Lugh
Sophomore
@dcu
Posts: 848
Likes: 77
 
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Post by Lugh on Mar 31, 2018 16:13:55 GMT
How exactly is that supposed to stop mass shootings? Is the hope that someone like Nicolas Cruz will suddenly change their mind about committing a mass shooting or something? Is wanting to commit a mass shooting just some sort of childhood phase that one goes through? What a bizarre proposal!
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 31, 2018 20:01:08 GMT
How exactly is that supposed to stop mass shootings? Is the hope that someone like Nicolas Cruz will suddenly change their mind about committing a mass shooting or something? Is wanting to commit a mass shooting just some sort of childhood phase that one goes through? What a bizarre proposal! Raising the minimum drinking age to 21 is often reported to have had an effect in reducing fatalities due to drunk driving. I'm not in favor of raising the age for all guns to 21. However, it might be beneficial to raise the age for buying semi-automatic firearms and I'd say that even 25 might be a good idea and that's coming from the board's biggest supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. So we'd have 18 for all shotguns and rifles that aren't semi-automatic (commonly viewed as hunting or target weapons-single-shot, double barrel, lever action, slide action, bolt-action), 21 for handguns that aren't semi-automatic (revolvers, derringers, bolt-action match pistols), and 25 for all semi-automatics regardless of whether they are handguns, rifles or shotguns and regardless of whether they have internal or detachable magazines. This last group would mean that a person would have to wait until age 25 to buy some of the more popular "hunting" guns but there's nothing a hunter or target shooter can do with a semi-automatic that they can't do with a lever, slide or bolt action and, in most cases, one of those three is a better choice anyway. This would require compromise on both "sides" meaning both sides would find reasons to bitch and whine. |
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Lugh
Sophomore
@dcu
Posts: 848
Likes: 77
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Post by Lugh on Mar 31, 2018 20:05:46 GMT
How exactly is that supposed to stop mass shootings? Is the hope that someone like Nicolas Cruz will suddenly change their mind about committing a mass shooting or something? Is wanting to commit a mass shooting just some sort of childhood phase that one goes through? What a bizarre proposal! Raising the minimum drinking age to 21 is often reported to have had an effect in reducing fatalities due to drunk driving. I'm not in favor of raising the age for all guns to 21. However, it might be beneficial to raise the age for buying semi-automatic firearms and I'd say that even 25 might be a good idea and that's coming from the board's biggest supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. So we'd have 18 for all shotguns and rifles that aren't semi-automatic (commonly viewed as hunting or target weapons-single-shot, double barrel, lever action, slide action, bolt-action), 21 for handguns that aren't semi-automatic (revolvers, derringers, bolt-action match pistols), and 25 for all semi-automatics regardless of whether they are handguns, rifles or shotguns and regardless of whether they have internal or detachable magazines. This last group would mean that a person would have to wait until age 25 to buy some of the more popular "hunting" guns but there's nothing a hunter or target shooter can do with a semi-automatic that they can't do with a lever, slide or bolt action and, in most cases, one of those three is a better choice anyway. This would require compromise on both "sides" meaning both sides would find reasons to bitch and whine. The youth are reckless with their drink and eventually grow out of it. Wanting to commit a mass shooting is not something you just grow out of like being a stupid kid. It certainly is not some sort of childhood phase. |
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 31, 2018 20:13:18 GMT
Raising the minimum drinking age to 21 is often reported to have had an effect in reducing fatalities due to drunk driving. I'm not in favor of raising the age for all guns to 21. However, it might be beneficial to raise the age for buying semi-automatic firearms and I'd say that even 25 might be a good idea and that's coming from the board's biggest supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. So we'd have 18 for all shotguns and rifles that aren't semi-automatic (commonly viewed as hunting or target weapons-single-shot, double barrel, lever action, slide action, bolt-action), 21 for handguns that aren't semi-automatic (revolvers, derringers, bolt-action match pistols), and 25 for all semi-automatics regardless of whether they are handguns, rifles or shotguns and regardless of whether they have internal or detachable magazines. This last group would mean that a person would have to wait until age 25 to buy some of the more popular "hunting" guns but there's nothing a hunter or target shooter can do with a semi-automatic that they can't do with a lever, slide or bolt action and, in most cases, one of those three is a better choice anyway. This would require compromise on both "sides" meaning both sides would find reasons to bitch and whine. The youth are reckless though, and eventually grow out of it. Wanting to commit a mass shooting is not something you just grow out of like being a stupid kid. It certainly is not some sort of childhood phase. Yet a large majority of mass shootings at schools have been committed by people under 25 and usually under 21 - Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland... No solution is going to be perfect but until both sides come to the table and the anti-gun crowd stops going after all semi-automatics with detachable magazines no matter the buyer's age (knowing full well that's just a first step toward eventually banning even more types of guns) and the pro-gun side stops thinking that everybody of any age should be able to buy any type of gun - then nothing is going to be accomplished. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 31, 2018 20:24:52 GMT
The youth are reckless though, and eventually grow out of it. Wanting to commit a mass shooting is not something you just grow out of like being a stupid kid. It certainly is not some sort of childhood phase. Yet a large majority of mass shootings at schools have been committed by people under 25 and usually under 21 - Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland... No solution is going to be perfect but until both sides come to the table and the anti-gun crowd stops going after all semi-automatics with detachable magazines no matter the buyer's age (knowing full well that's just a first step toward eventually banning even more types of guns) and the pro-gun side stops thinking that everybody of any age should be able to buy any type of gun - then nothing is going to be accomplished. Lucky guess. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 31, 2018 20:37:58 GMT
There is a joke on Facebook, sorry I don't have a link. A women is supposedly saying in one picture (faked photos), "If we outlaw abortion women will just get them illegally." In another picture (actually the same except the words) she says, "If we outlaw guns then we'll all be safe."
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Lugh
Sophomore
@dcu
Posts: 848
Likes: 77
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Post by Lugh on Mar 31, 2018 20:51:45 GMT
The youth are reckless though, and eventually grow out of it. Wanting to commit a mass shooting is not something you just grow out of like being a stupid kid. It certainly is not some sort of childhood phase. Yet a large majority of mass shootings at schools have been committed by people under 25 and usually under 21 - Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland... No solution is going to be perfect but until both sides come to the table and the anti-gun crowd stops going after all semi-automatics with detachable magazines no matter the buyer's age (knowing full well that's just a first step toward eventually banning even more types of guns) and the pro-gun side stops thinking that everybody of any age should be able to buy any type of gun - then nothing is going to be accomplished. Is that really a surprise though? There are a number of examples of people following certain patterns of psychological/ideological development. An example of one that comes to mind is how most young people think their culture is "hip" or "cool" and most old people talk about how their culture was so much better and dont understand how young people like what they like. People who commit mass shootings are no doubt psychopaths who cannot sympathize with people. Psychopathy is now recognized by the scientific community as being biologically determined. |
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 31, 2018 20:55:55 GMT
Yet a large majority of mass shootings at schools have been committed by people under 25 and usually under 21 - Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland... No solution is going to be perfect but until both sides come to the table and the anti-gun crowd stops going after all semi-automatics with detachable magazines no matter the buyer's age (knowing full well that's just a first step toward eventually banning even more types of guns) and the pro-gun side stops thinking that everybody of any age should be able to buy any type of gun - then nothing is going to be accomplished. Is that really a surprise though? There are a number of examples of people following certain patterns of psychological/ideological development. People who commit mass shootings are no doubt psychopaths who cannot sympathize with people. Psychopathy is now recognized by the scientific community as being biologically determined. And I support better mental health screening as part of the background check for buying any gun. Unfortunately, in the U.S., the major party most likely to claim that mass shootings are a mental health issue is also the party most likely to reject increased government spending on any type of health. |
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Post by captainbryce on Mar 31, 2018 21:25:00 GMT
How exactly is that supposed to stop mass shootings? Is the hope that someone like Nicolas Cruz will suddenly change their mind about committing a mass shooting or something? Is wanting to commit a mass shooting just some sort of childhood phase that one goes through? What a bizarre proposal! It’s bizarre how small minded far right gun nuts are that they can’t even work through basic logic without fabricating straw man arguments. NOBODY claimed that raising the minimum age to purchase a weapon would stop all mass shootings. Try to comprehend that first! It’s a non argument. The actually argument is that a school age child should not be legally allowed to purchase a firearm, thus limiting the chances that he’d be able to take that weapon to school. If someone is too young and not responsible enough to buy an alcoholic beverage, then logically they shouldn’t be able to purchase an AR-15 either (for the same reason). As it stands now, there is nothing to stop a high school senior from buying a weapon legally, and then taking it to school to rampage his classmates and teachers! |
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Post by mslo79 on Apr 4, 2018 9:49:59 GMT
It won't. raising age to 21 is a joke. I think a decent starting point to this whole school shooting stuff is to have armed security guards at schools. like say retired cops or military and the like. but all people ever complain about is 'ban guns' pretty much every time someone goes on a shooting spree. captainbryceMaybe, but my counter to that is... at 18 years old one is old enough to die for ones country, but yet they can't drink. looking at things this way tends to put a hole in your argument there a bit as if one is old enough to die for ones country they should have all adult privileges etc. plus, whether it's a AR-15 or another gun... does not matter all that much as if someone is determined to kill a lot of people chances are they can do it especially given the way things are now in schools where people are sitting ducks. they need retired police (and the like) to be armed at schools throughout the USA as that's better than more gun restrictions that do nothing to stop school shootings and just screws over the gun owners more and more. because whether someone is for or against guns... gun owners want their guns and anti-gun types want to get rid of them and neither side is likely to change and laws won't change much in terms of guns as they are already restrictive enough as it is etc (either way, you can't go too far either way of how things are now because you can't make it overly difficult for the common person to own weapons as it's a constitutional right and this is basically unchangeable as this is the USA). so with that in mind... it seems people/politicians would put more effort into ways to keep school safer if they are serious about deterring school shootings, or at least minimizing the damage. |
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 4, 2018 13:58:19 GMT
I think a decent starting point to this whole school shooting stuff is to have armed security guards at schools. like say retired cops or military and the like. This I actually agree with. but all people ever complain about is 'ban guns' pretty much every time someone goes on a shooting spree. I think that’s an oversimplification of opposing views (and selective arguments that you choose to focus on). There are certainly a small minority of those who believe that guns should be banned, but that’s hardly the majority. Most Americans on the left and right support the Second Amendment. Casting everyone who believes in stronger gun control measures as “anti gun” or “anti Second Amendment” is a straw man argument. captainbryce Maybe, but my counter to that is... at 18 years old one is old enough to die for ones country, but yet they can't drink. looking at things this way tends to put a hole in your argument there a bit as if one is old enough to die for ones country they should have all adult privileges etc. On the contrary. Because those who sign up to fight for their country are given guns by the government to do exactly that. They are weapons trained and armed BECAUSE they’ve decided to go above and beyond the call of duty. I think there is an argument to be made that “18 year old adults” who do this should be afforded certain rights and privileges that “18 year old children” who don’t do not not have. An 18 year old who joins the military SHOULD be allowed to buy a drink. Should the drinking age limit be lowered to 18 nationwide for everyone else? Hell no! plus, whether it's a AR-15 or another gun... does not matter all that much as if someone is determined to kill a lot of people chances are they can do it Most gun experts (and specifically AR-15 experts) who’ve testified to this seem to disagree with you (as it contradicts both physics and logic). The unique firing characteristics of the AR-15 and other assault style weapons are ideal for those who want to commit mass shootings. That’s why they tend to be the weapon of choice for mass shooters in the US, and why they tend to be involved in the deadliest mass shootings. Like I said, I agree with you about armed guards in schools. I also favor metal detectors and x ray machines ala TSA checkpoints. What I do not favor is TEACHERS being armed, and expecting to confront an active shooting. That’s not what they signed up for, it’s not what we pay them for, and there is no guarantee that a gun in the classroom would provide a safe learning environment for children. There are many reasons to believe that it would create the opposite. |
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Post by thefleetsin on Apr 4, 2018 14:21:03 GMT
it's interesting to watch the spin
revolving around and in
cultures of death
who truly believe
they have something to win.
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