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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 1, 2018 11:39:02 GMT
So I’m wondering what the Senate were doing between the Emperor’s rise and when he dissolved it in the first one. Just sitting around, twiddling their thumbs, to rubber-stamp his decisions and say how great he is? Rogue 1 seems to imply that they have lost most of their power. They seem to live in fear or hiding. A few of the leaders in the command center crowd are senators - when Jyn gives her speech about "rebellions are built on hope". And the first time we see Bale Organa he comes skulking out of the shadows. He gives off a vibe that he has been keeping a low profile for quite some time despite still being a senator. Between the manipulation and corruption of the senate down to " I AM the senate" and " This is how liberty dies with thunderous applause" and finally Palpatine simply dissolving the "Imperial" Senate in ANH we have litte reason to assume that that assembly was more than a puppet institution within a dictatorship.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2018 18:47:53 GMT
Is the little girl supposed to be Rey? Guess not. I was thinking about this, and I rather think Disney missed a trick by not connecting Jyn, the lead here, with Rey. Because it’d connect what seems to be a one-off story with their continuing story but without changing (in retrospect) that one-off–rather, it’d make sense with what we know of Rey’s parentage, too. But I suppose that doesn’t make sense in light of the ending of this story.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2018 18:49:50 GMT
Nalkarj , I don’t know if I’ve shared this video with you before, but just in case I haven’t, here’s a Bill Moyers interview with George Lucas that centers on the whole mythos Lucas used to tell his story. A great watch for aspiring storytellers. Actually, it was the mythological connection that finally got me interested in Star Wars–especially re: Joe Campbell, whose work I love. (I had a professor who knew Campbell personally, and some of his stories were really interesting.) But I haven’t seen that interview–thanks!
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2018 18:50:23 GMT
Rogue 1 seems to imply that they have lost most of their power. They seem to live in fear or hiding. A few of the leaders in the command center crowd are senators - when Jyn gives her speech about “rebellions are built on hope”. And the first time we see Bale Organa he comes skulking out of the shadows. He gives off a vibe that he has been keeping a low profile for quite some time despite still being a senator. Between the manipulation and corruption of the senate down to “ I AM the senate” and “ This is how liberty dies with thunderous applause“ and finally Palpatine simply dissolving the “Imperial” Senate in ANH we have litte reason to assume that that assembly was more than a puppet institution within a dictatorship. Right, that’s what I thought, which is why I was surprised the Rebels thought anything could be done by showing the evidence.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2018 19:03:06 GMT
Great review! I tend to agree with everything you said here. Although the tone of the movie probably demanded a little less comedy, I think it did excessively suffer. I thought that they did a very impressive job on CGI Tarkin, but I agree with your complaints. In closeup shots the fakeness was obvious. I didn’t know at the first time I saw it that the actor was taller than Cushing, but when I was watching it I kept feeling like he just seems bigger somehow. And the voice: I have the same complaint that I had with Eisenreich’s voice as Han Solo. Sometimes it seemed like he was getting close. Other times I just thought “Man, you’re not even trying!” CGI Leia: to me she seemed even creepier. Something about the lower half of her face made her look like a bad animatronic. Glad to have you on the SW board. Looking forward to more of your comments on SW.Thank you very much! This whole thread’s full of my rambling, as usual, and I find it weird that I’ve seen all of these movies (except, now, Solo) within the course of a year–though, on the other hand, I suppose it’s weird that I hadn’t seen any of them before. I agree with you on the comedy being out-of-place in a movie with this dark a tone, but I wish that tone were a bit lighter–it would have gone a long way in making this one seem more Star Wars-y. What’s impressive re: Tarkin for me is that he’s as convincing as he is–in long shots, I felt that there was a human being there (probably because there was!), not (for the lack of a better word) a cartoon. It’s the face and voice that bothered me. It’s intriguing that Tarkin had this much screentime–they must have been confident in this technique. By the way, anyone know if they gave the actor Peter’s fluffy slippers to wear? CGI Leia was especially bad and cartoony, but luckily she’s not on the screen for more than a few seconds!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2018 19:08:05 GMT
Nalkarj , I don’t know if I’ve shared this video with you before, but just in case I haven’t, here’s a Bill Moyers interview with George Lucas that centers on the whole mythos Lucas used to tell his story. A great watch for aspiring storytellers. Actually, it was the mythological connection that finally got me interested in Star Wars–especially re: Joe Campbell, whose work I love. (I had a professor who knew Campbell personally, and some of his stories were really interesting.) But I haven’t seen that interview–thanks! There are clips of the Moyers/Campbell interview out there too, but I don't know if the whole thing is on YouTube somewhere or not.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2018 19:10:21 GMT
Actually, it was the mythological connection that finally got me interested in Star Wars–especially re: Joe Campbell, whose work I love. (I had a professor who knew Campbell personally, and some of his stories were really interesting.) But I haven’t seen that interview–thanks! There are clips of the Moyers/Campbell interview out there too, but I don’t know if the whole thing is on YouTube somewhere or not. Yeah, that one I’ve listened to. It’s fascinating.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 1, 2018 20:27:38 GMT
Great review! I tend to agree with everything you said here. Although the tone of the movie probably demanded a little less comedy, I think it did excessively suffer. I thought that they did a very impressive job on CGI Tarkin, but I agree with your complaints. In closeup shots the fakeness was obvious. I didn’t know at the first time I saw it that the actor was taller than Cushing, but when I was watching it I kept feeling like he just seems bigger somehow. And the voice: I have the same complaint that I had with Eisenreich’s voice as Han Solo. Sometimes it seemed like he was getting close. Other times I just thought “Man, you’re not even trying!” CGI Leia: to me she seemed even creepier. Something about the lower half of her face made her look like a bad animatronic. Glad to have you on the SW board. Looking forward to more of your comments on SW.Thank you very much! This whole thread’s full of my rambling, as usual, and I find it weird that I’ve seen all of these movies (except, now, Solo) within the course of a year–though, on the other hand, I suppose it’s weird that I hadn’t seen any of them before. I agree with you on the comedy being out-of-place in a movie with this dark a tone, but I wish that tone were a bit lighter–it would have gone a long way in making this one seem more Star Wars-y. What’s impressive re: Tarkin for me is that he’s as convincing as he is–in long shots, I felt that there was a human being there (probably because there was!), not (for the lack of a better word) a cartoon. It’s the face and voice that bothered me. It’s intriguing that Tarkin had this much screentime–they must have been confident in this technique. By the way, anyone know if they gave the actor Peter’s fluffy slippers to wear? CGI Leia was especially bad and cartoony, but luckily she’s not on the screen for more than a few seconds! I vacillate from viewing to viewing on how much, if at all, the Tarkin effects irk me. It's never been something that's taken me completely out of the movie, but it's always been some degree of a distraction if that makes sense. Leia looks bad. Worse than that, Vader sounds bad. James Earl Jones, an absolute legend with nothing left to prove and for whom I have the utmost respect, sounded every bit his age. And the folks at LFL didn't modulate, enhance, or modify the character's voice to compensate, so he just sounds totally different than in any of the prior movies that have featured the character. I also had mixed feelings about his castle residence on Mustafar. While it was mostly cool, again -- like you stated so eloquently earlier -- it only felt half like Star Wars despite having the Lucas blueprint from III. (Specifically, I thought it looked and felt too "feudal" and not "industrial" enough.) I also found it weird that Vader had, like, guards or servants or whatever. I kind of found it weird to think of him crashing anywhere at all. I sort of imagined him just perpetually in service of the Emperor and having executive quarters/chambers wherever he happened to be. I dunno. And why Mustafar? Yeah, I get why, but it feels too on-the-nose to me. So I'm ambivalent to a lot of that sequence and the overall portrayal of the character. But my biggest issue with Rogue came from some characterization issues that I had; specifically, that they killed off the characters in the order that I both liked and cared about them, such that by the end of the movie, the final deaths felt very slightly anticlimactic. You know? I was like, "Oh, shit! Not the droid! Damn. ... man, not those cool monk dudes! ... ugh, the pilot?! He was alright. ... okay, yeah, and these guys too. Welp, that's that." That's maybe more of a personal problem, though. Did you have any sense of that or it culminated properly for you as the film concluded? ETA: I'm sure you prolly caught it, but since I don't think anyone's pointed it out unless I missed it: did you notice "Red Five" getting killed off, making room in the squad for Luke?
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2018 20:59:59 GMT
I vacillate from viewing to viewing on how much, if at all, the Tarkin effects irk me. It’s never been something that’s taken me completely out of the movie, but it’s always been some degree of a distraction if that makes sense. Leia looks bad. Worse than that, Vader sounds bad. James Earl Jones, an absolute legend with nothing left to prove and for whom I have the utmost respect, sounded every bit his age. And the folks at LFL didn’t modulate, enhance, or modify the character’s voice to compensate, so he just sounds totally different than in any of the prior movies that have featured the character. I also had mixed feelings about his castle residence on Mustafar. While it was mostly cool, again – like you stated so eloquently earlier – it only felt half like Star Wars despite having the Lucas blueprint from III. (Specifically, I thought it looked and felt too “feudal” and not “industrial” enough.) I also found it weird that Vader had, like, guards or servants or whatever. I kind of found it weird to think of him crashing anywhere at all. I sort of imagined him just perpetually in service of the Emperor and having executive quarters/chambers wherever he happened to be. I dunno. And why Mustafar? Yeah, I get why, but it feels too on-the-nose to me. So I’m ambivalent to a lot of that sequence and the overall portrayal of the character. I definitely heard the changes in Jones’s voice, but I wasn’t too bothered by them–I just accepted it as reality because of aging. I suppose they could have modified the voice, though… Apparently I missed a lot–for some reason I didn’t pick up on the fact that was supposed to be Vader’s castle! Even if it’s obvious CGI, I liked the look, but I’m mixed on it as well: I could imagine Lucas creating something like this when he made the first Star Wars (or right afterwards); “feudal” may well be the right word, because it looks like a dark wizard’s castle in a medieval-set fantasy story. Star Wars, the first one, is pretty much a fantasy set in space (knights, magic, rescuing the princess), and Vader a dark wizard, so that makes sense–but the more we find out about him, and the more the story progresses, the more this castle doesn’t make much sense. I admit I never thought of where he’d sleep–but, then, I don’t usually think of where characters use the bathroom or things like that either! Your scenario (“having executive quarters/chambers wherever he happened to be”) seems to make the most sense. Mustafar is where Anakin falls in the lava and becomes Vader? I guess it would have been too on-the-nose for me too if I’d put two-and-two together (and made 5!). When I praised Vader, I meant at the end, where he deflects the shots/blasts with his lightsaber and later stands dramatically on the ship’s bridge. I wrote somewhere on here that he’s such an impressive villain that all the parodies and mockeries, Rick Moranis and all, don’t dent his image one bit–and that’s the same impression I got here. He’s just such a fantastic old-fashioned villain. About half and half. I didn’t care about the pilot either–the performance was good, the writing not so much. The monks I was equally indifferent to. Jyn I liked, but as you say I thought the droid was the most moving death of them all! We find out they’re definitely going to die so long before they actually do die that it’s less shocking when they do; we were mentally prepared for it. I didn’t! Neat.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 2:54:55 GMT
I also had mixed feelings about his castle residence on Mustafar. I’m mixed on it as well: I could imagine Lucas creating something like this when he made the first Star Wars ( or right after )
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 2:57:38 GMT
Tarkin was a joke, he looked like shit, and worse, he didn't even sound like him.
And Leia looked ridiculous.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 3:03:35 GMT
I don't "hate" RO ( I actually enjoyed it in theater ) but I consider STAR WARS films to be Classic Myth, and let's face it, when you read about Hercules, you do not read about the guy who drew him a map.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 3:05:15 GMT
I have made the same analogy with Rey, when you hear the tale of Achilles, you do not also hear about the girl down the street, who just happens to be more powerful than he was.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 3:10:05 GMT
You are almost caught up slazmark!
Only "Han Solo Movie with a Bunch of Other Characters No One Give Shit About" remains!
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 2, 2018 3:25:16 GMT
You are almost caught up slazmark! I know, it’s amazing! Innit? My first Star Wars movie, as I think I wrote earlier on here, was going to be The Force Awakens–family were going to go to a movie theater and I was going to tag along. And then a snowstorm hit, and we thought it was better to stay in the cabin we were staying in and have a fire! But either way it was the first thing that made me think, Gee whiz, I’ve put this off long enough, maybe I should watch these movies at long last. And I’d loved Native American mythology ever since I went to the Indian Museum in D.C. (believe me, it does connect), which got me interested in Joseph Campbell’s work, and of course Campbell directly inspired and loved Star Wars… It’s been such a fun ride. Hey, I like Chewie! And Lando! (Unless they’re not in it?)
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 3:29:18 GMT
You are almost caught up slazmark! I know, it’s amazing! Innit? Hey, I like Chewie! And Lando! (Unless they’re not in it?)U HAZ 2 WATCH IT 2 FIND OUT !!!!!!!!!!12
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 2, 2018 3:30:49 GMT
I don’t “hate” RO ( I actually enjoyed it in theater ) but I consider STAR WARS films to be Classic Myth, and let’s face it, when you read about Hercules, you do not read about the guy who drew him a map. Oddly enough, I think that’s connected to what bothered me too. I love the mythopoeic aspects, the creation of a world, and the derring-do and heroism. This was a different feeling–so much that, as I wrote, it just doesn’t feel like Star Wars. Colden recently wrote me a lengthy essay on THC on why he hates The Force Awakens, so I hope I don’t offend him by saying that that movie at least felt like Star Wars, it just didn’t do a very good job with it. Rogue One doesn’t. But it’s not a bad movie at all.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 2, 2018 3:31:52 GMT
I’m mixed on it as well: I could imagine Lucas creating something like this when he made the first Star Wars ( or right after )And this is…sorry, what, exactly?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 2, 2018 3:37:39 GMT
And this is…sorry, what, exactly? " Lucas creating something like this when he made the first Star Wars ( or right after ) "
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 2, 2018 3:44:28 GMT
And this is…sorry, what, exactly? “ Lucas creating something like this when he made the first Star Wars ( or right after ) “ So this is something he created that’s similar to the castle?
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