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Post by Cody™ on Apr 12, 2018 15:45:28 GMT
If you could revise the 10 commandments, which one’s would you leave out and what would you add and why?
Serious answers please.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 12, 2018 15:59:32 GMT
I would only keep three. Do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness.
I like the Golden or Silver rule; and these three guidelines match my personal ethics.
The first two commandments (according to Luther) only concern relationship between humans and God; and the latter probably doesn't exist.
The third commandment about the Sabbat is a nice one, but should be up to the human. Even Jesus supposedly said that the Sabbat is there for humans, not the other way round.
In my opinion it's the parents who should honor their children. After all, the children didn't ask to be brought into this world.
Adultery should be a matter between the concerned parties. If two people are ok about having an open relationship, why shouldn't they sleep around? As long ad they're honest about their intentions and don't sleep with others under false pretenses.
The last two commandments try to prohibit thoughtcrime. Humans should know that it's not what you think that matters, it's what you do.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 12, 2018 16:02:46 GMT
I would leave in the ones Jesus did.
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Post by Vegas on Apr 12, 2018 16:23:29 GMT
I dunno...
I think we need a mediator for a new contract like that..
If we are being legally obligated to worship The One True God, and only The One True God..... We are going to need some assurances that He proves His existence more than once every two thousand years.
No Murder and No Stealing seems like natural keepers.
The one day of rest?... Okay. You twisted my arm.... Any chance of converting the planet to a giant Bahamas?
No graven images?..... Uhhhhhh.... My bust of Thanos is a No-go?.... NO GO!
Not taking The Lord's Name in vain?...... Any chance of a Divine guarantee that we no longer stub our toes?
Honoring your parents?.... We need better parents.
No coveting?.... But my neighbor has a lot of cool shit... and a reaaaally hot wife.
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Post by Cody™ on Apr 12, 2018 17:21:45 GMT
phludowin Agreed. But wouldn't you agree also that observing the sabbat can and does indeed have a lot of meaningful impact on one's life? Yes but if we're to generally respect and love our fellow humans, doesn't it make sense that it should in start in the home, no? LOL This type of attitude sums up everything that's currently wrong with the secular atheistic liberal stance. How is speaking falsely(lying) or unjustly against another a "thought crime"? Also you say you would keep the do not murder or steal commandments, but don't you think one who covets their neighbour's things is far more likely to press ahead and murder, steal, rape, blackmail and endanger others to get what they want?
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Post by Cody™ on Apr 12, 2018 17:24:27 GMT
I would leave in the ones Jesus did. Which pretty much link and cover all ten commandments. Christ said the two most important commandments are to love and respect God and to love and respect your fellow humans. If followed properaly the first four commandments show us how to love and respect God. The next six show us how to love and respect our neighbours.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 12, 2018 17:29:24 GMT
I would leave in the ones Jesus did. Which pretty much link and cover all ten commandments. Yep, the commandments are redundant for legal purposes.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 12, 2018 20:11:05 GMT
But wouldn't you agree also that observing the sabbat can and does indeed have a lot of meaningful impact on one's life? I guess so, but it depends on the individual. Yes but if we're to generally respect and love our fellow humans, doesn't it make sense that it should in start in the home, no? Then why not just formulate "Respect your fellow humans the way you want to be respected"? The Golden Rule, so to speak? But I believe that the society of the time when the 10 commandments were written was a society where children were not considered individuals, but extensions of their parents. LOL This type of attitude sums up everything that's currently wrong with the secular atheistic liberal stance. Considering there's nothing wrong with a secular atheistic liberal stance, I guess you are right in a sense. There's nothing wrong with consentual adultery. How is speaking falsely(lying) or unjustly against another a "thought crime"? Are you referring to the commandment against bearing false witness? Because that's the eighth one. Therefore, not one of the two last ones. And bearing false witness (speaking falsely) is not a thought crime; it's doing something wrong. Also you say you would keep the do not murder or steal commandments, but don't you think one who covets their neighbour's things is far more likely to press ahead and murder, steal, rape, blackmail and endanger others to get what they want? Not necessarily. As I said, you can think whatever you want. Only when you do something (or say something), it becomes a matter of interest.
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Post by johnblutarsky on Apr 12, 2018 20:53:27 GMT
If you could revise the 10 commandments, which one’s would you leave out and what would you add and why? Serious answers please.Ah, man!
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Post by Cody™ on Apr 12, 2018 22:37:55 GMT
phludowinNah bearing false witness is actually the ninth one. 👇 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me. 2. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything. 3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. 4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 5. Honor your father and your mother. 6. You shall not murder. 7. You shall not commit adultery. 8. You shall not steal. 9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property.
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Post by goz on Apr 12, 2018 22:52:05 GMT
phludowin Nah bearing false witness is actually the ninth one. 👇 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me. 2. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything. 3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. 4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 5. Honor your father and your mother. 6. You shall not murder. 7. You shall not commit adultery. 8. You shall not steal. 9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property. Of those as presented, not murder, steal or lie (though this one has a few exceptions in the white department for a greater good) The rest have no moral authority.
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 12, 2018 22:54:44 GMT
How about instead of remembering the Sabbath day, thou shalt reserve a period of every day for prayer? I pray every day, but as a woman, I have to work every day.
I like the one about not misusing the name of the Lord your God, but it should be clarified--it's not just about uttering profanities; it's about not committing acts against others because "the Bible says so" or because someone claims to know better than others what God wants. This would include all those self-righteous types who think their religion is the only true on and everybody else is going to hell, wars begun for "religious" reasons, etc.
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Post by goz on Apr 12, 2018 22:58:00 GMT
How about instead of remembering the Sabbath day, thou shalt reserve a period of every day for prayer? I pray every day, but as a woman, I have to work every day. I like the one about not misusing the name of the Lord your God, but it should be clarified--it's not just about uttering profanities; it's about not committing acts against others because "the Bible says so" or because someone claims to know better than others what God wants. This would include all those self-righteous types who think their religion is the only true on and everybody else is going to hell, wars begun for "religious" reasons, etc. Why should everyone have to pray?
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Post by phludowin on Apr 12, 2018 23:20:20 GMT
phludowin Nah bearing false witness is actually the ninth one. 👇 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me. 2. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything. 3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. 4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 5. Honor your father and your mother. 6. You shall not murder. 7. You shall not commit adultery. 8. You shall not steal. 9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property. Not according to the German churches, which is why I mentioned Luther in my first post on this thread. The numbering is as follows: 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything. 2. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. 3. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 4. Honor your father and your mother. 5. You shall not murder. 6. You shall not commit adultery. 7. You shall not steal. 8. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, or property. I guess the separation of the covet-commandments was to draw parallels to the 6th and 7th commandments. So the only commandments I consider worthy of consideration are 5, 7 and 8 in German numbering; 6, 8 and 9 according to English numbering.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 12, 2018 23:28:55 GMT
I would take out "love thy father and number" (they could be complete assholes), revise "tough shall not kill" to allow killing in self defense but abolish the death penalty. I would get rid of the "do not take thy lord's name in vain" or "worship false idols" (as a nonbeliever they obviously don't apply to me). In fact the only ones I would flat out leave unchanged is "bearing false witness" and "though shalt not steal" and even that has a moral gray area (a starving child stealing food for instance). So the commandments for the most part are not a great source of morality. I do think the teachings of Jesus are actually a good template for secular morality though, he was basically a pacifist and a socialist.
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Post by Cody™ on Apr 13, 2018 6:32:51 GMT
lowtacks86 It’s actually “honour” your parents. To honour someone doesn’t necessarily mean you trust them. It means showing them respect, being kind and civil when dealing with them. It can also mean forgiveness. Now while trust is obviously earned, forgiveness is given. Don’t you think it would be better to forgive lousy parents then to carry that extra emotional baggage and bitterness for the way they treated you? Well technically it’s “thou shall not murder”. The thing is I think everyone knows God exists. Some just suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Jesus wasn’t really a pacifist nor a socialist.
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Post by goz on Apr 13, 2018 7:39:03 GMT
lowtacks86 It’s actually “honour” your parents. To honour someone doesn’t necessarily mean you trust them. It means showing them respect, being kind and civil when dealing with them. It can also mean forgiveness. Now while trust is obviously earned, forgiveness is given. Don’t you think it would be better to forgive lousy parents then to carry that extra emotional baggage and bitterness for the way they treated you? Well technically it’s “thou shall not murder”. The thing is I think everyone knows God exists. Some just suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Jesus wasn’t really a pacifist nor a socialist. You honour things of value. it is to be hoped that this includes your parents. if NOT this is not a moral certainty so discretion is advised , so NOT an absolute. Killing is always pretty bad though there are some moral exemptions, so again not an absolute morality. As you displayed in your memorable thread 'Christianity is declining in the Western World' this is both clearly NOT true and also acknowledged by you. Jesus, in the scriptures, was seen to be both.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 13, 2018 8:48:32 GMT
I'd take out the first 3, which seem all about serving Jehovah's vanity, and put in proscriptions against rape, slavery, child abuse - or something on the social welfare and equality of women.
Alternatively, the commandment 'You shalt know that light is both a wave and particle' would have proven conclusively that instructions come from something other than human at the time.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Apr 13, 2018 11:49:36 GMT
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Lugh
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Post by Lugh on Apr 13, 2018 13:08:51 GMT
I would probably get rid of all of them honestly. They're all either flat out wrong or too simplistic.
For example its not at all inherently wrong to kill or steal. Theft and killing are absolutely justified in many circumstances. Killing is a really useful tool in the political arena.
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