|
Post by President Ackbar™ on Apr 8, 2018 1:44:02 GMT
spin-offs are also shared universes.crossovers are also shared universes, regardless of whether or not they're spin-offs. There's a shared universe, and there's a shared neighborhood. The MCU is the former, Superman/Supergirl is the latter. No one thinks of Frasier and Cheers as a shared universe. Wrong. "St. Elsewhere was a very popular, and it continues to be well-respected among people in television. The show did numerous crossover episodes where characters from one series appeared on St. Elsewhere or vice-versa. Crossing Jordan, Cheers, Boston Public, Chicago Hope, The Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, and Homicide: Life on the Street are among the shows that reference St. Elsewhere in a way that makes it clear they are intended to be in the same world.
The characters from St. Elsewhere visited the Cheers bar. Cheers begat Frasier and The Tortellis. Since a crossover or spin-off is a signal that the shows happen in the same television universe, all shows connected to Cheers in that way are also connected to St. Elsewhere. The same goes for all the other shows that St. Elsewhere crossed with. They are all, through common characters, happening in the same television universe."
|
|
|
Post by summers8 on Apr 8, 2018 3:36:34 GMT
the bigger question is why is captain marvel like gotg comedy. WW did world war 1 pretty good. world war 1 is harder to adapt than world war 2. carol is now a Disney comedian. yeah no thanks. You've seen it have you? I mean what sort of person knows such things about films they haven't seen (except DC-Fan) Marvel said captain marvel will be comedy and the gotg villian is in the movie. most of the things i say are already confirmed by marvel that is why they make me cringe. no lie. see facts below collider.com/captain-marvel-action-comedy-tone/
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:39:52 GMT
You've seen it have you? I mean what sort of person knows such things about films they haven't seen (except DC-Fan) Marvel said captain marvel will be comedy and the gotg villian is in the movie. most of the things i say are already confirmed by marvel that is why they make me cringe. no lie. see facts below collider.com/captain-marvel-action-comedy-tone/So they're remembering people act like people instead of all grim bitter crazy jerks, and they'r bringing back villains who were totally serious and in fact puzzled by humor. Sounds good to me.
|
|
|
Post by President Ackbar™ on Apr 8, 2018 4:58:44 GMT
Wrong. "St. Elsewhere was a very popular, and it continues to be well-respected among people in television. The show did numerous crossover episodes where characters from one series appeared on St. Elsewhere or vice-versa. Crossing Jordan, Cheers, Boston Public, Chicago Hope, The Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, and Homicide: Life on the Street are among the shows that reference St. Elsewhere in a way that makes it clear they are intended to be in the same world.
The characters from St. Elsewhere visited the Cheers bar. Cheers begat Frasier and The Tortellis. Since a crossover or spin-off is a signal that the shows happen in the same television universe, all shows connected to Cheers in that way are also connected to St. Elsewhere. The same goes for all the other shows that St. Elsewhere crossed with. They are all, through common characters, happening in the same television universe."That's correct. Another example is Hawaii Five-0, NCIS:LA, and MacGyver. Hawaii Five-0 had a crossover with NCIS:LA and also a crossover with MacGyver. NCIS:LA never had a crossover with MacGyver, but since it's already established that Hawaii Five-0 is in the same universe as NCIS:LA and Hawaii Five-0 is in the same universe as MacGyver, then by extension NCIS:LA and MacGyver are also in the same universe. And by extension, it also means that NCIS, NCIS: New Orleans, and JAG are also in the same universe as Hawaii Five-0 and MacGyver. That's all that's needed for a shared universe: 2 different franchises sharing 1 or more characters. So Superman/Supergirl is a shared universe and officially the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history. daisyb and sostie and all the other MCU fans who claim that Superman/Supergirl isn't a shared universe just got owned!
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Apr 8, 2018 10:34:37 GMT
Wrong. "St. Elsewhere was a very popular, and it continues to be well-respected among people in television. The show did numerous crossover episodes where characters from one series appeared on St. Elsewhere or vice-versa. Crossing Jordan, Cheers, Boston Public, Chicago Hope, The Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, and Homicide: Life on the Street are among the shows that reference St. Elsewhere in a way that makes it clear they are intended to be in the same world.
The characters from St. Elsewhere visited the Cheers bar. Cheers begat Frasier and The Tortellis. Since a crossover or spin-off is a signal that the shows happen in the same television universe, all shows connected to Cheers in that way are also connected to St. Elsewhere. The same goes for all the other shows that St. Elsewhere crossed with. They are all, through common characters, happening in the same television universe."That's correct. Another example is Hawaii Five-0, NCIS:LA, and MacGyver. Hawaii Five-0 had a crossover with NCIS:LA and also a crossover with MacGyver. NCIS:LA never had a crossover with MacGyver, but since it's already established that Hawaii Five-0 is in the same universe as NCIS:LA and Hawaii Five-0 is in the same universe as MacGyver, then by extension NCIS:LA and MacGyver are also in the same universe. And by extension, it also means that NCIS, NCIS: New Orleans, and JAG are also in the same universe as Hawaii Five-0 and MacGyver. That's all that's needed for a shared universe: 2 different franchises sharing 1 or more characters. So Superman/Supergirl is a shared universe and officially the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history. daisyb and sostie and all the other MCU fans who claim that Superman/Supergirl isn't a shared universe just got owned! Actually I was contesting that Superman/Supergirl is not really recognised or defined as a shared universe, is not a good example of a shared universe, is not an influence on the existence of shared universes (regardless of genre) and does not subscribe to the characteristics of the other shared universes before and after it. A shared character equals a shared universe? So it's one because Jimmy Olsen is in both. Wow, that must have really been a lightning bolt of inspiration to the MCU. Hey guy's...did you know Jimmy Olsen is in both Superman and Supergirl ...let's do an expansive, inter linked, interacting, planned out Universe of our own. And they all came up with this whilst suffereing amnesia and forgetting that they had been doing shared universes in their comics for decades before! It seems your arguments are now "concreted" by examples of spin-offs, crossovers and ratings boosting guest appearances. Sorry, but TV and CINEMA are different mediums...you want to go down that route we can and bring Comic Book crossovers into the discussion...but of course that would completely destroy your assertion that Superman/Supergirl influence the MCU wouldn't it? Oh, and please, where has Superman/Supergirl been "officially" assessed as being the first CBM shared universes? By whom? And please, you want to talk about being "owned"! Well you would know what that is like eh....Colonel Klink in Batman...the colour of Black Lightning's costume...MCU creating Black Panther to appeal to a black audience....your terrible math that "proved" IMDB ratings had an MCU bias...claiming Wonder Woman pre-dated Captain America...making up a story about how you got to see Spider-Man Homecoming when it opened and then giving it a rating, discovering later you hadn't actually seen it....I'm sure there are many more Of course you still won't address these (you know like Wonder Woman's Oscar nominations, the RT best CBM list, the "real" critics in China) I look forward to a reply...I do hope it's a classic..one where you ignore the elements where you have been owned, featuring repetition, a misunderstanding of what you are replying to and if we are lucky one of your ridiculous "sports" based analogies.
|
|
|
Post by Power Ranger on Apr 8, 2018 16:26:35 GMT
Also Steel (1997) is a part of the Superman shared universe.
|
|
|
Post by Power Ranger on Apr 8, 2018 16:28:06 GMT
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 16:51:52 GMT
Also Steel (1997) is a part of the Superman shared universe. It isn't, they removed any connection to Superman he had.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Apr 8, 2018 19:16:30 GMT
Actually I was contesting that Superman/Supergirl is not really recognised or defined as a shared universe, is not a good example of a shared universe, is not an influence on the existence of shared universes (regardless of genre) and does not subscribe to the characteristics of the other shared universes before and after it. A shared character equals a shared universe? So it's one because Jimmy Olsen is in both. As I've explained to you many times before (and which you MCU fans seem to be slow at getting), it wasn't just Jimmy Olsen that was a shared character. Once a character from 1 franchise appears in another franchise, that automatically establishes that ALL characters from the 1st franchise are part of the 2nd franchise and vice versa and that both franchise share ALL their characters. So when Batman and Robin appeared on The Green Hornet, that established that Batgirl, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Chief O'Hara, the Joker, Catwoman, the Penguin, the Riddler are ALL part of The Green Hornet show's universe and are ALL shared characters between the 2 shows, even if they never appeared on an episode of The Green Hornet. So that DOES mean Hogan's Heroes and Addam's Family is part of the Batman/Green Hornet shared Universe Well considering that the events in the films series are constantly referenced and have impact on the shows ...yes they are part of the shared universe more than a guest appearance by one character in an episode or two, like Batman. But the most important part...what I highlighted And there is the major factor isn't it. The shows are created specifically to be part of that shared universe and it is stated as such before or during production. The only comparison you have to MCU with regards to film/TV crossovers is probably Star Wars, which also ventured in to a stated and intentional shared universe with The Clone Wars TV show. Like the MCU TV shows they from the beginning intended to be part of that universe. The difference in mediums was pointed out because shared universes on TV are not a good comparisons explaining why a film series, namely Superman/Supergirl is an established shared universe, which lets be honest you are only doing because you think it somehow tarnishes the MCUs achievement. Most of the TV shows mentioned (I admit, there might be an argument for CSI) are just guest appearance and spin-offs...events and shows decided in a short space of time to increase ratings...not a thought out long term attempt at a shared universe. With reference to those particular shows...see above...events in the films have impact, are referenced too AND they share some characters...and it is stated it is part of the Universe Then why do you think the appearance of Jimmy Olsen in Superman and Supergirl in fluenced Marvel to create the MCU and not their own comics You seemed to have ignored some things mentioned in the latter half of my post . On the plus side, no shitty sports analogy.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Apr 8, 2018 22:55:12 GMT
The only comparison you have to MCU with regards to film/TV crossovers is probably Star Wars, which also ventured in to a stated and intentional shared universe with The Clone Wars TV show. You really don't know anything about shared universes. All of the Star Trek movies and TV series are a shared movie/TV universe. Yeah, you're right, I completely forgot about Star Trek (and in one sentence, by admitting fault, I've shown myself to be a bigger man than you ever have on this forum.) Really don't know eh! You still haven't told us...are you Mr Kettle or Mr Pot? Stop reducing to another degree...to superhero movies. I mean you are pretty willing to give non-superhero cinematic universe examples to try and prove Superman/Supergirl is. Shared Universes were done way more successfully and obviously before Superman/Supergirl. That you put so much importance and influence into something that was no more than a an appearance in two different films by Jimmy Olson, one which was utterly forgettable, is frankly hilarious. Still ignoring all those other things mentioned earlier I see.
|
|
|
Post by harpospoke on Apr 9, 2018 2:25:19 GMT
No...those are different movies and TV shows. Still in the same franchise obviously. The Bionic Woman and Six Million Dollar Man are a part of the same franchise. They are practically the same character. No, they're not. Steve Austin was an astronaut. Jaime Sommers was a pro tennis player and then a school teacher. Moreover, the 3rd season of The Bionic Woman was on a different network than The Six Million Dollar Man. So those were clearly 2 different franchises but still part of a shared universe. good luck convincing the world that Marvel didn't start this new shared universe idea that all of Hollywood is suddenly trying to copy. Gee....why didn't that happen before Iron Man if DC did it first? It did happen before Iron Man. Or do you think that Freddy vs Jason in 2003 and Alien vs Predator in 2004 were trying to copy Iron Man, which wasn't released until 2008? Freddy vs Jason and Alien vs Predator weren't influenced by MCU. Freddy vs Jason and Alien vs Predator were influenced by the Superman/Supergirl movies, which was the 1st official shared cinematic universe in CBM history. And MCU was also influenced by the Superman/Supergirl movies, just like MCU is influenced by Superman: The Movie, a fact that even MCU Dictator Kevin Feige has admitted to. Are MCU fans still trying to convince themselves that MCU invented the idea of a shared cinematic universe and actually believe that all other shared cinematic universes are following MCU's invention? Or are MCU fans just too young to remember that the Superman/Supergirl, Freddy vs Jason, and Alien vs Predator shared cinematic universes all existed long before MCU and it's actually MCU that was influenced by those shared cinematic universes?No actually Marvel fans know what really happened. The shared universe idea was previously a desperation move after franchises were long past their prime and the public was losing interest in them. Like the Universal monsters teaming up in the 40s. They were looking for a gimmick to sell tickets. Same with Freddie vs Jason. Obviously that's not what Marvel was doing with Iron Man. You are missing the new idea completely. Marvel started planning the whole thing from the first movie and built it up carefully with that end goal in mind. The exact opposite of the previous shared universes. And just as obviously, your spin-offs were never planned to go anywhere either. Notice how suddenly Batman was in his own universe in 1989? That's because Supergirl was a spin-off of Superman....not a shared universe for DC.
|
|
|
Post by harpospoke on Apr 9, 2018 2:40:07 GMT
The main trait of all shared blah blah blah Repeating yourself doesn't make it right Really They call him Colonel. He is in character. He is looking for an "underground" agent. They ask him to say hello to Hogan. Really? It's not Klink? He is in character. He is playing the harpsichord. The Addam's Family Theme is in the background. Really? It's not Lurch? Oh dear. This isn't going well for you. That's hilarious. I've gotta go back and watch that show again.
|
|
|
Post by harpospoke on Apr 9, 2018 2:41:39 GMT
Oh man...that's gotta be hilarious to watch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 2:42:02 GMT
No, they're not. Steve Austin was an astronaut. Jaime Sommers was a pro tennis player and then a school teacher. Moreover, the 3rd season of The Bionic Woman was on a different network than The Six Million Dollar Man. So those were clearly 2 different franchises but still part of a shared universe. It did happen before Iron Man. Or do you think that Freddy vs Jason in 2003 and Alien vs Predator in 2004 were trying to copy Iron Man, which wasn't released until 2008? Freddy vs Jason and Alien vs Predator weren't influenced by MCU. Freddy vs Jason and Alien vs Predator were influenced by the Superman/Supergirl movies, which was the 1st official shared cinematic universe in CBM history. And MCU was also influenced by the Superman/Supergirl movies, just like MCU is influenced by Superman: The Movie, a fact that even MCU Dictator Kevin Feige has admitted to. Are MCU fans still trying to convince themselves that MCU invented the idea of a shared cinematic universe and actually believe that all other shared cinematic universes are following MCU's invention? Or are MCU fans just too young to remember that the Superman/Supergirl, Freddy vs Jason, and Alien vs Predator shared cinematic universes all existed long before MCU and it's actually MCU that was influenced by those shared cinematic universes?No actually Marvel fans know what really happened. The shared universe idea was previously a desperation move after franchises were long past their prime and the public was losing interest in them. Like the Universal monsters teaming up in the 40s. They were looking for a gimmick to sell tickets. Same with Freddie vs Jason. Obviously that's not what Marvel was doing with Iron Man. You are missing the new idea completely. Marvel started planning the whole thing from the first movie and built it up carefully with that end goal in mind. The exact opposite of the previous shared universes. And just as obviously, your spin-offs were never planned to go anywhere either. Notice how suddenly Batman was in his own universe in 1989? That's because Supergirl was a spin-off of Superman....not a shared universe for DC. Exactly 100%, case closed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 4:50:00 GMT
Exactly 100%, case closed. Yes, 100% case closed. MCU Fans want to re-write history, but they can't change the historical fact that the Superman/Supergirl movies are the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history. Case closed. Godzilla was consider a super hero by the mid 60's and though the 70's by Japan. Which makes the Toho Showa Universe the real 1st cinematic super hero universe which predates both all the DC and Marvel movies.
|
|
|
Post by harpospoke on Apr 9, 2018 6:31:33 GMT
No actually Marvel fans know what really happened. The shared universe idea was previously a desperation move after franchises were long past their prime and the public was losing interest in them. Like the Universal monsters teaming up in the 40s. They were looking for a gimmick to sell tickets. Same with Freddie vs Jason. Obviously that's not what Marvel was doing with Iron Man. You are missing the new idea completely. Marvel started planning the whole thing from the first movie and built it up carefully with that end goal in mind. The exact opposite of the previous shared universes. And just as obviously, your spin-offs were never planned to go anywhere either. Notice how suddenly Batman was in his own universe in 1989? That's because Supergirl was a spin-off of Superman....not a shared universe for DC. Spin-offs are still shared universe. Like I've explained to you MCU fans many times before (and which you MCU fans seem slow to understand), The Flash is a spin-off of Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow is a spin-off of both Arrow and The Flash. But EVERYONE still considers all 3 shows to be part of a shared universe. Same with the Superman/Supergirl movies. The Superman/Supergirl movies is a shared cinematic universe. No matter how much you MCU fans want to re-write history, that doesn't change the fact that Superman/Supergirl is the 1st official shared cinematic universe in CBM history. And you keep harping on a dead idea here. Shared universes existed long before your Supergirl spin-off movie. They certainly existed in the comics long before that....first by Marvel. And just like the movie examples over the years, the shared universes in the comics were really just an idea for a gimmick to sell comics. So Marvel obviously didn't invent the shared universe. What Marvel invented was the idea to build one from the beginning into something unique that had never been done before. ....Which they did. Your reach for "Supergirl" is not remotely the same thing. It was a one time spin-off that was discarded immediately. By 1989, the next DC superhero movie featured Batman in his own universe and that's the way it stayed until DC copied Marvel's idea for their DCU and TV shows later.
|
|
|
Post by harpospoke on Apr 9, 2018 7:20:58 GMT
Shared universes existed long before your Supergirl spin-off movie. No one said the Superman/Supergirl movies was the 1st shared cinematic universe ever. What I said is the Superman/Supergirl movies was the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history. And that's a historical fact that can't be changed no matter how much MCU fans want to re-write history. Again...you are arguing a dead point. There is no history change. The shared universe idea predated Supergirl by decades obviously. The comics were doing it before that too so it was nothing new. If Supergirl was the start of a shared universe it would have continued in the next DC movie not related to the Superman family. But when it's just s spin-off that doesn't happen. So of course Batman 89 had nothing to do with the Supergirl spin-off. There is nothing special about doing a spin-off in the Superman universe. Hardly a "shared universe" when it's the Superman universe to begin with. If they shared it with Batman that would be something. But they didn't do that obviously because it was just a spin-off that had nothing to do with other DC characters. Your "shared universe" claim stopped at the end credits of Supergirl. That's a historical fact. They certainly existed in the comics long before that....first by Marvel. Again, no one has ever disputed that. Marvel had the 1st shared universe for superheroes in the comics with their Fire vs Water (Human Torch vs Sub-Mariner) issue. That's a historical fact. And it's also a historical fact that DC had the 1st shared universe for superheroes on radio, DC was part of the 1st shared universe for superheroes on TV, and DC had the 1st shared universe for superheroes in the movies. And you keep talking about something that isn't relevant to what Marvel did. There is a reason why you are trying to avoid talking about the unique idea that Marvel brought to the table....what they are getting credit for...and what Hollywood is now trying to copy. ...That includes DC. There is a reason DC didn't do what Marvel did before Marvel...because Marvel did it first. This was not something they did with the Supergirl spinoff. Heck...WB was so uninterested in the movie they didn't even get credited. It's beyond obvious that DC is now copying Marvel....not a 1984 Supergirl movie. This fact appears to be bothering you as you invent some farcical fantasy world where DC came up with the idea first. Never mind that you don't even seem to understand what the idea is. It wasn't a gimmick. It wasn't a desperate ploy to save a fading franchise. It was started at the very beginning with a plan to end up with the very unique Avengers movie. Something DC didn't come close to "doing first" so your whole claim rests on something that's not even a part of the discussion.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 11:29:22 GMT
The shared universe idea predated Supergirl by decades obviously. Do you know how to read? I've already said many times before that no one said the Superman/Supergirl movie was the 1st shared cinematic universe ever. What I've said is that the Superman/Supergirl movie was the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history, which is a historical fact that can't be changed no matter how much MCU fans want to re-write history. Doesn't matter, what DOES matter is that they botched it and Marvel had to clean up their mess. Crappily.
|
|
|
Post by damngumby on Apr 9, 2018 13:06:11 GMT
DC did do it before Marvel. DC had the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history a quarter-century before MCU. That's a historical fact that can't be changed no matter how much MCU fans want to re-write history. Holy crap! Are you guys still circling the drain on this argument? It has devolved into a bit of a yes it is, no it isn't stalemate. Fortunately, DC-Fanboy has provided the solution to this impasse. He claims that the 1st shared cinematic universe in CBM history is a historical fact that can't be re-written. So, if that is true, DC-Fan should be able to show everyone where it has been written. Provide a few links that establish it as a historical fact, agreed upon by a majority of superhero aficionados. If DC-Fanboy can do that, then he wins the argument. If DC-Fanboy does not do that, then his argument FAILS ... and it can be dismissed as just another one of his unsupported hair-brained efforts to give DC credit for something it does not deserve. It's called, put up or shut up. The clock starts ticking .... now.
|
|
|
Post by ghostintheshell on Apr 9, 2018 13:09:15 GMT
More like Ronan the Accuser = Steppenwolf
|
|