the Times Square area). This shot implies that the SHIELD holding facility is located somewhere inside the Morgan Stanley headquarters building.
When he turned on Broadway, he would have seen an enormous LED display for the Bank of America (it's in the next shot).
When he meets Fury, who has his back to 46th street, clearly visible over his shoulder would have been a U.S. Marine Core recruiting center and the Times Square N.Y.P.D. precinct - both are adorned with obnoxiously large LED displays of American flags.
Everyone Steve encounters speaks unaccented English. This is important because if this was an Axis power charade, why would the guards be yelling in English once he broke out of the holding room? Bilingual guards would not be necessary for this type of operation.
Add to this the fact that the first person who seems to have any authority or control over the situation is an African American male who uses standard American military jargon. (This wouldn't have gone over well in Hitler's Germany or Hirohito's Japan).
Now, granted, none of this tells you who won the war. However, it does make it clear that at least NY has not been overwhelmed or occupied by Axis forces.
This is a mildly amusing thought experiment. If you were a super soldier from the WWII era past suddenly thrust into the future in NYC, Times Square c. 2011, would you be able to tell who the war without asking anyone? And, if so, how long would it take for you to figure it out?
|
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Mar 26, 2018 15:26:27 GMT
Yeah you're looking at it a bit too deep. The writer of the movie wrote a script with characters a certain way. In this script he would cared about WW2 and so it was filmed that way. Just because that bit of dialogue along with other things were cut doesn't just make his character go a 180 The character didn't make a 180. Steve Rogers joined the Army because he saw that the other soldiers were getting the girls so he wanted to join the Amry so that he could get girls too. And the theatrical ending (without Steve Rogers asking who won the war) confirmed that by showing that Steve Rogers didn't give a shit about who won the war and only cared about getting inside Peggy Carter's panties. |
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 26, 2018 15:30:14 GMT
If you were a super soldier from the WWII era past suddenly thrust into the future in NYC, Times Square c. 2011, would you be able to tell who the war without asking anyone? And, if so, how long would it take for you to figure it out? A patriotic soldier that layed his life on the line, that Steve was shown to be still would be inquisitive enough to know how the war was won, how many died, how long the war went on For, at what cost was a win achieved etc. Hes Captain America after all, but the film decides to focus elsewhere. |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Mar 26, 2018 15:32:56 GMT
Nonsense aside, this post-credit scene is moderately fascinating if you're a New Yorker. After exiting the building, Steve ran east along 47th street over to Broadway and then proceeded to head south towards 46th street. We know his starting position because you can see the Barimore Theater behind him in the shot when he runs out of the building. (Incidentally, he passes a clearly visible American flag without seeing it. That's okay though, there are dozens of them outside of office buildings in the Times Square area). This shot implies that the SHIELD holding facility is located somewhere inside the Morgan Stanley headquarters building. When he turned on Broadway, he would have seen an enormous LED display for the Bank of America (it's in the next shot). When he meets Fury, who has his back to 46th street, clearly visible over his shoulder would have been a U.S. Marine Core recruiting center and the Times Square N.Y.P.D. precinct - both are adorned with obnoxiously large LED displays of American flags. Everyone Steve encounters speaks unaccented English. This is important because if this was an Axis power charade, why would the guards be yelling in English once he broke out of the holding room? Bilingual guards would not be necessary for this type of operation. Add to this the fact that the first person who seems to have any authority or control over the situation is an African American male who uses standard American military jargon. And a Japanese soldier who was frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo would've seen plenty of Japanese signs and Japanese flags in Tokyo. Most people on the street would be speaking Japanese and the police would be Japanese and speak Japanese also. So by your argument, he can assume that Japan won WW2, right? I've already proven that the "signs in English" and "American flags in Times Square" argument is a flawed argument for making the assumption who won the war based on that. it does make it clear that at least NY has not been overwhelmed or occupied by Axis forces. And Tokyo wasn't overwhelmed or occupied by Allied forces after WW2. So you're saying that a Japanese soldier frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo can assume that Japan won WW2. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 26, 2018 15:38:11 GMT
Nonsense aside, this post-credit scene is moderately fascinating if you're a New Yorker. After exiting the building, Steve ran east along 47th street over to Broadway and then proceeded to head south towards 46th street. We know his starting position because you can see the Barimore Theater behind him in the shot when he runs out of the building. (Incidentally, he passes a clearly visible American flag without seeing it. That's okay though, there are dozens of them outside of office buildings in the Times Square area). This shot implies that the SHIELD holding facility is located somewhere inside the Morgan Stanley headquarters building. When he turned on Broadway, he would have seen an enormous LED display for the Bank of America (it's in the next shot). When he meets Fury, who has his back to 46th street, clearly visible over his shoulder would have been a U.S. Marine Core recruiting center and the Times Square N.Y.P.D. precinct - both are adorned with obnoxiously large LED displays of American flags. Everyone Steve encounters speaks unaccented English. This is important because if this was an Axis power charade, why would the guards be yelling in English once he broke out of the holding room? Bilingual guards would not be necessary for this type of operation. Add to this the fact that the first person who seems to have any authority or control over the situation is an African American male who uses standard American military jargon. And a Japanese soldier who was frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo would've seen plenty of Japanese signs and Japanese flags in Tokyo. Most people on the street would be speaking Japanese and the police would be Japanese and speak Japanese also. So by your argument, he can assume that Japan won WW2, right? I've already proven that the "signs in English" and "American flags in Times Square" argument is a flawed argument for making the assumption who won the war based on that. it does make it clear that at least NY has not been overwhelmed or occupied by Axis forces. And Tokyo wasn't overwhelmed or occupied by Allied forces after WW2. So you're saying that a Japanese soldier frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo can assume that Japan won WW2. You haven't proven anything, you've simply made another false equivalency based on a logical fallacy. Put simply, the premise of your argument is absurd and ludicrous. Just because Steve didn't ask who won the war, that doesn't mean he didn't care about its outcome. It also doesn't somehow negate the years of service he rendered to his country in fighting that same war. Now please take your lunacy and fan fiction somewhere else. |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 26, 2018 15:40:22 GMT
Nonsense aside, this post-credit scene is moderately fascinating if you're a New Yorker. After exiting the building, Steve ran east along 47th street over to Broadway and then proceeded to head south towards 46th street. We know his starting position because you can see the Barimore Theater behind him in the shot when he runs out of the building. (Incidentally, he passes a clearly visible American flag without seeing it. That's okay though, there are dozens of them outside of office buildings in the Times Square area). This shot implies that the SHIELD holding facility is located somewhere inside the Morgan Stanley headquarters building. When he turned on Broadway, he would have seen an enormous LED display for the Bank of America (it's in the next shot). When he meets Fury, who has his back to 46th street, clearly visible over his shoulder would have been a U.S. Marine Core recruiting center and the Times Square N.Y.P.D. precinct - both are adorned with obnoxiously large LED displays of American flags. Everyone Steve encounters speaks unaccented English. This is important because if this was an Axis power charade, why would the guards be yelling in English once he broke out of the holding room? Bilingual guards would not be necessary for this type of operation. Add to this the fact that the first person who seems to have any authority or control over the situation is an African American male who uses standard American military jargon. And a Japanese soldier who was frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo would've seen plenty of Japanese signs and Japanese flags in Tokyo. Most people on the street would be speaking Japanese and the police would be Japanese and speak Japanese also. So by your argument, he can assume that Japan won WW2, right? I've already proven that the "signs in English" and "American flags in Times Square" argument is a flawed argument for making the assumption who won the war based on that. it does make it clear that at least NY has not been overwhelmed or occupied by Axis forces. That wasn't the Allies' goal in the war. Did you even pay attention in history class? Seriously, get checked for Alzheimers. |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Mar 26, 2018 15:42:52 GMT
And a Japanese soldier who was frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo would've seen plenty of Japanese signs and Japanese flags in Tokyo. Most people on the street would be speaking Japanese and the police would be Japanese and speak Japanese also. So by your argument, he can assume that Japan won WW2, right? I've already proven that the "signs in English" and "American flags in Times Square" argument is a flawed argument for making the assumption who won the war based on that. And Tokyo wasn't overwhelmed or occupied by Allied forces after WW2. So you're saying that a Japanese soldier frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo can assume that Japan won WW2. You haven't proven anything, you've simply made another false equivalency based on a logical fallacy. Put simply, the premise of your argument is absurd and ludicrous. Just because Steve didn't ask who won the war, that doesn't mean he didn't care about it's outcome. It also doesn't somehow negate the years of service he rendered to his country in fighting that same war. Now please take your lunacy and fan fiction somewhere else. It's not fan fiction. It was in the movie. Steve Rogers woke in in 2011, was told that he had been asleep for 70 years, and then never asked "Who won the war?", which would've been the 1st question by any patriotic soldier. Not only that, Steve Rogers only response was "Damn it! I was supposed to get laid by Peggy Carter." |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Mar 26, 2018 15:44:49 GMT
And a Japanese soldier who was frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo would've seen plenty of Japanese signs and Japanese flags in Tokyo. Most people on the street would be speaking Japanese and the police would be Japanese and speak Japanese also. So by your argument, he can assume that Japan won WW2, right? I've already proven that the "signs in English" and "American flags in Times Square" argument is a flawed argument for making the assumption who won the war based on that. And Tokyo wasn't overwhelmed or occupied by Allied forces after WW2. So you're saying that a Japanese soldier frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo can assume that Japan won WW2.That wasn't the Allies' goal in the war. Did you even pay attention in history class? Seriously, get checked for Alzheimers. You're saying that it wasn't Allies' goal to overwhelm and occupy the enemies' cities (like Berlin) and possibly divide it into sectors? Also, it doesn't fucking matter what the Allies' goal was. I'm talking about a Japanese soldier being frozen in WW2 and waking up in 2011 in Tokyo so it only matters what the Japanese soldier PERCEIVED was the Allies' goal. The Japanese soldier in WW2 doesn't know what the Allies' goal was so HIS PERCEPTION (as told to him by his Emperor and his superior officers) was that the Allies were the bad guys and the Allies wanted to overwhelm and occupy Japan.
So YES, FROM THE JAPANESE SOLDIERS POINT-OF-VIEW, IT WAS INDEED THE ALLIES' GOAL TO OVERWHELM AND OCCUPY JAPAN. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 26, 2018 16:04:17 GMT
If you were a super soldier from the WWII era past suddenly thrust into the future in NYC, Times Square c. 2011, would you be able to tell who the war without asking anyone? And, if so, how long would it take for you to figure it out? A patriotic soldier that layed his life on the line, that Steve was shown to be still would be inquisitive enough to know how the war was won, how many died, how long the war went on For, at what cost was a win achieved etc. Hes Captain America after all, but the film decides to focus elsewhere. Did you actually see Captain America: The First Avenger? I'm not asking the question to be facetious. I'm curious to know. At what point in the movie does Steve Rogers express unwavering, jingoistic loyalty to the US Army and or Government? Steve specifically and explicitly states that he would like to fight in the war because he doesn't like bullies. He never says he wants to join the Army because he loves America or because he hates Germans. Steve wants to fight on the side of a cause he deems righteous and just. By your understanding of the character, Steve should have been repulsed by the idea of being recruited by a German-American citizen. But, he wasn't. Furthermore, he never gave himself the moniker of Captain America, the US government did, and they did it as a PR stunt to help sell war bonds. Steve went along with this because he knew it would help the allied cause - a cause he believed in very strongly. Who won the war would not have been the very first thing on Steve's mind after just waking up because of the type of person he is. The fate of NYC (which he was desperately trying to save) and the whereabouts of Peggy Carter would have been at the forefront of his mind once he realized that he wasn't in any imminent danger. She was the last person he spoke to, and he cared for her deeply. That said, asking about the war should have been up there too, that was an oversight on the part of the writers, however, unlike DC-Fans's psychotic ravings would suggest, that oversight doesn't automatically make Steve guilty of sedition or completely unconcerned about the outcome of the war. If you don't get who Captain America is, you likely never will. If you do understand the character and you disagree with his views and priorities, that's on you. I would suggest that you not watch any movies or read any literature that features him. |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 26, 2018 16:40:38 GMT
It's not deleted or alternate, it's extended. If it's not in the theatrical release, then it's a deleted scene. And since it provides an alternate ending to what was shown in theaters, it's an alternate ending. And like I said in a previous post, deleted scenes and alternate endings aren't officially considered part of the actual movie. For example, Superman: The Movie and about 70% of Superman II were filmed at the same time. Superman: The Movie had an alternate ending with Superman re-directing 1 of Luthor's rockets into space and the rocket blew up the phantom zone, releasing Zod, Ursa, and Non. That was supposed to be a cliffhanger ending leading into Superman II. But that wasn't shown in the threatrical release. Instead, the threatrical release had no cliffhanger ending for Superman: The Movie. And Superman II began with Superman saving Lois from the bomb in the elevator of the Eiffel Tower (which SMH ripped off by having Spider-Man save Liz from the explosion in the elevator of the Washington Monument) by taking the bomb into space, which blew up the phantom zone, releasing Zod, Ursa, and Non. Since that was in the threatrical release, we have to go by that and not by what was in the deleted scene that was never shown in the theatrical release. Same with First Avenger. We have to go by what was shown in the theatrical release (Cap never asking about who won WW2 because Cap never gave a shit about WW2) rather than what's in a deleted scene. But it isn't alternate or deleted, its an extended scene. As in, an extension. Cap asks Fury about who won the war, he gets his answer. Reason why it was trimmed down was because it dragged on a bit too long and lost the emotional impact of him waking up in modern times and the realization of his broken promise to Peggy. |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 26, 2018 16:41:54 GMT
When Nick Fury told Steve Rogers that he had been asleep for 70 years, Steve Rogers never even asked "Who won the war?" or "Did we win the war?". Any soldier in that situation would've immediately asked who won the war. For example, in The Philadelphia Experiment, David Herdeg (a sailor in the US Navy) and his pal were accidentally transported from WW2 to 1984. When Herdeg asked a civilian (Allison Hayes) what the date was, she said "the 17th". Herdeg then asked her what year it was and she said "1984". Upon learning that he was in 1984, the 1st question that Herdeg asked was "Who won the war?" Steve Rogers never even asked "Who won the war?" Why didn't Steve Rogers care about who won WW2? Some MCU fans claim that Steve Rogers knew who won the war because the signs in Times Square were in English. That is the stupidest argument ever. Saying that Steve Rogers could assume the Allies won WW2 because the signs in Times Square were in English is as stupid as saying that if a Japanese soldier was frozen in WW2 and woke up in 2011 in Tokyo, he could assume that Japan won WW2 because the signs in Tokyo are in Japanese. That's how stupid that argument is. The fact is Steve Rogers didn't know who won WW2 when he first found out that he was in 2011, but Steve Rogers didn't ask about it because Steve Rogers didn't care about it. Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WW2. Now you're just repeating yourself. I'd get evaluated for Alzheimers if I were you. Well, he IS an old man...I'm not lying on that one, he is really is an old timer. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 26, 2018 16:46:55 GMT
Now you're just repeating yourself. I'd get evaluated for Alzheimers if I were you. Well, he IS an old man...I'm not lying on that one, he is really is an old timer. Probably in early stages of dementia, from what we know. |
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 26, 2018 16:52:48 GMT
If you were a super soldier from the WWII era past suddenly thrust into the future in NYC, Times Square c. 2011, would you be able to tell who the war without asking anyone? And, if so, how long would it take for you to figure it out? A patriotic soldier that layed his life on the line, that Steve was shown to be still would be inquisitive enough to know how the war was won, how many died, how long the war went on For, at what cost was a win achieved etc. Hes Captain America after all, but the film decides to focus elsewhere. Because the filmmakers trust the audience enough not to hammer them in with the fact that he is Captain America and is loyal to his country. They already had established how much he cared earlier in the movie with several instances, and they establish he is a very intelligent character so he doesn't need to think out loud to decipher his location and who won or lost the war. Being disappointed by breaking his promise to Peggy hits him hardest because she was the last person he was speaking to before he became frozen in ice. Let's say you were in a similar situation, wouldn't you feel bad that you couldn't have that experience with someone you cared deeply about if you woke up decades later? |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 26, 2018 17:07:40 GMT
If you were a super soldier from the WWII era past suddenly thrust into the future in NYC, Times Square c. 2011, would you be able to tell who the war without asking anyone? And, if so, how long would it take for you to figure it out? A patriotic soldier that layed his life on the line, that Steve was shown to be still would be inquisitive enough to know how the war was won, how many died, how long the war went on For, at what cost was a win achieved etc. Hes Captain America after all, but the film decides to focus elsewhere. So you need to be spoonfed? |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 26, 2018 18:43:16 GMT
That wasn't the Allies' goal in the war. Did you even pay attention in history class? Seriously, get checked for Alzheimers. You're saying that it wasn't Allies' goal to overwhelm and occupy the enemies' cities (like Berlin) and possibly divide it into sectors? Also, it doesn't fucking matter what the Allies' goal was. I'm talking about a Japanese soldier being frozen in WW2 and waking up in 2011 in Tokyo so it only matters what the Japanese soldier PERCEIVED was the Allies' goal. The Japanese soldier in WW2 doesn't know what the Allies' goal was so HIS PERCEPTION (as told to him by his Emperor and his superior officers) was that the Allies were the bad guys and the Allies wanted to overwhelm and occupy Japan.
So YES, FROM THE JAPANESE SOLDIERS POINT-OF-VIEW, IT WAS INDEED THE ALLIES' GOAL TO OVERWHELM AND OCCUPY JAPAN.Seriously, Alzheimer's. Look into it. It'll help you. Also, a careful study of world history too, but Alzheimer's first. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 26, 2018 20:07:52 GMT
That wasn't the Allies' goal in the war. Did you even pay attention in history class? Seriously, get checked for Alzheimers. You're saying that it wasn't Allies' goal to overwhelm and occupy the enemies' cities (like Berlin) and possibly divide it into sectors? Also, it doesn't fucking matter what the Allies' goal was. I'm talking about a Japanese soldier being frozen in WW2 and waking up in 2011 in Tokyo so it only matters what the Japanese soldier PERCEIVED was the Allies' goal. The Japanese soldier in WW2 doesn't know what the Allies' goal was so HIS PERCEPTION (as told to him by his Emperor and his superior officers) was that the Allies were the bad guys and the Allies wanted to overwhelm and occupy Japan.
So YES, FROM THE JAPANESE SOLDIERS POINT-OF-VIEW, IT WAS INDEED THE ALLIES' GOAL TO OVERWHELM AND OCCUPY JAPAN.A Japanese soldier waking up in Shibuya c. 2011 after having been in in suspended animation since WW2 would know that something was amiss. Intermingled with his own native language kanji character-based signage, would also be liberally sprinkled English language signage and iconography. A simple advertisment for a Coca Cola might tell the entire story. He'd see ads for H&M with hundred foot tall photos of gaijin modeling the clothing. He couldn't just explain that away as a complete Axis power victory. There would also be no iconography that represented the man he pledged his life to - the Emperor. And because of the proximity of the nearest US military base to Tokyo, he might even see a fully uniformed US soldier strolling along the busy city center - old glory proudly emblazoned on his shoulder. |
|
|
|
Post by seahawksraawk00 on Mar 26, 2018 21:06:51 GMT
You haven't proven anything, you've simply made another false equivalency based on a logical fallacy. Put simply, the premise of your argument is absurd and ludicrous. Just because Steve didn't ask who won the war, that doesn't mean he didn't care about it's outcome. It also doesn't somehow negate the years of service he rendered to his country in fighting that same war. Now please take your lunacy and fan fiction somewhere else. It's not fan fiction. It was in the movie. Steve Rogers woke in in 2011, was told that he had been asleep for 70 years, and then never asked "Who won the war?", which would've been the 1st question by any patriotic soldier. Not only that, Steve Rogers only response was "Damn it! I was supposed to get laid by Peggy Carter." You're reaching now. You don't think he ask off screen probably?!? |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Mar 26, 2018 22:35:04 GMT
If it's not in the theatrical release, then it's a deleted scene. And since it provides an alternate ending to what was shown in theaters, it's an alternate ending. And like I said in a previous post, deleted scenes and alternate endings aren't officially considered part of the actual movie. For example, Superman: The Movie and about 70% of Superman II were filmed at the same time. Superman: The Movie had an alternate ending with Superman re-directing 1 of Luthor's rockets into space and the rocket blew up the phantom zone, releasing Zod, Ursa, and Non. That was supposed to be a cliffhanger ending leading into Superman II. But that wasn't shown in the threatrical release. Instead, the threatrical release had no cliffhanger ending for Superman: The Movie. And Superman II began with Superman saving Lois from the bomb in the elevator of the Eiffel Tower (which SMH ripped off by having Spider-Man save Liz from the explosion in the elevator of the Washington Monument) by taking the bomb into space, which blew up the phantom zone, releasing Zod, Ursa, and Non. Since that was in the threatrical release, we have to go by that and not by what was in the deleted scene that was never shown in the theatrical release. Same with First Avenger. We have to go by what was shown in the theatrical release (Cap never asking about who won WW2 because Cap never gave a shit about WW2) rather than what's in a deleted scene. But it isn't alternate or deleted It was filmed but not shown in the movie so it was an alternate scene that was deleted. That's what an alternate scene or deleted scene is. And since it's not shown in the movie, it's not officially part of the movie. |
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Mar 26, 2018 22:39:57 GMT
But it isn't alternate or deleted It was filmed but not shown in the movie so it was an alternate scene that was deleted. That's what an alternate scene or deleted scene is. And since it's not shown in the movie, it's not officially part of the movie. So the scenes added to the extended and improved cuts of the DCEU films are not officially part of those films? The better versions don't count? |
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Mar 26, 2018 23:02:45 GMT
It was filmed but not shown in the movie so it was an alternate scene that was deleted. That's what an alternate scene or deleted scene is. And since it's not shown in the movie, it's not officially part of the movie. So the scenes added to the extended and improved cuts of the DCEU films are not officially part of those films? The better versions don't count? Scenes added to extended cuts of a movie for a DVD release count only if the DVD is advertised or promoted as Extended Edition or Ultimate Edition or Director's Cut or something to that effect. If a DVD wasn't advertised or promoted as such, then those scenes not shown in the movie are not officially part of the movie. So the question is "Was there a DVD of The First Avenger containing that deleted or alternate ending and advertised or promoted as Extended Edition or Ultimate Edition or Director's Cut or something to that effect?" If you claim Yes, then provide a link to prove it. Otherwise, that deleted, alternate ending isn't officially part of the movie. |
|
