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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 12:58:51 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion. It's certainly mandated by Christianity. It's just not something that is obeyed by most Christians.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 13:00:13 GMT
Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others. I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience. I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. Holy crap, WOW. Is that really YOU in your avatar picture?
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 22, 2018 13:00:35 GMT
Empathy doesn't imply agreeing with anyone or actually having the same views as them. Empathy doesn't imply conforming with norms. That's right. Empathy implies trying to understand other's pov in spite of differences. Basically looking at things from other people's point of view rather than your own. It may not imply accepting the views of others but trying to understand them Right, which makes a comment that I have any less empathy than the norm bizarre. In fact, I'm often misinterpreted by people who have far less empathy than I do, because they can't grok the idea of arguing for something that's not purely self-serving. I'm never the person who wants to ostracize anyone, who thinks of anyone as evil, who wants to lock up someone and throw away the key, who thinks anyone should be killed, mutilated, etc. (and in fact, I've often mentioned that I strongly disagree with our prison system. I don't think it shows much empathy for the people we're locking up.) I'm always telling people to chill out and not overreact. I discourage negative judgments and try to help people understand alternate sides of things. In the last few days I've posted a lot about the silliness of looking at anyone as an "enemy." Etc.
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Post by kls on Jul 22, 2018 13:01:08 GMT
Is that really YOU in your avatar picture? No. She's Felicity Huffman. An actress.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 13:02:28 GMT
Is that really YOU in your avatar picture? No. She's Felicity Huffman. An actress. Gotcha!
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 22, 2018 13:03:30 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion. It's certainly mandated by Christianity. It's just not something that is obeyed by most Christians. How do you mandate empathy?
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 13:05:29 GMT
That's right. Empathy implies trying to understand other's pov in spite of differences. Basically looking at things from other people's point of view rather than your own. It may not imply accepting the views of others but trying to understand them Right, which makes a comment that I have any less empathy than the norm bizarre. In fact, I'm often misinterpreted by people who have far less empathy than I do, because they can't grok the idea of arguing for something that's not purely self-serving. I'm never the person who wants to ostracize anyone, who thinks of anyone as evil, who wants to lock up someone and throw away the key, who thinks anyone should be killed, mutilated, etc. (and in fact, I've often mentioned that I strongly disagree with our prison system. I don't think it shows much empathy for the people we're locking up.) I'm always telling people to chill out and not overreact. I discourage negative judgments and try to help people understand alternate sides of things. In the last few days I've posted a lot about the silliness of looking at anyone as an "enemy." Etc. Well, I apologise if you believe I have wrongly judged you. I do believe there are some points on which you are correct and appreciate your views on those points. But it's just my belief that you have lower degree of empathy. I will try to point that out when next time I see a thread where I feel like that in any of your comment.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 22, 2018 13:05:51 GMT
Religions often teach about having sympathy and kindness for others. Do religions teach about having empathy for others? Would any religious person like to discuss what her religion has to say on the issue.? Or is that you believe empathy is partly an innate human feeling and partly something that you learn from your own experiences and situations? Thus, religions have not got much to say about it? Having sympathy for people, acting kindly towards them, and having empathy with respect to them go hand in hand. It would be difficult to genuinely feel sympathy for anyone if you do not have empathy towards them. And kindness without empathy would be purely manipulative, which maybe shouldn't be classified as kindness. I think it is far easier to have sympathy. Sympathy does not require actually feeling anything or putting yourself in their shoes. You just understand that someone is in a bad spot and pity them for it.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 13:07:04 GMT
Having sympathy for people, acting kindly towards them, and having empathy with respect to them go hand in hand. It would be difficult to genuinely feel sympathy for anyone if you do not have empathy towards them. And kindness without empathy would be purely manipulative, which maybe shouldn't be classified as kindness. I think it is far easier to have sympathy. Sympathy does not require actually feeling anything or putting yourself in their shoes. You just understand that someone is in a bad spot and pity them for it. I 100% agree with you.
That is what I was going to write.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 22, 2018 13:12:03 GMT
Right, which makes a comment that I have any less empathy than the norm bizarre. In fact, I'm often misinterpreted by people who have far less empathy than I do, because they can't grok the idea of arguing for something that's not purely self-serving. I'm never the person who wants to ostracize anyone, who thinks of anyone as evil, who wants to lock up someone and throw away the key, who thinks anyone should be killed, mutilated, etc. (and in fact, I've often mentioned that I strongly disagree with our prison system. I don't think it shows much empathy for the people we're locking up.) I'm always telling people to chill out and not overreact. I discourage negative judgments and try to help people understand alternate sides of things. In the last few days I've posted a lot about the silliness of looking at anyone as an "enemy." Etc. Well, I apologise if you believe I have wrongly judged you. I do believe there are some points on which you are correct and appreciate your views on those points. But it's just my belief that you have lower degree of empathy. I will try to point that out when next time I see a thread where I feel like that in any of your comment. Sure. Probably what I'm doing in those threads is underscoring that people aren't displaying empathy for the other person. For example, say if it was a thread about Rosanne Barr's tweet. Well, are people displaying empathy for Rosanne Barr? If not, and they just want her strung up, ostracized, whatever, I'm going to focus on presenting the other side. You need to have empathy for everyone, and that means not wanting to string up people, not just ostracize them, not have them canned from their job, etc. Same thing goes for the "MeToo" stuff for example. And that also includes having empathy for the person who was sexually interested in and aggressive towards other people. You can't just have empathy for the "victim." You need to have empathy for both sides. You need to understand not only why the victim feels like a victim but equally why the aggressor felt the way they did and acted like that. We can't just embrace one side and treat the other side as if they're evil and should be kicked to the street, etc. That's not empathy.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 22, 2018 13:14:31 GMT
Having sympathy for people, acting kindly towards them, and having empathy with respect to them go hand in hand. It would be difficult to genuinely feel sympathy for anyone if you do not have empathy towards them. And kindness without empathy would be purely manipulative, which maybe shouldn't be classified as kindness. I think it is far easier to have sympathy. Sympathy does not require actually feeling anything or putting yourself in their shoes. You just understand that someone is in a bad spot and pity them for it. How could you understand that someone is in a bad spot if you don't have empathy towards them? If you're talking about simply expressing sympathy, I'd agree, but that's why I said "genuinely feel sympathy" as opposed to just going through the motions of expressing it without genuinely feeling it. Sympathy is feeling something, by the way.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 22, 2018 13:22:04 GMT
I think it is far easier to have sympathy. Sympathy does not require actually feeling anything or putting yourself in their shoes. You just understand that someone is in a bad spot and pity them for it. How could you understand that someone is in a bad spot if you don't have empathy towards them? If you're talking about simply expressing sympathy, I'd agree, but that's why I said "genuinely feel sympathy" as opposed to just going through the motions of expressing it without genuinely feeling it. Sympathy is feeling something, by the way. Understanding something is simply knowledge. I can have sympathy for hurricane victims, empathy is what moves me to help them. We had bad thunderstorms in my city and power was out for about 25,000 people. Sympathy acknowledge their plight, empathy moved me to offer my home for some to stay if needed.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 22, 2018 13:26:41 GMT
How could you understand that someone is in a bad spot if you don't have empathy towards them? If you're talking about simply expressing sympathy, I'd agree, but that's why I said "genuinely feel sympathy" as opposed to just going through the motions of expressing it without genuinely feeling it. Sympathy is feeling something, by the way. Understanding something is simply knowledge. I can have sympathy for hurricane victims, empathy is what moves me to help them. We had bad thunderstorms in my city and power was out for about 25,000 people. Sympathy acknowledge their plight, empathy moved me to offer my home for some to stay if needed. "Understanding something is simply knowledge." I don't agree with that when we're talking about sympathy, empathy, etc.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 22, 2018 13:27:40 GMT
Something very much like empathy can be essential to "communication," which is a specialty, an actual degree track at many universities. That is not as Terrapin Station has already said the same as "communing" with people. People can be trained to be better communicators much like they can be trained to be better electricians or economists. It's a job that isn't necessarily best for everyone. Nor does choosing to communicate less indicate a personality flaw.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 22, 2018 13:29:26 GMT
Understanding something is simply knowledge. I can have sympathy for hurricane victims, empathy is what moves me to help them. We had bad thunderstorms in my city and power was out for about 25,000 people. Sympathy acknowledge their plight, empathy moved me to offer my home for some to stay if needed. "Understanding something is simply knowledge." I don't agree with that when we're talking about sympathy, empathy, etc. OK
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 13:31:02 GMT
It's certainly mandated by Christianity. It's just not something that is obeyed by most Christians. How do you mandate empathy? You'd have to ask the authors of the bible. But they certainly did it! Colossians 3:12Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.Romans 12:15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.1 Peter 3:8Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.Ephesians 4:28Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.1 Corinthians 12:25-26so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.Galatians 6:2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.Hebrews 13:3Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.Romans 15:1-2We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 22, 2018 13:33:26 GMT
How do you mandate empathy? You'd have to ask the authors of the bible. But they certainly did it! Colossians 3:12Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.Romans 12:15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.1 Peter 3:8Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.Ephesians 4:28Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.1 Corinthians 12:25-26so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.Galatians 6:2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.Hebrews 13:3Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.Romans 15:1-2We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.That's good advice, and I agree with it, but you can't enforce it.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 22, 2018 13:38:40 GMT
How do you mandate empathy? You'd have to ask the authors of the bible. But they certainly did it! Colossians 3:12Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.Romans 12:15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.1 Peter 3:8Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.Ephesians 4:28Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.1 Corinthians 12:25-26so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.Galatians 6:2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.Hebrews 13:3Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.Romans 15:1-2We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. I think it's wonderful if you are able to do that. Where you might get in serious trouble is in trying to manage other people's business and wealth as if you had any talent for that.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 13:38:54 GMT
Well, I apologise if you believe I have wrongly judged you. I do believe there are some points on which you are correct and appreciate your views on those points. But it's just my belief that you have lower degree of empathy. I will try to point that out when next time I see a thread where I feel like that in any of your comment. Sure. Probably what I'm doing in those threads is underscoring that people aren't displaying empathy for the other person. For example, say if it was a thread about Rosanne Barr's tweet. Well, are people displaying empathy for Rosanne Barr? If not, and they just want her strung up, ostracized, whatever, I'm going to focus on presenting the other side. You need to have empathy for everyone, and that means not wanting to string up people, not just ostracize them, not have them canned from their job, etc. Same thing goes for the "MeToo" stuff for example. And that also includes having empathy for the person who was sexually interested in and aggressive towards other people. You can't just have empathy for the "victim." You need to have empathy for both sides. You need to understand not only why the victim feels like a victim but equally why the aggressor felt the way they did and acted like that. We can't just embrace one side and treat the other side as if they're evil and should be kicked to the street, etc. That's not empathy. There's an article called "Empathic neural responses are modulated by the perceived fairness of others" which essentially concludes that:
" in men (at least) empathic responses are shaped by valuation of other people's social behaviour, such that they empathize with fair opponents while favouring the physical punishment of unfair opponents, a finding that echoes recent evidence for altruistic punishment."
You may have a very inclusive definition of empathy but people generally have a feeling of empathy till a certain extent. I will give you my examples:
Situation 1 - A person committed rape because he was feeling lusty- Even if I feel for the rapist that hormones made him lusty I would be happy when he gets arrested.
Situation 2 - John Doe is a person who works at a grocery store whose owner underpays him. One day John sees that there is some money fallen on the floor of the shop and no one is looking. I will empathise with John if he were to steal that money. I would be sad if he gets caught and so I will wish that he doesn't get caught.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 13:40:09 GMT
You'd have to ask the authors of the bible. But they certainly did it! Colossians 3:12Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.Romans 12:15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.1 Peter 3:8Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.Ephesians 4:28Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.1 Corinthians 12:25-26so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.Galatians 6:2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.Hebrews 13:3Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.Romans 15:1-2We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.That's good advice, and I agree with it, but you can't enforce it. The question wasn't about whether or not it can be "enforced". The question was whether or not it is MANDATED by the religion. It is! Enforcement is irrelevant, as no aspect of religion is enforceable in a secular/free society with a First Amendment.
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