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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 2:52:21 GMT
Religions often teach about having sympathy and kindness for others. Do religions teach about having empathy for others? Would any religious person like to discuss what her religion has to say on the issue.? Or is that you believe empathy is partly an innate human feeling and partly something that you learn from your own experiences and situations? Thus, religions have not got much to say about it?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 22, 2018 5:27:39 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 5:55:46 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion. Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station, 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. |
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Post by kls on Jul 22, 2018 5:58:23 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion. Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. Holy crap, WOW. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 22, 2018 6:00:45 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion. Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. Terrapin Station is the guy who says slavery doesn't exist anymore, that it was wiped out in the 1800's. He ignores the existence of wage-and-debt slavery. Not very empathetic. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 6:04:52 GMT
Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. Holy crap, WOW. Well, I am sorry if that is not correct. But that is what I have felt from reading your posts. Again, your posts depict that you are a nice human being. No doubt about that. But it seems as if you have certain principles/beliefs/understanding from which you do not deviate. It often seems as if you are not able to understand why people behave differently than how they should. But if you feel I am wrong in thinking like that then I apologise. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 6:08:19 GMT
Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. Terrapin Station is the guy who says slavery doesn't exist anymore, that it was wiped out in the 1800's. He ignores the existence of wage-and-debt slavery. Not very empathetic. Yes, Terrapin's posts can often come as shocking. It seems he thinks that people cannot exploit others unless they are not breaking laws. A few years back one of his posts almost shocked me. He once said that Hitler cannot be held responsible for many of the Nazi murders. The people who carried out the murders/killing were the only ones responsible.
If I hire a goon to murder you then Terrapin will only hold the goon for your murder and not me.
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Post by kls on Jul 22, 2018 6:12:49 GMT
Well, I am sorry if that is not correct. But that is what I have felt from reading your posts. Again, your posts depict that you are a nice human being. No doubt about that. But it seems as if you have certain principles/beliefs/understanding from which you do not deviate. It often seems as if you are not able to understand why people behave differently than how they should. But if you feel I am wrong in thinking like that then I apologise. Maybe I'm looked at the word you used as meaning not compassionate. But I realize you weren't going for that. Seems you were going for I just don't get it. To be honest I don't see where other people tend to put a whole lot of effort when it comes to worrying about how I see things and trying to understand my of view. Not even close to the effort I'm willing to make when it comes to getting them. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 6:22:21 GMT
Well, I am sorry if that is not correct. But that is what I have felt from reading your posts. Again, your posts depict that you are a nice human being. No doubt about that. But it seems as if you have certain principles/beliefs/understanding from which you do not deviate. It often seems as if you are not able to understand why people behave differently than how they should. But if you feel I am wrong in thinking like that then I apologise. Maybe I'm looking at the word you used as meaning not compassionate. But I realize you weren't going for that. To be honest I don't see where other people tend to put a whole lot of effort when it comes to worrying about how I see things and trying to understand my of view. Not even close to the effort I'm willing to make. Just to clarify I didn't mean you are not compassionate. That would be cactus - the guy with very little compassion. I think even he would accept it. That's why I wrote additional lines about cactus and Terrapin (the atheists) and not you.
I do try to understand your posts (the ones you post on religion board as I don't read politics board) and some how I feel a bit odd at reading your posts. I find your posts pretty good and would rate you as a nice person. What I find odd is that it seems you have problems in understanding other people's views and behaviour. The way you phrase your posts to other is what made me mention you as a person who has less empathy. That said, it would have been better of me to point that out when that actually happened in any discussion than here in this thread all of a sudden.
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Post by kls on Jul 22, 2018 6:24:12 GMT
Maybe I'm looking at the word you used as meaning not compassionate. But I realize you weren't going for that. To be honest I don't see where other people tend to put a whole lot of effort when it comes to worrying about how I see things and trying to understand my of view. Not even close to the effort I'm willing to make. If anything in real life I've been told I try to hard and I need to stop bothering when someone else isn't making sense. Just to clarify I didn't mean you are not compassionate. That would be cactus - the guy with very little compassion. I think even he would accept it. That's why I wrote additional lines about cactus and Terrapin (the atheists) and not you.
I do try to understand your posts (the ones you post on religion board as I don't read politics board) and some how I feel a bit odd at reading your posts. I find your posts pretty good and would rate you as a nice person. What I find odd is that it seems you have problems in understanding other people's views and behaviour. The way you phrase your posts to other is what made me mention you as a person who has less empathy. That said, it would have been better of me to point that out when that actually happened in any discussion than here in this thread all of a sudden.
No problem. I edited the post you quoted as you were typing. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 6:31:12 GMT
Just to clarify I didn't mean you are not compassionate. That would be cactus - the guy with very little compassion. I think even he would accept it. That's why I wrote additional lines about cactus and Terrapin (the atheists) and not you.
I do try to understand your posts (the ones you post on religion board as I don't read politics board) and some how I feel a bit odd at reading your posts. I find your posts pretty good and would rate you as a nice person. What I find odd is that it seems you have problems in understanding other people's views and behaviour. The way you phrase your posts to other is what made me mention you as a person who has less empathy. That said, it would have been better of me to point that out when that actually happened in any discussion than here in this thread all of a sudden.
No problem. I edited the post you quoted as you were typing. Thanks. I have also removed the quote that you edited. As a Christian do you believe your religion teaches anything on empathy? I was watching Les Miserables (old version from 50s) a few days back and in that movie I saw a scene in which the priest showed both empathy and sympathy toward a convict who had stolen something from him. So even if religion might not have addressed anything on empathy, religious people may find empathy hidden in teachings of their religion. |
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Post by phludowin on Jul 22, 2018 6:33:37 GMT
My two cents.
Most ethical systems, religious or not, have a variant of the Golden Rule implemented. Therefore I believe that empathy is a human trait (or even a trait found in highly developed animals).
Therefore, if religions teach empathy, it's because they are made up by humans. At least that's my opinion.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 6:38:21 GMT
My two cents. Most ethical systems, religious or not, have a variant of the Golden Rule implemented. Therefore I believe that empathy is a human trait (or even a trait found in highly developed animals). Therefore, if religions teach empathy, it's because they are made up by humans. At least that's my opinion. Very good point. I was just about to bring up the Golden Rule. I think most religions have not directly used empathy (also may be because no religion is written in English) but used Golden Rule to sort of hint at human conduct in various situations against different kinds of people. |
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Post by kls on Jul 22, 2018 6:43:40 GMT
No problem. I edited the post you quoted as you were typing. Thanks. I have also removed the quote that you edited. As a Christian do you believe your religion teaches anything on empathy? I was watching Les Miserables (old version from 50s) a few days back and in that movie I saw a scene in which the priest showed both empathy and sympathy toward a convict who had stolen something from him. So even if religion might not have addressed anything on empathy, religious people may find empathy hidden in teachings of their religion. I'd say one would have to expand on the Golden Rule. It kind of assumes we all want the same things. Many things will be in common, but differences aren't addressed at all. If you don't want what I want maybe doing onto you as I'd have you do onto me isn't going to make you happy. It may annoy you or make you miserable. Maybe the best way is to do onto others as they'd have us so unto them. |
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Post by 🌵 on Jul 22, 2018 7:27:43 GMT
Maybe I'm looking at the word you used as meaning not compassionate. But I realize you weren't going for that. To be honest I don't see where other people tend to put a whole lot of effort when it comes to worrying about how I see things and trying to understand my of view. Not even close to the effort I'm willing to make. Just to clarify I didn't mean you are not compassionate. That would be cactus - the guy with very little compassion. I think even he would accept it. That's why I wrote additional lines about cactus and Terrapin (the atheists) and not you.
I do try to understand your posts (the ones you post on religion board as I don't read politics board) and some how I feel a bit odd at reading your posts. I find your posts pretty good and would rate you as a nice person. What I find odd is that it seems you have problems in understanding other people's views and behaviour. The way you phrase your posts to other is what made me mention you as a person who has less empathy. That said, it would have been better of me to point that out when that actually happened in any discussion than here in this thread all of a sudden.
Just wanted to confirm that I'm not at all compassionate - as my dad likes to say, "if you're looking for sympathy you'll find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary". I'm also lacking in empathy, in that I often have difficult understanding how others think and feel. I find it hard to see things from other people's perspectives. I sometimes wish I was more empathetic, because knowing how other people are thinking would presumably increase my ability to manipulate them so as to get what I want. I don't think any of this has much to do with my atheism though. After all, there are plenty of atheists with different personalities. If I did accept a religion, I might behave in ways that seemed more compassionate if this were required by the rules of that religion, but I expect I would do this for purely selfish reasons - e.g. "I'll give to charity because it will increase my chances of getting into heaven" - rather than out of genuine compassion. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 12:03:38 GMT
Just to clarify I didn't mean you are not compassionate. That would be cactus - the guy with very little compassion. I think even he would accept it. That's why I wrote additional lines about cactus and Terrapin (the atheists) and not you.
I do try to understand your posts (the ones you post on religion board as I don't read politics board) and some how I feel a bit odd at reading your posts. I find your posts pretty good and would rate you as a nice person. What I find odd is that it seems you have problems in understanding other people's views and behaviour. The way you phrase your posts to other is what made me mention you as a person who has less empathy. That said, it would have been better of me to point that out when that actually happened in any discussion than here in this thread all of a sudden.
Just wanted to confirm that I'm not at all compassionate - as my dad likes to say, "if you're looking for sympathy you'll find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary". I'm also lacking in empathy, in that I often have difficult understanding how others think and feel. I find it hard to see things from other people's perspectives. I sometimes wish I was more empathetic, because knowing how other people are thinking would presumably increase my ability to manipulate them so as to get what I want. I don't think any of this has much to do with my atheism though. After all, there are plenty of atheists with different personalities. If I did accept a religion, I might behave in ways that seemed more compassionate if this were required by the rules of that religion, but I expect I would do this for purely selfish reasons - e.g. "I'll give to charity because it will increase my chances of getting into heaven" - rather than out of genuine compassion. I didn't mean that your lack of belief in god or religion has anything to do with your lack of empathy. What I meant to say was that given that you lack empathy and also lack faith in religion/god it means there is a greater chance that you also lack compassion. Because the theists who lack empathy at least have fear factor that may lead them to have compassion. You have nothing but your own conscience.
I don't think that absolute lack of compassion is possible. You may not realise that but it may surface in unforeseen circumstances. However, you do lack compassion to a very great degree. At first I thought you just thought it would be cool to make a online personality like that. But it has been many years now and people can't fake personality for years. It is absolutely clear that you lack empathy as well as compassion. It is good of you to admit that. Some who lack empathy may not realise or if they do they may not accept.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 22, 2018 12:44:24 GMT
If ones imitate Jesus’ example they do so by empathy.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 22, 2018 12:45:01 GMT
Not sure if empathy is something that can be mandated by religion. Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. It seems to me that most folks use the concept of empathy (a) to refer to "communing" with the people who more or less already have the same feelings, opinions, etc. that they personally have, and (b) as an excuse for their tendency to defer (or conform) to norms, to consensuses, etc. But that's not what empathy is. Empathy is the ability to understand the feelings, motivations, etc. of other people, regardless of who the other person is, regardless of just how different they are than you, regardless of just how much you personally feel differently and disagree with the person in question. So, for example, let's say that we're talking about a boss berating a fellow employee. The boss is telling the employee that they're worthless, incompetent, they never should have been hired, etc. Part of empathy is understanding how that employee feels. If you're a fellow employee, especially one who is not the boss' "pet employee" or whatever, you can surely understand how the berated employee feels--that could easily be you in their shoes if you'd screwed up some work. But, you don't really have empathy if you can't also understand how the boss feels, what might have motivated him to react that way, etc. This is the case even if you think the boss is wrong, you don't really like the boss, etc. If you don't have empathy with respect to him, you don't really have empathy. The same thing goes for everyone, in every situation. If you don't have empathy for both Trayvon Martin AND George Zimmerman, you don't really have empathy. If you can't have empathy for Chales Manson as well as Sharon Tate, you don't really have empathy. If you can't have empathy for Hitler as well as the people he ordered killed, you don't really have empathy. Etc. The vast majority of people who make comments about who does and doesn't have empathy--usually where they're parading their own supposed empathy and someone else (like me) doesn't have empathy--don't have empathy for the berating boss, George Zimmerman, Manson, Hitler, rapists, etc. They only have empathy for the people who more or less already have the same feelings, opinions, etc. that they personally have. They shouldn't be trumpeting their own empathy unless they have empathy for everyone. Empathy doesn't imply agreeing with anyone or actually having the same views as them. Empathy doesn't imply conforming with norms. Signs of not having much empathy include being quick to negatively judge others, especially over-dramatic negative judgments, overreactions, and being eager to harshly punish others--people who want others dead, mutiliated, "locked away where we throw away the key," ostracized/excommunicated, etc. They see some other people as "evil," as "enemies," etc. Those people lack empathy towards people who are very different than them, different from accepted norms, etc. And that's no paradigm case of empathy. That's not understanding the concept. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 22, 2018 12:53:59 GMT
Yeah, I do not often see religions preaching about empathy even though certain religious figures might give very good messages regarding feeling empathy with others.
I understand empathy can be a very innate thing in certain individuals while some can learn through experience.
I do not want to judge others but I believe certain people such as Terrapin Station , 🌵 and kls have very little feelings of empathy. I am not saying that any of them are in any way worse human beings than you or me but I find them driven by their own beliefs and understanding than on trying to understand other people. I believe libertarians may have less empathy than average people but I could be wrong about this. I find it very fascinating because lower feelings of empathy can also mean lower conscience at least among the atheists so I believe people like Terrapin and Cactus enjoy life unhindered from what goes around them. Empathy doesn't imply agreeing with anyone or actually having the same views as them. Empathy doesn't imply conforming with norms. That's right. Empathy implies trying to understand other's pov in spite of differences. Basically looking at things from other people's point of view rather than your own. It may not imply accepting the views of others but trying to understand them |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 22, 2018 12:56:09 GMT
Religions often teach about having sympathy and kindness for others. Do religions teach about having empathy for others? Would any religious person like to discuss what her religion has to say on the issue.? Or is that you believe empathy is partly an innate human feeling and partly something that you learn from your own experiences and situations? Thus, religions have not got much to say about it? Having sympathy for people, acting kindly towards them, and having empathy with respect to them go hand in hand. It would be difficult to genuinely feel sympathy for anyone if you do not have empathy towards them. And kindness without empathy would be purely manipulative, which maybe shouldn't be classified as kindness. |
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