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Post by charzhino on May 13, 2018 15:48:25 GMT
Tony Stark who signed the accords and was so vocal (along with Rhodes) in supporting them doesnt consult General Ross or SHIELD before he takes matters in his own hands and just enters the alien ship after devising a plan with Dr Strange. So not only does this clearly show how flawed Starks thinking of the premise that superheros must be put in some governmental check is, it also renders Civil War the movie essentially useless and just filler since none of its consequences actually matter. The Avengers do whatever they want.
Or can anyone show otherwise?
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Post by Power Ranger on May 13, 2018 16:19:17 GMT
Also Tony was happy to recruit a sixteen year old Peter Parker without asking him to sign.
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Post by Skaathar on May 13, 2018 16:31:03 GMT
That's because the government is dumb. They made the accords thinking only about local threats like terrorist attacks and maybe the occasional mad scientist. They've completely forgotten about the chaos an alien invasion causes or the speed at which things can escalate.
The Accords never really did make much sense to me. It seems that getting the UN's approval before doing anything is much too slow a process for the kind of threats the Avengers deal with.
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Post by pk9 on May 13, 2018 16:33:49 GMT
Not to mention, one of the key parties pushing for the accords was Wakanda, which not only had a secret superhero of their own but also a bunch of supertech that they were never going to put under UN control.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 13, 2018 18:31:31 GMT
So basically the entire narrative fabric of the MCU is flawed, and it needs to be rebooted immediately.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 13, 2018 18:46:49 GMT
it also renders Civil War the movie essentially useless and just filler since none of its consequences actually matter. That's because MCU never intended to make Civil War and only turned Cap 3 into IM v Cap as a reaction to WB announcing BvS. So MCU backed themselves into a corner with Civil War, a movie that they never intended to make and that they were always going to simply ignore the consequences of, like it never happened, in future movies.
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Post by charzhino on May 13, 2018 18:53:37 GMT
it also renders Civil War the movie essentially useless and just filler since none of its consequences actually matter. That's because MCU never intended to make Civil War and only turned Cap 3 into IM v Cap as a reaction to WB announcing BvS. So MCU backed themselves into a corner with Civil War, a movie that they never intended to make and that they were always going to simply ignore the consequences of, like it never happened, in future movies. It does seem that way. They shoehorned quite a lot of stuff into CW without thinking it through and how it would affect future films.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 13, 2018 19:04:51 GMT
The accords were a stupid gimmick to get Cap & Stark on opposite ends since they can;t control when or where an attack happens.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 13, 2018 19:07:56 GMT
The accords were a stupid gimmick to get Cap & Stark on opposite ends since they can;t control when or where an attack happens. Agreed. Civil War was just s stupid movie.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 13, 2018 21:58:50 GMT
The accords were a stupid gimmick to get Cap & Stark on opposite ends since they can;t control when or where an attack happens. Agreed. Civil War was just s stupid movie. Same with Batman v Superman. Everything in that is completely undermined and ignored by Justice League except for Superman's death.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2018 22:02:48 GMT
The Accords was only about entering other countries without permission. Stark was still in America when he went after the space ship. That's why nothing was said when he helped the ferry in Homecoming. He's outside the jurisdiction of the Accords once he's in space.
Try again.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 13, 2018 22:11:17 GMT
Tony Stark who signed the accords and was so vocal (along with Rhodes) in supporting them doesnt consult General Ross or SHIELD before he takes matters in his own hands and just enters the alien ship after devising a plan with Dr Strange. So not only does this clearly show how flawed Starks thinking of the premise that superheros must be put in some governmental check is, it also renders Civil War the movie essentially useless and just filler since none of its consequences actually matter. The Avengers do whatever they want. Or can anyone show otherwise? They probably are, but I wouldn't say the film is. For starters, the Accords really only was meant for other countries (sovereign borders) which the public took issue to when the Avengers were operating over them without said countrie's permission. Not sure space particularly counts. And if anything really, consulted or not, I'm sure Ross and the government would be fine with the fight being taken to space or another planet. But the film isn't completely useless. It's an inevitable thing with movie and TV series; they set up something big with the -th sequel in the series, then a few more sequels later, they set up another big event, and yeah, it will sometimes undermine a lot with what the last big film had set up. But not everything is completely irrelevant as the biggest consequences from Civil War is still there, that the Avengers are split up and all over the world, so they are massively unprepared for Thanos arrival by then. And we still haven't seen how Tony's reaction to Rogers and Bucky would be upon getting the team back together. Tony couldn't even bring himself to call Rogers, so clearly there's still some hatred towards him and Bucky. It's consistence. And I don't think Stark particularly cared much, let alone really believed in the Accords in the first place. It was purely out of guilt when he was confronted by the mother in the beginning and he has just been keeping up with appearance for the government. Its the same reason why he wants Spiderman to maintain a low level working the streets. He doesn't turn him in even though he's in violation of the Accords, yet he makes sure that Spiderman doesn't get too much attention by keeping him street-level.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2018 22:28:49 GMT
Tony Stark who signed the accords and was so vocal (along with Rhodes) in supporting them doesnt consult General Ross or SHIELD before he takes matters in his own hands and just enters the alien ship after devising a plan with Dr Strange. So not only does this clearly show how flawed Starks thinking of the premise that superheros must be put in some governmental check is, it also renders Civil War the movie essentially useless and just filler since none of its consequences actually matter. The Avengers do whatever they want. Or can anyone show otherwise? Rogers, Natasha, Wilson, Maximoff, and Barnes are on the run. Barton and Lang are under house arrest. How is what happened in that movie rendered useless. The movie did what it was suppose to do and splintered the team.
Also, SHIELD isn't officially a thing anymore. They are a shadow organization.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on May 13, 2018 22:35:46 GMT
Especially now that half of the Earth's population been wiped out.
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Post by Skaathar on May 14, 2018 0:25:26 GMT
At least the rift caused by CW is still apparent till IW. The rift caused in BvS lasted only till the next scene.
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Post by damngumby on May 14, 2018 2:27:35 GMT
Tony Stark didn’t “just enter” the ship. He was in hot pursuit of the captured Dr. Strange, with knowledge that the entire universe was in peril.
If the universe is ever returned to normal and an inquiry is held, post Infinity War, it will be noted that Stark was operating within his home country and not subject to the international limits imposed by the accords. The only remaining question will be - how big of a statue will they erect in his honor?
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Post by charzhino on May 14, 2018 11:59:14 GMT
Tony Stark who signed the accords and was so vocal (along with Rhodes) in supporting them doesnt consult General Ross or SHIELD before he takes matters in his own hands and just enters the alien ship after devising a plan with Dr Strange. So not only does this clearly show how flawed Starks thinking of the premise that superheros must be put in some governmental check is, it also renders Civil War the movie essentially useless and just filler since none of its consequences actually matter. The Avengers do whatever they want. Or can anyone show otherwise? They probably are, but I wouldn't say the film is. For starters, the Accords really only was meant for other countries (sovereign borders) which the public took issue to when the Avengers were operating over them without said countrie's permission. Not sure space particularly counts. And if anything really, consulted or not, I'm sure Ross and the government would be fine with the fight being taken to space or another planet. But the film isn't completely useless. It's an inevitable thing with movie and TV series; they set up something big with the -th sequel in the series, then a few more sequels later, they set up another big event, and yeah, it will sometimes undermine a lot with what the last big film had set up. But not everything is completely irrelevant as the biggest consequences from Civil War is still there, that the Avengers are split up and all over the world, so they are massively unprepared for Thanos arrival by then. And we still haven't seen how Tony's reaction to Rogers and Bucky would be upon getting the team back together. Tony couldn't even bring himself to call Rogers, so clearly there's still some hatred towards him and Bucky. It's consistence. And I don't think Stark particularly cared much, let alone really believed in the Accords in the first place. It was purely out of guilt when he was confronted by the mother in the beginning and he has just been keeping up with appearance for the government. Its the same reason why he wants Spiderman to maintain a low level working the streets. He doesn't turn him in even though he's in violation of the Accords, yet he makes sure that Spiderman doesn't get too much attention by keeping him street-level. Yeah the rift is still between them but from the accords point, im sure They would have taken account of extraordinary threats like space and killer robots. Especially since Stark prevented the nuking of NYC as ordered by World council.
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Post by charzhino on May 14, 2018 12:02:11 GMT
The Accords was only about entering other countries without permission. Stark was still in America when he went after the space ship. That's why nothing was said when he helped the ferry in Homecoming. He's outside the jurisdiction of the Accords once he's in space. Try again. When did they exactly say it was ok to be a vigilante as long as your in your country? Didnt the US government try and take Starks tech away? The point of the accords was to be under the control of senior world security figures for when any terror attack happens. The Avengers have to wait before they can do anything, the U.N calls the shots.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 14, 2018 12:06:22 GMT
Others have made this point already but Stark was operating within his home nation's borders and then in space, neither of which are covered by the accords (as far as we know).
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Post by damngumby on May 14, 2018 13:22:50 GMT
The point of the accords was to be under the control of senior world security figures for when any terror attack happens. The Avengers have to wait before they can do anything, the U.N calls the shots. No. the accords were an international agreement to protect national sovereignty from overly exuberant superheroes from other countries. Plus, there is a little known sub-clause in the accords that permit unfettered activity when the entire universe is at stake. It's called the, Are you fucking kidding me? Get out there and save us! clause.
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