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Post by damngumby on Apr 6, 2018 17:37:58 GMT
... by only watching the movies? An earlier thread on the MCU timeline kinda fizzled out after I ask this question. Apparently, no one could find an error under the condition stated above. These movies are our sole window to this MCU universe. It is reasonable to say that if an error doesn’t exist in the movies, then it doesn’t exist … regardless of what someone may have said in a podcast or posted on a website. From dialog discussed in the previous thread, I extrapolated the following timeline. Year 0 : Iron Man Year 0.5 Iron Man 2 Year 1 : The Avengers Year 6 : The Winter Soldier Year 8 : Civil War Year 9 : SHM I don’t believe there is anything said or shown in any of the movies that establish the exact date they occurred, only the order of the events and the amount of time that may have elapsed between them. This timeline is only a starting point. It very well may change as more information is presented in this thread … and if someone finds a true discrepancy, it may fail altogether. Let the chips fall where they may. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 6, 2018 20:08:31 GMT
I'd have to go back and really pay attention to the dialog in every movie since Avengers. In the other thread, I think someone mentioned that in Civil War (2016), Secretary Ross says something about the Avengers working without oversight for four years. This matches up with the timeline of the Avengers release in 2012. Yet SMH happens pretty much immediately after CW and it apparently takes place 8 years after Avengers.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Apr 6, 2018 20:15:08 GMT
I'd have to go back and really pay attention to the dialog in every movie since Avengers. In the other thread, I think someone mentioned that in Civil War (2016), Secretary Ross says something about the Avengers working without oversight for four years. This matches up with the timeline of the Avengers release in 2012. Yet SMH happens pretty much immediately after CW and it apparently takes place 8 years after Avengers. Not that it really matters but they had oversight from SHIELD up until The Winter Soldier, so he may be referring to roughly 4 after those events. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 6, 2018 20:24:24 GMT
I just rewatched the Sokovia Accords debate scene and found a flaw. Vision says it's been 8 years since Stark announced himself as Iron Man (which again matches up with the original timeline of the MCU release dates with IM coming out in 2008). Again, Homecoming apparently takes place immediately after CW and is apparently 8 years after Avengers. This would place IM and the Avengers in the same year, and that makes no sense just by the storyline, never mind the release dates.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 6, 2018 20:28:06 GMT
I'd have to go back and really pay attention to the dialog in every movie since Avengers. In the other thread, I think someone mentioned that in Civil War (2016), Secretary Ross says something about the Avengers working without oversight for four years. This matches up with the timeline of the Avengers release in 2012. Yet SMH happens pretty much immediately after CW and it apparently takes place 8 years after Avengers. Not that it really matters but they had oversight from SHIELD up until The Winter Soldier, so he may be referring to roughly 4 after those events. That still doesn't work unless CW is supposed to take place four years after TWS. Ross says they've been operating without oversight for four years. And doesn't Sam say something about tracking Bucky for two years in CW? Agreed, it's no big deal. I've said it time and again, I don't care about the timeline issue that much. It's all just dialog that's been screwed up, it isn't as if actual events are ruining continuity. |
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Post by scabab on Apr 6, 2018 20:28:24 GMT
The Avengers was set a year after Iron Man 2 so that would make it Year 1.5.
But yeah as I pointed out before. Civil War was set 8 years after Iron Man. Spider-man Homecoming was set a couple months after Civil War so ideally it should be 6 years after The Avengers but instead it's 8 years.
Though I don't know what it was in reference to, Dennis said Winter Solider was 2 years after The Avengers. I'm not sure if that was mentioned in the movie or was from an outside source though.
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Post by damngumby on Apr 7, 2018 2:34:46 GMT
You guys are making the same mistakes that have been made in previous timeline threads - citing dates and elapsed time that were not established in the movies.
If you can introduce something, actually seen or heard in one of the movies, that would be helpful. Otherwise, it’s just pointless chatter that only serves to derail the thread and attract trolls.
My current timeline takes into account the 4 year statement by Ross in WS, the reasonable assumption that SMH takes place a few months after CW, the 8 year statement by Vision in CW, the 8 year title card in SMH, the 2 year statement by Falcon in CW.
Here are some further guidelines to aid in a productive discussion.
1. The MCU timeline is assumed to be intact until a preponderance of evidence indicates otherwise.
2. Acceptable evidence is a quoted statement by a character or a description of something seen in the movie. Do not say, “the Avengers was set a year after Iron Man 2” without the evidence from one of the movies to support it.
3. Periods of time mentioned in the movies are assumed to be rounded to the nearest year. When a character says 8 years, it is reasonable to conclude that the actual elapsed time is somewhere between 7.5 and 8.5 years. It is unreasonable to conclude that all events occur precisely on the anniversary of previous events.
4. It is assumed that character recollection is accurate, within the margin of error mentioned above.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 7, 2018 3:46:31 GMT
The problem is that the timeline was fine according to the dialog, until Homecoming. Now you're instituting rules that change everything just to make sense of the Homecoming flub. According to the dialog in CW, Tony has been IM for eight years, the Avengers have been operating without oversight for four years, and Cap and Falcon have been tracking Bucky for two years. That simply doesn't add up, using your timeline. If there are only two years between TWS and CW, how have they been operating without oversight for four years?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 7, 2018 10:36:45 GMT
You guys are making the same mistakes that have been made in previous timeline threads - citing dates and elapsed time that were not established in the movies. If you can introduce something, actually seen or heard in one of the movies, that would be helpful. Otherwise, it’s just pointless chatter that only serves to derail the thread and attract trolls. My current timeline takes into account the 4 year statement by Ross in WS, the reasonable assumption that SMH takes place a few months after CW, the 8 year statement by Vision in CW, the 8 year title card in SMH, the 2 year statement by Falcon in CW. Here are some further guidelines to aid in a productive discussion. 1. The MCU timeline is assumed to be intact until a preponderance of evidence indicates otherwise. 2. Acceptable evidence is a quoted statement by a character or a description of something seen in the movie. Do not say, “the Avengers was set a year after Iron Man 2” without the evidence from one of the movies to support it. 3. Periods of time mentioned in the movies are assumed to be rounded to the nearest year. When a character says 8 years, it is reasonable to conclude that the actual elapsed time is somewhere between 7.5 and 8.5 years. It is unreasonable to conclude that all events occur precisely on the anniversary of previous events. 4. It is assumed that character recollection is accurate, within the margin of error mentioned above. Honestly it would be nice if Marvel Studios released an official timeline. |
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Post by damngumby on Apr 7, 2018 12:33:50 GMT
According to the dialog in CW, Tony has been IM for eight years, the Avengers have been operating without oversight for four years, and Cap and Falcon have been tracking Bucky for two years. That simply doesn't add up, using your timeline. If there are only two years between TWS and CW, how have they been operating without oversight for four years? This was addressed in the other thread. I’ll consolidate/update my argument from that thread. Ross said that during CA:CW, which was year 8 of my timeline, 7 years after The Avengers. That means that someone watching the movies would logically conclude that the objectionable level of free reign Ross is talking about started in year 4, sometime between The Avengers (year 1) and Winter Soldier (year 6). Presumably, the Avengers were not completely dormant between those two movie. The reasonable conclusion is they did something in year 4 that raised the hackles of various governments and initiated the call for oversight.
Remember, Ross was listing off a bunch of Avengers incidents and Rogers stopped him from continuing with, “That’s enough”. It is reasonable for anyone watching the movie to assume that there were additional incidents not mentioned.
This entire argument is predicated on the assumption that we’ve been shown everything the Avengers have been up to since the events of The Avengers movie.
... which is unreasonable. The goal here is not to force a break in the timeline with hasty assumptions. As you can see, the Ross statement can easily be explained without breaking the timeline. |
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Post by scabab on Apr 7, 2018 12:34:26 GMT
I looked into a lot after my last post. The scripts for the movies have been posted online and there are problems. This is just based purely on dates that show up on screen or actual dialogue.
Captain America began in 1942 and ended in 1945 when he was frozen.
In Avengers he tells Nick Fury he'd slept for 70 years which should make it 2015.
That's impossible because Iron Man 3 started in 1999 and later on Killian says he asked Stark to join AIM 13 years so that movie was in 2012.
Yet Iron Man 3 takes place after Avengers.
Spider-man Homecoming during the detention scene gives a different date entirely when Captain America now says he was frozen for 65 years and there he's wearing his Avengers 1 costume making it so now Avengers was set in 2010.
Now that actually works because Iron Man 2 happened a year before so 2009 and Iron Man was six months earlier but also the year before so 2008 and now Hogan carrying the ring since 2008 works. If Spider-man Homecoming was in 2018 they even get away with the 8 years.
However Civil War was only 2 months prior so should be 2018 as well and it wouldn't be 8 years since Stark said he was Iron Man but 10.
In Age of Ultron, at the end of the movie, Captain America mentions that he was frozen 75 years ago which would make it 2020. It would make it either 5 or 10 years after Avengers based on the two different dates he gave.
It can't be 2020 though because it would make Winter Soldier as taking place in 2019 and they said Captain America was born in 1918 and he was 95 years old in that movie which would set it in 2013 which should mean that Age of Ultron was in 2014 and Civil War and Spider-man Homecoming in 2015.
But...if Age of Ultron was in 2014 then Captain America couldn't have been frozen 75 years ago because that would make it 1939. It would only be 69 years, a year less than the 70 years he mentioned in Avengers which took place years before Age of Ultron.
That was probably a confusing mess of a post and I don't know if anyone can make head or tail of what I said but that's what I got.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 7, 2018 13:39:30 GMT
I looked into a lot after my last post. The scripts for the movies have been posted online and there are problems. This is just based purely on dates that show up on screen or actual dialogue. Captain America began in 1942 and ended in 1945 when he was frozen. In Avengers he tells Nick Fury he'd slept for 70 years which should make it 2015. That's impossible because Iron Man 3 started in 1999 and later on Killian says he asked Stark to join AIM 13 years so that movie was in 2012. Yet Iron Man 3 takes place after Avengers. Spider-man Homecoming during the detention scene gives a different date entirely when Captain America now says he was frozen for 65 years and there he's wearing his Avengers 1 costume making it so now Avengers was set in 2010. Now that actually works because Iron Man 2 happened a year before so 2009 and Iron Man was six months earlier but also the year before so 2008 and now Hogan carrying the ring since 2008 works. If Spider-man Homecoming was in 2018 they even get away with the 8 years. However Civil War was only 2 months prior so should be 2018 as well and it wouldn't be 8 years since Stark said he was Iron Man but 10. In Age of Ultron, at the end of the movie, Captain America mentions that he was frozen 75 years ago which would make it 2020. It would make it either 5 or 10 years after Avengers based on the two different dates he gave. It can't be 2020 though because it would make Winter Soldier as taking place in 2019 and they said Captain America was born in 1918 and he was 95 years old in that movie which would set it in 2013 which should mean that Age of Ultron was in 2014 and Civil War and Spider-man Homecoming in 2015. But...if Age of Ultron was in 2014 then Captain America couldn't have been frozen 75 years ago because that would make it 1939. It would only be 69 years, a year less than the 70 years he mentioned in Avengers which took place years before Age of Ultron. That was probably a confusing mess of a post and I don't know if anyone can make head or tail of what I said but that's what I got. Saying he slept for 70 years could just be him rounding the number off. People usually don't give the exact number when it get's high unless you are being nerdy about it. |
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Post by scabab on Apr 7, 2018 14:19:44 GMT
Saying he slept for 70 years could just be him rounding the number off. People usually don't give the exact number when it get's high unless you are being nerdy about it. It could be but then why would he use a different figure in Spider-man Homecoming where he said 65 years? Why didn't he round off that time? Wouldn't Age of Ultron be more accurate to round as 70 years and not 75? Going by the official timeline that Marvel have out back in 2012, it should actually be 65 years. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 7, 2018 14:34:14 GMT
Saying he slept for 70 years could just be him rounding the number off. People usually don't give the exact number when it get's high unless you are being nerdy about it. It could be but then why would he use a different figure in Spider-man Homecoming where he said 65 years? Why didn't he round off that time? Wouldn't Age of Ultron be more accurate to round as 70 years and not 75? Going by the official timeline that Marvel have out back in 2012, it should actually be 65 years. No cause you round off with 5 or 10 or 100 or 1000 or 1 million etc. |
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Post by scabab on Apr 7, 2018 15:19:13 GMT
No cause you round off with 5 or 10 or 100 or 1000 or 1 million etc. But if in The Avengers Cap had been frozen for 65 years then that wouldn't need rounding up to 70 years and if Spider-man Homecoming was set a little after The Avengers then why only say 65 years there. The Avengers should be about 65 years after Captain America and Age of Ultron shouldn't be that long after that it should even be rounded up to 75 years. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 7, 2018 15:40:31 GMT
No cause you round off with 5 or 10 or 100 or 1000 or 1 million etc. But if in The Avengers Cap had been frozen for 65 years then that wouldn't need rounding up to 70 years and if Spider-man Homecoming was set a little after The Avengers then why only say 65 years there. The Avengers should be about 65 years after Captain America and Age of Ultron shouldn't be that long after that it should even be rounded up to 75 years. Because I'm guessing it is between 65 and 70 years. And rounding up or even down is just a way of giving a number to things. You don't say 20 months, you say 2 years. The same as not saying 27 months, but also saying 2 years. You get what I'm saying? |
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Post by damngumby on Apr 7, 2018 15:46:34 GMT
I looked into a lot after my last post. The scripts for the movies have been posted online and there are problems. This is just based purely on dates that show up on screen or actual dialogue. Captain America began in 1942 and ended in 1945 when he was frozen. In Avengers he tells Nick Fury he'd slept for 70 years which should make it 2015. That's impossible because Iron Man 3 started in 1999 and later on Killian says he asked Stark to join AIM 13 years so that movie was in 2012. Yet Iron Man 3 takes place after Avengers. Spider-man Homecoming during the detention scene gives a different date entirely when Captain America now says he was frozen for 65 years and there he's wearing his Avengers 1 costume making it so now Avengers was set in 2010. Now that actually works because Iron Man 2 happened a year before so 2009 and Iron Man was six months earlier but also the year before so 2008 and now Hogan carrying the ring since 2008 works. If Spider-man Homecoming was in 2018 they even get away with the 8 years. However Civil War was only 2 months prior so should be 2018 as well and it wouldn't be 8 years since Stark said he was Iron Man but 10. In Age of Ultron, at the end of the movie, Captain America mentions that he was frozen 75 years ago which would make it 2020. It would make it either 5 or 10 years after Avengers based on the two different dates he gave. It can't be 2020 though because it would make Winter Soldier as taking place in 2019 and they said Captain America was born in 1918 and he was 95 years old in that movie which would set it in 2013 which should mean that Age of Ultron was in 2014 and Civil War and Spider-man Homecoming in 2015. But...if Age of Ultron was in 2014 then Captain America couldn't have been frozen 75 years ago because that would make it 1939. It would only be 69 years, a year less than the 70 years he mentioned in Avengers which took place years before Age of Ultron. That was probably a confusing mess of a post and I don't know if anyone can make head or tail of what I said but that's what I got. In an effort to distill this post, I put facts that I could confirm in bold blue. Facts I could not confirm are in blue. If you could show where you got the unconfirmed facts, I can then apply your new information to my timeline and see if it survives. |
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Post by scabab on Apr 7, 2018 16:59:06 GMT
In an effort to distill this post, I put facts that I could confirm in bold blue. Facts I could not confirm are in blue. If you could show where you got the unconfirmed facts, I can then apply your new information to my timeline and see if it survives. 1. Winter Soldier has Black Widow ask Cap if it was his first kiss since 1945. Cap says it wasn't and that's he's 95 and not dead. 2. In the same movie Zola mentions having been captured by him in 1945. In that scene Zola states aloud that Cap was born in 1918 and Black Widow was born in 1984. 3. Iron Man 2 took place on the same week as Thor and Incredible Hulk. In The Avengers, Nick Fury tells them all that last year they had a visitor referring to The Destroyer. Black Widow also tells Banner he'd gone over a year without an incident. 4. In Iron Man 2 they show Tony Stark on screen announcing he's Iron Man then on screen it says six months later. 5. Spider-man Homecoming shows Peter Parker returning from the country he went to to fight The Avengers and then on screen it says two months later. |
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