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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 10:30:23 GMT
Neither of them count that's not how a cinematic universe works, it has to be someone outside their own series coming in. I repeat OUTSIDE OF THEIR OWN SERIES, just because someone got a spin-off from another film does not make it an official Marvel Cinematic Universe, its only just a regular cinematic universe until others outside are brought in. No matter how many times we go over this you are wrong! If you just for once in your life do some research on this you'll see that I am right. No, YOU need to do your research. 1st, trying to claim something isn't a shared universe using the "spin-off" argument is a flawed argument that has already been debunked. The Flash is a spin-off of Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow is a spin-off of The Flash and Arrow, but EVERYONE agrees that Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow are all part of a shared universe. Spin-offs don't matter when it comes to shared universes. Frasier was a spin-off of Cheers, but both shows were a shared universe. 2nd, like I said before, the ONLY requirement for a shared universe is 2 different franchises set in the same universe and sharing 1 or more characters. Now if the Supergirl movie were a sequel to the Superman movies (like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin are sequels to Batman and Batman Returns), then your argument would have validity. But since the Supergirl movie isn't sequel to the Superman movies (we know that for a fact because Superman III was released in 1983 and Supergirl was released in 1984 and the next Superman movie released in 1987 was titled Superman IV: The Quest for Peace and not Superman V: The Quest for Peace so the Supergirl movie isn't a sequel to the Superman movies), that makes the Superman movies and Supergirl 2 different franchises and since they share a character (Jimmy Olsen, played by the same character in both franchises), that makes the Superman movies and Supergirl movie a shared cinematic universe and officially, the 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes. First off Jimmy Olsen does not count he's within the Superman Universe not outside of it! This is what I was getting at about it! As for Arrow this was the flip side of what I was talking about, someone that is actually outside of his own series like Flash showing up instead of someone like Speedy or Black Canary who are or were already apart of Arrow's own show to begin with. Now do you see what I mean between regular shared cinematic universe and larger cinematic universes like DCEU and MCU?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 11:54:03 GMT
First off Jimmy Olsen does not count he's within the Superman Universe not outside of it! This is what I was getting at about it! As for Arrow this was the flip side of what I was talking about, someone that is actually outside of his own series like Flash showing up instead of someone like Speedy or Black Canary who are or were already apart of Arrow's own show to begin with. Barry Allen, Cisco Ramon, and Caitlin Snow were all characters on the Arrow series. There was no Flash series when Barry Allen, Cisco Ramon, and Caitlin Snow first appeared. They were characters on Arrow. Then The Flash series spun off from Arrow and they became characters on The Flash. Sara Lance and Ray Palmer were also characters on Arrow before they became characters on Legends of Tomorrow. And Martin Stein, Jefferson Jackson, Leonard Snart, and Mick Rory were all characters on The Flash before they became characters on Legends of Tomorrow. And EVERYONE would agree that Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow are all part of a shared universe. Similarly, Frasier Crane and Lilith Crane were characters on Cheers before they became characters on Frasier. And EVERYONE would agree that Cheers and Frasier were a shared universe. And similar to Barry Allen, Cisco Ramon, Caitlin Snow, Sara Lance, Ray Palmer, Martin Stein, Jefferson Jackson, Leonard Snart, Mick Rory, Frasier Crane, and Lilith Crane, Jimmy Olsen was a character on 1 franchise (the Superman movies) before he became a character on a different franchise (the Supergirl movie). So Jimmy Olsen does count. So that's 2 different franchises set in the same universe sharing 1 or more characters. That's the definition of a shared universe. So like I've said before, and which neither you nor any other misguided MCU fan has been able to debunk, the Superman movies and the Supergirl movie are both a shared Superman universe and (since they're all DC characters) a shared DC universe and therefore officially the 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes. It has been debunk but you refuse to do the research. No one cares about it anyways except you! Everyone else knows it just a regular old Superman universe and nothing more. Same goes for Deardevil and X-Men. But an argument could be made for Deadpool of actually being a part of the larger MCU.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Apr 3, 2018 12:41:21 GMT
First off Jimmy Olsen does not count he's within the Superman Universe not outside of it! This is what I was getting at about it! As for Arrow this was the flip side of what I was talking about, someone that is actually outside of his own series like Flash showing up instead of someone like Speedy or Black Canary who are or were already apart of Arrow's own show to begin with. Barry Allen, Cisco Ramon, and Caitlin Snow were all characters on the Arrow series. There was no Flash series when Barry Allen, Cisco Ramon, and Caitlin Snow first appeared. They were characters on Arrow. Then The Flash series spun off from Arrow and they became characters on The Flash. Sara Lance and Ray Palmer were also characters on Arrow before they became characters on Legends of Tomorrow. And Martin Stein, Jefferson Jackson, Leonard Snart, and Mick Rory were all characters on The Flash before they became characters on Legends of Tomorrow. And EVERYONE would agree that Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow are all part of a shared universe. Similarly, Frasier Crane and Lilith Crane were characters on Cheers before they became characters on Frasier. And EVERYONE would agree that Cheers and Frasier were a shared universe. And similar to Barry Allen, Cisco Ramon, Caitlin Snow, Sara Lance, Ray Palmer, Martin Stein, Jefferson Jackson, Leonard Snart, Mick Rory, Frasier Crane, and Lilith Crane, Jimmy Olsen was a character on 1 franchise (the Superman movies) before he became a character on a different franchise (the Supergirl movie). So Jimmy Olsen does count. So that's 2 different franchises set in the same universe sharing 1 or more characters. That's the definition of a shared universe. So like I've said before, and which neither you nor any other misguided MCU fan has been able to debunk, the Superman movies and the Supergirl movie are both a shared Superman universe and (since they're all DC characters) a shared DC universe and therefore officially the 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes. Great, except that universe hardly went anywhere. Meanwhile, Marvel took that concept of a shared cinematic universe and redefined what it is and what you can do with it, and many studios have tried to copy it but failed, the Universal Monster universe being an example and DC another one as well as they're skipping all the hard work and bringing their heros together right away
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 12:41:26 GMT
If we're using Supergirl and Superman as an example of a Shared Universe, then this is just another case of Marvel cleaning up DC's mess. DC screwed up the Shared Universe concept and Marvel had to redeem it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 1:50:17 GMT
It has been debunk but you refuse to do the research. No one cares about it anyways except you! Everyone else knows it just a regular old Superman universe and nothing more. Same goes for Deardevil and X-Men. But an argument could be made for Deadpool of actually being a part of the larger MCU. Nope, it hasn't been debunked at all. Because it can't be debunked since it's a fact and facts can't be debunked. And MCU fans seem to care deeply about it since MCU fans constantly try to re-write history by claiming (erroneously) that MCU created the 1st shared cinematic universe. MCU not only wasn't the 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes, MCU wasn't even the 1st shared cinematic universe for Marvel superheroes. And like I said before, since Superman and Supergirl are both DC characters, the Superman movies and Supergirl movie are both a shared Superman universe AND a shared DC universe. Just like the X-Men/Wolverine/Deadpool (and New Mutants in 2019) movies feature X-Men characters but it's still a shared universe. Here we go again, it has be a DC character outside of all the superman characters to be consider an official DC Universe. Supergirl and Jimmy Olson are just more Superman characters. Show me someone other then just superman characters and then you have a DC universe. Other wise its still only just a Superman universe with Supergirl and Jimmy Olson.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Apr 4, 2018 1:57:53 GMT
I love how DC-Fan thinks copying and pasting the same argument over and over again is effective arguing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 2:08:00 GMT
Here we go again, it has be a DC character outside of all the superman characters to be consider an official DC Universe. Supergirl and Jimmy Olson are just more Superman characters. Show me someone other then just superman characters and then you have a DC universe. Other wise its still only just a Superman universe with Supergirl and Jimmy Olson. Nope. Your argument is so stupid that what you're basically saying is that since Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Insurrection, and Star Trek: Nemesis only have characters from The Next Generation, then those movies are only a STTNG universe and not part of a Star Trek universe. That's how stupid your argument is. Those movies only have TNG characters, but they're still part of the bigger Star Trek universe. Likewise, Superman and Supergirl and Jimmy Olsen are all DC characters so those movies are both a shared Superman universe and also part of a bigger shared DC universe. Wrong again' with Star Trek it's pretty straight forward as are with all tv series. But with movies its not always as straight forward as some of the rules are different.
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Post by sostie on Apr 4, 2018 9:07:35 GMT
First off Jimmy Olsen does not count he's within the Superman Universe not outside of it! This is what I was getting at about it! As for Arrow this was the flip side of what I was talking about, someone that is actually outside of his own series like Flash showing up instead of someone like Speedy or Black Canary who are or were already apart of Arrow's own show to begin with. So like I've said before, and which neither you nor any other misguided MCU fan has been able to debunk, the Superman movies and the Supergirl movie are both a shared Superman universe and (since they're all DC characters) a shared DC universe and therefore officially the 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes. My contention isn't that the MCU was the first shared universe, it's that Superman/Supergirl is the template/influence on MCU to create a shared universe. Stop giving credit to something that doesn't deserve it. Marvel were creating shared universes in their comics before the first Superman movie was made..the Superman/Supergirl's existence alone is not any sort of proof or confirmation that it influenced the MCU. You ask any film/CBM fan...name a cinematic shared universe, you won't find anyone that names Superman/Supergirl first if at all. Supergirl is remembered as a turkey, and those that saw it have probably forgotten it had any direct connection at all to the Superman films. Now please stop wasting everybody's time and and maybe perhaps address some things most people would actually be interested to hear your opinions on...like perhaps WONDER MAN'S OSCAR SUCCESS
WONDER WOMAN'S STANDING ON THE RT LIST
"REAL" CRITICS RATING OF MARVEL FILMS
THAT THE MCU NAMED THE BLACK PANTHER CHARACTER, AND DID SO TO APPEAL TO A BLACK AUDIENCE
THAT DC NAMED BLACK LIGHTING BECAUSE OF HIS (BLUE!!!) SUIT AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE COLOUR OF HIS SKINC'mon. Be man. Not a mocked twat
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Post by damngumby on Apr 4, 2018 16:19:43 GMT
Is DC-Fanboy still trying to prop up the Supergirl movie as one of the signature moments in DC cinematic history? Supergirl : DC breaks new ground where a character and his cousin actual reside in the same cinematic universe!The DC trophy case must be a pretty pathetic affair these days if the fans are scrapping the bottom of the barrel with the likes of Supergirl and Suicide Squad for their high points.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 16:21:40 GMT
Is DC-Fanboy still trying to prop up the Supergirl movie as one of the signature moments in DC cinematic history? It started the "Female Superhero movies suck!" trend, if that's what he means...
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Post by harpospoke on Apr 4, 2018 17:41:21 GMT
Yes they can be disputed and I already have! I bet you didn't even bother to look online to find out did you? They will always be regular universes, the MCU did it first and the DCEU came in 2nd. Nope, it can't be disputed because it's a fact. MCU isn't 1st and DCEU isn't 2nd. Heck, MCU isn't even Marvel's first shared cinematic universe and DCEU isn't even DC's first shared cinematic universe. The 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes was the Superman movies and Supergirl. Marvel's 1st shared cinematic universe for superheroes was Daredevil and Elektra. Those are facts that can't be disputed. So you are claiming that two characters who are from the same planet... ...that exploded.... ...and both came to Earth... ...and both got the same super powers... ...and wear the same costume... ...and who also happen to be cousins.... Are two different franchises? Good luck with that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 1:44:24 GMT
So you're claiming that the Superman movies and Supergirl movie are the same franchise, which would make the Supergirl movie a sequel to the Superman movies? Yes. Quest for Peace is an awful movie. You've just pointed out another flaw.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 1:48:38 GMT
Yes. Quest for Peace is an awful movie. You've just pointed out another flaw. I take your answer to the question about why The Quest for Peace was called Superman IV and not Superman V as Further proof of how crap QFP was. They couldn't even get the title right.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Apr 5, 2018 1:54:52 GMT
Further proof of how crap QFP was. They couldn't even get the title right. I take your non-answer to the question about why The Quest for Peace was called Superman IV and not Superman V as your concession that the Supergirl movie isn't a sequel to the Superman movies, which makes them 2 different franchises and makes them officially the 1st shared universe in CBM history. Why the fuck do you keep repeating yourself like that? What is wrong with that brain of yours exactly?
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 2:23:44 GMT
Further proof of how crap QFP was. They couldn't even get the title right. I take your answer to the question about why The Quest for Peace was called Superman IV and not Superman V as Proof that QFP really is that bad, and even if DC tried something they BOTCHED it royally...and as usual it was up to Marvel to fix their mess.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 2:24:42 GMT
Why the fuck do you keep repeating yourself like that? What is wrong with that brain of yours exactly? Because formersamhmd keeps Pointing out that Quest for Peace screwed up its own numbering, and even if it didn't then their attempt at a Universe flopped horribly and Marvel had to work hard to clean up DC's mess. Either way, Marvel did something DC couldn't. A successful Shared World.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 2:26:27 GMT
Proof that QFP really is that bad, and even if DC tried something they BOTCHED it royally...and as usual it was up to Marvel to fix their mess. I'll take your answer to the question about why The Quest for Peace was called Superman IV and not Superman V as Quest for Peace not even getting its' own numbering right. And DC failing at creating a Universe.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 2:30:34 GMT
Quest for Peace not even getting its' own numbering right. And DC failing at creating a Universe. I'll take your answer to the question about why The Quest for Peace was called Superman IV and not Superman V as Proof of how badly made QFP was that it screwed up it's own title. And even if that wasn't the truth, it still shows that after the disaster that was Supergirl (which set back female Superhero films for 30 years) DC failed at a Shared Universe. Whereas Marvel succeeded. So as always, Marvel takes what DC screws up and makes it work. Either way, Marvel comes out looking the better.
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Post by sostie on Apr 5, 2018 8:11:24 GMT
Why the fuck do you keep repeating yourself like that? What is wrong with that brain of yours exactly? Because formersamhmd keeps avoiding the question He avoided a question!!!! And you called him out on it. So which one are you..Mr Pot or Mr Kettle?
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Post by damngumby on Apr 5, 2018 10:34:47 GMT
So you are claiming that two characters who are from the same planet... ...that exploded.... ...and both came to Earth... ...and both got the same super powers... ...and wear the same costume... ...and who also happen to be cousins.... Are two different franchises? Good luck with that. Looks like DC-Fanboy is going all in on the claim that the Supergirl movie is one of the landmark achievements by DC. ... due to a movie about Superman’s female cousin not being titled Superman IV, the Vagina ... or somethin’. Is Superdog it’s own franchise too?
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