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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 7:41:02 GMT
YEP. I have been saying it for years. MCU have terrible cinematography. good comic films cinematography are films like this. Batman Begins and X2 bad cinematography are films like avengers and gotg this stuff is a cartoon (avengers and gotg) so sad. thanks OP. And no many MCU fans don't understand it. I understand good cinematography and those scenes don't look cartoonish at all. The only MCU movies with bad cinematography are Homecoming, Civil War, Age of Ultron and Ant Man. Now if you could kindly fix up your act and stop trolling and treating the MCU like a plague or you may post elsewhere.
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Post by hobowar on Jul 20, 2018 7:42:37 GMT
I'm just happy they haven't done anything as bad as the Dark Knight score. Hans Zimmer has got to be one of the most generic and overrated film score composers of all time.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Jul 20, 2018 7:43:35 GMT
I'm just happy they haven't done anything as bad as the Dark Knight score. Hans Zimmer has got to be one of the most generic and overrated film score composers of all time. He composed the score for Interstellar, so no.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 20, 2018 8:25:30 GMT
I don't buy the score from films often but I own the The Dark Knight trilogy score box set.
As for the MCU music/cinematography I liked Infinity War and Black Panther. The rest of the films are either a hit or a miss. The Avengers definitely has the worse cinematography and it doesn't help that Joss Whedon shot the damn thing like a tv show.
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Post by scabab on Jul 20, 2018 9:55:41 GMT
I'm not too familiar with cinematography but the scores have been mostly weak.
I mean everyone knows the Superman theme, the Batman theme, to a lesser extent the Spider-man theme and the X-men theme.
Even the newest Wonder Woman theme is going to be pretty memorable. Man of Steel had a good score because it was done by Hans Zimmer.
But amongst the MCU movies...there's no classic themes, what's Iron Man or Captain America's theme? I have no idea I'm gonna have to YouTube it after this but the movies with the best scores have been Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther and Thor Ragnarok.
Two of those are just due to the licensed music.
Oh wait I suppose the Avengers theme stands out, so that's one.
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Post by sostie on Jul 20, 2018 10:58:41 GMT
On the Cinematography side, it's not MCUs strongest point, but neither is it terrible, and there are some films like Winter Soldier and Ragnarok where it does look great. The fall of the Valkyries and Thor's arrival on the bridge in Ragnarok I thought were stunning shots.
The scores are not all memorable either, but again, not bad.
On the flip side for me the most memorable things about the DCEU are a few striking images and the music...but they seem to lack in every other department. I'd rather have the the situation in MCU where the opposite is true.
In the Music area where MCU does excel is the use of licensed music - GOTG, Ant-Man, Iron Man 2, Ragnarok, Hoecoming etc have all put licensed music to great use (even in the trailers). This is one area DCEU have tried and failed. The awful Leonard Cohen cover at the beginning of JL for example. Or even worse Suicide Squad's blatant attempt to sell a soundtrack album.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 20, 2018 11:38:41 GMT
I do not remember any reasonable discussions on cinematography, musical scores or artistic merits on MCU forums. That is just not what this fanbase seem concerned about, quite naturally that is. Top topics are
1. News & Cartoon Nerd facts 2. OMG, MCU makes so much more money than X!!! 3. Rankings, rankings & rankings again 4. Hahahaha, we have famously huge turds - gloating threads (this arf-form went down a little with the fortunate demise of Jar Jar Stanton, weirdraptor & ilk) 4. Which superhero would win the fight? 5. Who is hot who is not? 6. Forum Drama & Play
That being said, MCUcinematography or music are neither particularily good or bad, they - on average - are mediocre but serviceable. They perfectly accomodate the movies as mass-market products.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 20, 2018 12:08:43 GMT
I do not remember any reasonable discussions on cinematography, musical scores or artistic merits on MCU forums. That is just not what this fanbase seem concerned about, quite naturally that is. Top topics are
1. News & Cartoon Nerd facts 2. OMG, MCU makes so much more money than X!!! 3. Rankings, rankings & rankings again 4. Hahahaha, we have famously huge turds - gloating threads (this arf-form went down a little with the fortunate demise of Jar Jar Stanton, weirdraptor & ilk) 4. Which superhero would win the fight? 5. Who is hot who is not? 6. Forum Drama & Play
That being said, MCUcinematography or music are neither particularily good or bad, they - on average - are mediocre but serviceable. They perfectly accomodate the movies as mass-market products. Very true. MCU fans are obessed with aesthetics of the films only. There is no higher level thought of discussion present. When they are challenged with it, they have no rebuttal.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 20, 2018 12:34:10 GMT
Very true. MCU fans are obessed with aesthetics of the films only. There is no higher level thought of discussion present. When they are challenged with it, they have no rebuttal. You’re painting with way too broad a brush, charzhino. While I’m sure some Marvel fans do that, as do all “fans” of whatever stripe, I can speak from definitive experience that many of them do appreciate cinematography, music, and good filmmaking. With that said, even arguendo, do you ever really see someone leave a summer blockbuster debating the higher things?
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Post by DSDSquared on Jul 20, 2018 13:06:19 GMT
I do not remember any reasonable discussions on cinematography, musical scores or artistic merits on MCU forums. That is just not what this fanbase seem concerned about, quite naturally that is. Top topics are
1. News & Cartoon Nerd facts 2. OMG, MCU makes so much more money than X!!! 3. Rankings, rankings & rankings again 4. Hahahaha, we have famously huge turds - gloating threads (this arf-form went down a little with the fortunate demise of Jar Jar Stanton, weirdraptor & ilk) 4. Which superhero would win the fight? 5. Who is hot who is not? 6. Forum Drama & Play
That being said, MCUcinematography or music are neither particularily good or bad, they - on average - are mediocre but serviceable. They perfectly accomodate the movies as mass-market products. Very true. MCU fans are obessed with aesthetics of the films only. There is no higher level thought of discussion present. When they are challenged with it, they have no rebuttal. Maybe we are just obsessed with quality writing and good films, something the SCEU knows very little about.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 20, 2018 13:28:39 GMT
Very true. MCU fans are obessed with aesthetics of the films only. There is no higher level thought of discussion present. When they are challenged with it, they have no rebuttal. You’re painting with way too broad a brush, charzhino. While I’m sure some Marvel fans do that, as do all “fans” of whatever stripe, I can speak from definitive experience that many of them do appreciate cinematography, music, and good filmmaking. With that said, even arguendo, do you ever really see someone leave a summer blockbuster debating the higher things? In my experience Its not like that at all. The discussion is always something about how cool a particular action scene was or more often, what implications does "X" have for film "Y" 4 years down the road. There is rarely any deeper level of analysis. Summer blockbusters have been getting dumber and dumber. There do exist appealing ones that have interesting villains or concepts that challenge ethics in the real world. Infinity War and Black Panther do present this to some degree along with some decent cinematography and score, but fans come out frawling and going nuts over the funny moments, after credit scenes, action set pieces, easter eggs, fan theories and what everything means for films in 2019, 2020 and 2021 that havent even been released yet. So in answer to the topics title, MCU fans dont appreciate good cinematography or good musical score because they dont critcise it or acknowledge it either. They dont care
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 20, 2018 13:43:34 GMT
You’re painting with way too broad a brush, charzhino. While I’m sure some Marvel fans do that, as do all “fans” of whatever stripe, I can speak from definitive experience that many of them do appreciate cinematography, music, and good filmmaking. With that said, even arguendo, do you ever really see someone leave a summer blockbuster debating the higher things? In my experience Its not like that at all. The discussion is always something about how cool a particular action scene was or more often, what implications does "X" have for film "Y" 4 years down the road. There is rarely any deeper level of analysis.
Summer blockbusters have been getting dumber and dumber. There do exist appealing ones that have interesting villains or concepts that challenge ethics in the real world. Infinity War and Black Panther do present this to some degree along with some decent cinematography and score, but fans come out frawling and going nuts over the funny moments, action set pieces, fan theories and what everything means for films in 2019, 2020 and 2021 that havent even been released yet. So in answer to the topics title, MCU fans dont appreciate good cinematography or good musical score because they dont critcise it or acknowledge it either. They dont care The bolded is rather what I meant, too. I don’t think we disagree on that. I’m not sure exactly how “dumb” modern summer blockbusters are; there are always some that are “dumb,” but it has been that way, probably, since the invention of the movies. And I can’t stand the blow ‘er up/CGI spectacle. But what I mean is that there’s a place for the fun and the charming, even the mindless; there’s no necessity or diktat that summer blockbusters need to make us think (to the contrary, in fact). Pauline Kael used to praise unpretentious and fun works and discover artistry even in them. But what I’m mostly criticizing in your post is your characterization of one set of fans, of the Marvel series. Lord knows that I’ve criticized the series myself more than once, while praising a few of them (though I don’t think the “MCU” has ever come close to repeating the highs of Iron Man). You can’t say that “MCU fans,” in the aggregate, “dont appreciate cinematography or good musical score” any more than King Kong Brady or Formersam can say that all MCU critics hate comic books and fans. Both positions are patently incorrect over-generalizations based on little actual evidence, mostly just your interactions with folks here. I have a pal who’s a huge MCU fan, really enjoys them just for their sense of fun and verve. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don’t, but he’s one of the smartest people I know, and he’s well-acquainted with the virtues of good filmmaking. Making a negative characterization of fans of any series just because they’re fans of that series is bad logic and doesn’t bode well for interactions with people of differing views in real life, especially when those differing views broach other, far more important subjects (music, art, and of course religion and politics, inter alia). I’d prefer it here if we didn’t rush to judgment about anyone who disagrees with us. As someone who has enjoyed several of both the DCU and MCU movies, this ongoing “total war/us vs. them” mentality about a bunch of comic-book movies makes absolutely no sense to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 15:31:18 GMT
good discussion folks! I appreciate the feedback & am rooting for the MCU to improve their cinematography on their films . Civil War (a film that I thought was decent enough overall) had some of the most lackluster / tv movie type cinematography which was disappointing & frustrating to watch . Mainly cause its a massive budget film at $250 million . It SHOULD have great cinematography & the score should have been a lot better too imo.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 20, 2018 16:23:58 GMT
I do not remember any reasonable discussions on cinematography, musical scores or artistic merits on MCU forums. That is just not what this fanbase seem concerned about, quite naturally that is. Top topics are
1. News & Cartoon Nerd facts 2. OMG, MCU makes so much more money than X!!! 3. Rankings, rankings & rankings again 4. Hahahaha, we have famously huge turds - gloating threads (this arf-form went down a little with the fortunate demise of Jar Jar Stanton, weirdraptor & ilk) 4. Which superhero would win the fight? 5. Who is hot who is not? 6. Forum Drama & Play
That being said, MCUcinematography or music are neither particularily good or bad, they - on average - are mediocre but serviceable. They perfectly accomodate the movies as mass-market products. Very true. MCU fans are obessed with aesthetics of the films only. There is no higher level thought of discussion present. When they are challenged with it, they have no rebuttal. And yet this discussion is specifically about aesthetics and about how MCU fans supposedly don't care about them. So which one is it?
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Post by sostie on Jul 20, 2018 18:25:54 GMT
I do not remember any reasonable discussions on cinematography, musical scores or artistic merits on MCU forums. That is just not what this fanbase seem concerned about, quite naturally that is. Top topics are
1. News & Cartoon Nerd facts 2. OMG, MCU makes so much more money than X!!! 3. Rankings, rankings & rankings again 4. Hahahaha, we have famously huge turds - gloating threads (this arf-form went down a little with the fortunate demise of Jar Jar Stanton, weirdraptor & ilk) 4. Which superhero would win the fight? 5. Who is hot who is not? 6. Forum Drama & Play
That being said, MCUcinematography or music are neither particularily good or bad, they - on average - are mediocre but serviceable. They perfectly accomodate the movies as mass-market products. How refreshing to see you contribute to a thread rather than finding another excuse to have a dig at a whole fanbase
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 20, 2018 18:50:47 GMT
Swear to GOD I am not trolling but I am pretty curious to know if you hardcore MCU fanboys are aware of good to really good cinematography ? And are okay with films with mediocre scores? IMO it would would seem that Feige & his director for hires do not value good cinematography or musical score. I literally can't name any memorable moments of either . For comparisons sake, The Dark Knight / Batman Begins / Watchmen have plenty of memorable shots . When it comes to MCU films , it seems like the hardcore fans of them just like the wise cracks. Do MCU fans appreciate good cinematography and a good musical score? NOPE!!!
How can I say that? Its evidenced by the fact that when folks right here on these boards post about MCU movies its BARELY ever about cinematography and musical score; or the editing, or the production design. Maybe, MAYBE, they talk about story and performances, and they have some very vague notion of what a director actually does, but other than that they're more interested in whether or not a character was cast right (the right race, the right gender) or whether or not the story was comic faithful.
This applies to the vast majority. I don't expect anyone to admit it, but I'd bet both my testicles that if someone did the research, and read through a good number of threads here, you'd see I was right.
This isn't intended as an insult either. Most people at large in any audience are like that. Ask the average movie goer why they liked a movie and you'll hardly get a more in depth answer than that they liked the story and/or the actors. And to be honest MOST movies are not art, where cinematography and musical score and editing etc. are very carefully considered beyond what it takes to entertain an audience. And that's ok too. I love me a good popcorn movie. MCU are some of the best popcorn movies ever.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 20, 2018 19:05:15 GMT
Swear to GOD I am not trolling but I am pretty curious to know if you hardcore MCU fanboys are aware of good to really good cinematography ? And are okay with films with mediocre scores? IMO it would would seem that Feige & his director for hires do not value good cinematography or musical score. I literally can't name any memorable moments of either . For comparisons sake, The Dark Knight / Batman Begins / Watchmen have plenty of memorable shots . When it comes to MCU films , it seems like the hardcore fans of them just like the wise cracks. Yeah, tell that to the cinematographer of ‘Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2’ and Ludwig Goransson... If the cinematographer of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 thinks he created high art then he's on drugs. The cinematography of that movie was 90% green screen cgi!!! Oh it looked pretty, but it was hardly some creative moment of genius.
Goransson did do a better job on Black Panther, and he had a few more challenges with locations, but he also can barely speak about greatness in camera work. At least not yet in his career...
If you want to see brilliance in cinematography look up Jordan Cronenweth, Jeff Cronenweth, Roger Deakins, Conrad Hall, Gordon Willis, Freddie Young, Geoffrey Unsworth... well, it goes on. But its not to be found in MCU.
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 31, 2020 0:46:52 GMT
Going to resurrect this just to point out: Majority of modern superhero movies starting from Blade onwards don't have memorable musical scores. Does anyone recall good scores from Blade, X2, Spiderman 2, CATFA, Aquaman, Shazam, Black Panther, etc?
There are a few superhero movies with good scores like TDK and Ragnarok, a few with good soundtracks like GOTG or IM, and some musical themes that really stick out and are memorable like the Wonder Woman and Avengers theme. But by and large the musical score problem is something you'll find across comicbook movies, irrespective of studio or franchise.
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Post by hobowar on Jan 31, 2020 2:19:07 GMT
Black Panther, Thor Ragnarok, Endgame and Age of Ultron have better musical scores than any DC movie.
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Post by hobowar on Jan 31, 2020 8:49:24 GMT
What are your favourite films in terms of cinematography outside of comic book movies?
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