Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 22, 2018 4:56:52 GMT
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 22, 2018 13:14:05 GMT
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 13:38:10 GMT
No Further, the opinion piece is incorrect and reflects no indication of accuracy regarding the time it took to write one verse of Leviticus lol. Which was?  He wants me to pay 25.00 to see the article he wrote about it so I'll pass on that. Gay dude needs to get over the notion that there is a verse written about them. Homophobic dude needs to get over the notion that a biblical scholar is "gay" just because he has an interpretation about homosexual teachings in Leviticus that conflict with homophobic dude's indoctrination and limited perspective. Especially when homophobic dude admits that he hasn't even read the article.  |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jul 22, 2018 15:31:17 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia.
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 22, 2018 18:40:00 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. Scholars study bones, tools, ornaments, dwellings, artwork, burial structures, even ancient poop in order to understand past cultures. Why shouldn't they study ancient writings? And why do you think this scholar's analysis is apologetics? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 22, 2018 18:54:39 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. Scholars study bones, tools, ornaments, dwellings, artwork, burial structures, even ancient poop in order to understand past cultures. Why shouldn't they study ancient writings? And why do you think this scholar's analysis is apologetics? If only they studied ancient writing instead of inventing history for it... |
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 18:58:38 GMT
Scholars study bones, tools, ornaments, dwellings, artwork, burial structures, even ancient poop in order to understand past cultures. Why shouldn't they study ancient writings? And why do you think this scholar's analysis is apologetics? If only they studied ancient writing instead of inventing history for it... But they do study ancient writings (kind of their primary profession). It is the ignorant followers of the religion they’ve been indoctrinated into who invent histories. The world is not 6K years old, Peter is not a Pope, and Jesus wasn’t born in December 25th. Those are all “histories” that are completely made up, yet commonly accepted by the majority of Christians. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jul 22, 2018 19:14:37 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. Scholars study bones, tools, ornaments, dwellings, artwork, burial structures, even ancient poop in order to understand past cultures. Why shouldn't they study ancient writings? And why do you think this scholar's analysis is apologetics? "Scholars study bones, tools, ornaments, dwellings, artwork, burial structures, even ancient poop in order to understand past cultures. Why shouldn't they study ancient writings?"
That's fine, but I'm not talking about past cultures perse, I'm talking about what's actually in the Bible. It clearly forbids homosexuality. I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. Sake of argument lets say indisputable evidence came about that there was an actual historical Jesus, but it turns out "he" was actually a she. Obviously that would change the way many people (both religious and nonreligious) would perceive Jesus, but that wouldn't change the fact the Bible itself explicitly refers to Jesus as a male. Trying to make the Bible fit in line with actual historical evidence for Jesus in that case would require some riddiculous mental tap dancing ("Well the Bible is uh actually using "man" as a metaphor er, uh something like that")
"And why do you think this scholar's analysis is apologetics?"
Because he's trying argue against what's explicitly stated in the Bible. Trying to argue otherwise requires serious logical leaps in logic and mental gymnastics (aka apologetics)
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 22, 2018 19:21:13 GMT
Because he's trying argue against what's explicitly stated in the Bible. Trying to argue otherwise requires serious logical leaps in logic and mental gymnastics (aka apologetics) As I read the piece, he is trying to understand what is written in the Bible, not argue for it, or against it, or change it. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jul 22, 2018 19:32:01 GMT
Because he's trying argue against what's explicitly stated in the Bible. Trying to argue otherwise requires serious logical leaps in logic and mental gymnastics (aka apologetics) As I read the piece, he is trying to understand what is written in the Bible, not argue for it, or against it, or change it. It sounds like he is basically trying to argue against it. Obviously he's not expliciting saying it doesn't forbid homosexuality (it's clearly in there), but he is essentially saying past cultures from where Leviticus were ok with homosexuality (dunno how true that actually is) and past versions of Leviticus didn't actually forbid homosexuality and was actaully refering to homosexual incest, and later versions/translations decides to just make it homosexuality in general, therefore we can construe the Bible (or at least Leviticus) is actually fine with homosexuality if you look at it from the "correct" historical context. That seems to be what he's pretty much saying. |
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Post by Cody™ on Jul 22, 2018 20:24:00 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. So the bible should be disregarded altogether for being anti-homosexuality huh? Let’s roll out some facts. - Only 9% of homosexuals have been in a relationship last longer than 15 years. * These relationships are almost never monogamous * - Only 4.5% of homosexual men will stay faithful. Some studies conclude that even 4.5% is an optimistic figure. *Compared to 85% of heterosexual women & 75% of heterosexual men* - In a study of 156 gay men. Only 7 were monogamous. All 7 were together for less than 5 years. In other words none were monogamous after 5 years in relationship. - In a study of 900 gay men who claimed they were in a commited relationship. *747 of them(83%) reported having sex with someone outside their relationship within the past 12 months. - Incidences of domestic violence are double in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships. - 75% of homosexuals will experience some form of domestic violence at some point in their lives. - Homosexuals will suffer far more mental health problems. - Lesbian women are twice as likely to report mental heath problems as straight women. - Gay men are more than twice as likely to report mental health problems compared to straight men. - People in gay marriages are 3 times for likely to commit suicide than those in straight marriages. - Young people are 4 times for likely to commit suicide if they’ve participated in gay behaviours. - Gay people are far more likely to suffer from these diseases than straight people. Chlamydia trachomatis Cryptosporidium Giardia lamblia Herpes simplex virus HIV Human Papilloma virus Isospora Belli Microsporidia Gonorrhoea Viral hepatitis B&C Syphilis - HIV diagnoses alone is 44 times higher in gay men and 40 times higher in gay women compared to straights. - On average homosexuals will die 20 years younger than straight people due to diseases inherent with the gay lifestyle. Looks to to me like the bible could be on to something calling the homo lifestyle a no no. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible because not only is it contrary to God’s design for us but because by practicing it gays do damage to their own bodies. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jul 22, 2018 20:34:10 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. So the bible should be disregarded altogether for being anti-homosexuality huh? Let’s roll out some facts. - Only 9% of homosexuals have been in a relationship last longer than 15 years. * These relationships are almost never monogamous * - Only 4.5% of homosexual men will stay faithful. Some studies conclude that even 4.5% is an optimistic figure. *Compared to 85% of heterosexual women & 75% of heterosexual men* - In a study of 156 gay men. Only 7 were monogamous. All 7 were together for less than 5 years. In other words none were monogamous after 5 years in relationship. - In a study of 900 gay men who claimed they were in a commited relationship. *747 of them(83%) reported having sex with someone outside their relationship within the past 12 months. - Incidences of domestic violence are double in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships. - 75% of homosexuals will experience some form of domestic violence at some point in their lives. - Homosexuals will suffer far more mental health problems. - Lesbian women are twice as likely to report mental heath problems as straight women. - Gay men are more than twice as likely to report mental health problems compared to straight men. - People in gay marriages are 3 times for likely to commit suicide than those in straight marriages. - Young people are 4 times for likely to commit suicide if they’ve participated in gay behaviours. - Gay people are far more likely to suffer from these diseases than straight people. Chlamydia trachomatis Cryptosporidium Giardia lamblia Herpes simplex virus HIV Human Papilloma virus Isospora Belli Microsporidia Gonorrhoea Viral hepatitis B&C Syphilis - HIV diagnoses alone is 44 times higher in gay men and 40 times higher in gay women compared to straights. - On average homosexuals will die 20 years younger than straight people due to diseases inherent with the gay lifestyle. Looks to to me like the bible may could be on to something calling the homo lifestyle a no no. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible because not only is it contrary to God’s design for us but because by practicing it gays do damage to their own bodies. "- Gay men are more than twice as likely to report mental health problems compared to straight men. - People in gay marriages are 3 times for likely to commit suicide than those in straight marriages. - Young people are 4 times for likely to commit suicide if they’ve participated in gay behaviours."
Yeah probably because of people like you, jughead.
"- HIV diagnoses alone is 44 times higher in gay men and 40 times higher in gay women compared to straights. "
Yeah and straight couples are a 100% more likely to have unwanted pregnancies. What point are you trying make?
"- Incidences of domestic violence are double in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships."
That's only because men are more likely to hit other men than women
As far as promiscuity in homosexuality goes, that's only because men in general (gay or straight) are more likely to have multiple sex partners. You take women out of the equation and obviously it's going to increase dramatically.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2018 21:03:11 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. So the bible should be disregarded altogether for being anti-homosexuality huh? Let’s roll out some facts. - Only 9% of homosexuals have been in a relationship last longer than 15 years. * These relationships are almost never monogamous * - Only 4.5% of homosexual men will stay faithful. Some studies conclude that even 4.5% is an optimistic figure. *Compared to 85% of heterosexual women & 75% of heterosexual men* - In a study of 156 gay men. Only 7 were monogamous. All 7 were together for less than 5 years. In other words none were monogamous after 5 years in relationship. - In a study of 900 gay men who claimed they were in a commited relationship. *747 of them(83%) reported having sex with someone outside their relationship within the past 12 months. - Incidences of domestic violence are double in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships. - 75% of homosexuals will experience some form of domestic violence at some point in their lives. - Homosexuals will suffer far more mental health problems. - Lesbian women are twice as likely to report mental heath problems as straight women. - Gay men are more than twice as likely to report mental health problems compared to straight men. - People in gay marriages are 3 times for likely to commit suicide than those in straight marriages. - Young people are 4 times for likely to commit suicide if they’ve participated in gay behaviours. - Gay people are far more likely to suffer from these diseases than straight people. Chlamydia trachomatis Cryptosporidium Giardia lamblia Herpes simplex virus HIV Human Papilloma virus Isospora Belli Microsporidia Gonorrhoea Viral hepatitis B&C Syphilis - HIV diagnoses alone is 44 times higher in gay men and 40 times higher in gay women compared to straights. - On average homosexuals will die 20 years younger than straight people due to diseases inherent with the gay lifestyle. Looks to to me like the bible could be on to something calling the homo lifestyle a no no. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible because not only is it contrary to God’s design for us but because by practicing it gays do damage to their own bodies. - Half of these so-called “facts” are made up! - The other half are things the bible doesn’t even address. In fact, it literally gives NO logical reasons whatsoever for why homosexuality should be a sin at all. - Even IF all of those things were actually facts, AND we completely disregard the context surrounding such facts, none of those are indicative of homosexuality being morally wrong in any capacity, because they don’t guarantee that every homosexual will exhibit these actions, conditions, or behaviors. All it does is highlight certain struggles the homosexual community has to deal with (usually caused by abuse and discrimination). Your argument is akin to suggesting that being black is a sin because black people statistically commit more crimes, are more likely to be in prison, are more likely to grow up with a single parent, are more likely to be poor, and less likely to have a higher education. That’s essentially the argument you are making. |
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 22, 2018 22:34:55 GMT
Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. So the bible should be disregarded altogether for being anti-homosexuality huh? Let’s roll out some facts. - Only 9% of homosexuals have been in a relationship last longer than 15 years. * These relationships are almost never monogamous * - Only 4.5% of homosexual men will stay faithful. Some studies conclude that even 4.5% is an optimistic figure. *Compared to 85% of heterosexual women & 75% of heterosexual men* - In a study of 156 gay men. Only 7 were monogamous. All 7 were together for less than 5 years. In other words none were monogamous after 5 years in relationship. - In a study of 900 gay men who claimed they were in a commited relationship. *747 of them(83%) reported having sex with someone outside their relationship within the past 12 months. - Incidences of domestic violence are double in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships. - 75% of homosexuals will experience some form of domestic violence at some point in their lives. - Homosexuals will suffer far more mental health problems. - Lesbian women are twice as likely to report mental heath problems as straight women. - Gay men are more than twice as likely to report mental health problems compared to straight men. - People in gay marriages are 3 times for likely to commit suicide than those in straight marriages. - Young people are 4 times for likely to commit suicide if they’ve participated in gay behaviours. - Gay people are far more likely to suffer from these diseases than straight people. Chlamydia trachomatis Cryptosporidium Giardia lamblia Herpes simplex virus HIV Human Papilloma virus Isospora Belli Microsporidia Gonorrhoea Viral hepatitis B&C Syphilis - HIV diagnoses alone is 44 times higher in gay men and 40 times higher in gay women compared to straights. - On average homosexuals will die 20 years younger than straight people due to diseases inherent with the gay lifestyle. Looks to to me like the bible could be on to something calling the homo lifestyle a no no. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible because not only is it contrary to God’s design for us but because by practicing it gays do damage to their own bodies. There's so much packed into that screed that I'm not sure where to start. Were you saving this up or something? Rather than waste my time addressing all of the problems with what you've posted, I'll instead co-sign what the Captain has already said and add an additional thought: Inherent to several of your arguments is the proposition that monogamous sexual relationships are superior to non-monogamous sexual relationships, perhaps even that there is something intrinsically wrong with non-monogamous sexual relationships. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's just that: your opinion. You also apparently feel that longterm relationships lasting more than 15 years are superior to other relationships. Again, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. By all means, you should remain in a lifelong, monogamous relationship if that's something you personally value. (edit: I wouldn't necessarily claim that half of the statements are made up, but I would not be surprised in the least if careful examination of the sources didn't turn up significant methodological flaws in whatever studies the statements were based on.) |
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Post by goz on Jul 22, 2018 22:49:00 GMT
wh Well, anti gay stuff is in the Bible (as well as other outdated, regressive ideas), I don't see how any intellectually honest person could say otherwise. That's why it's best to just disregard the Bible altogether instead of trying to make clumsy, contrived apologetics of how it doesn't promote homophobia. So the bible should be disregarded altogether for being anti-homosexuality huh? Let’s roll out some facts. - Only 9% of homosexuals have been in a relationship last longer than 15 years. * These relationships are almost never monogamous * - Only 4.5% of homosexual men will stay faithful. Some studies conclude that even 4.5% is an optimistic figure. *Compared to 85% of heterosexual women & 75% of heterosexual men* <msreadoutspan class="msreadout-line-highlight">- In a study of </msreadoutspan><msreadoutspan class="msreadout-line-highlight">156</msreadoutspan><msreadoutspan class="msreadout-line-highlight"> gay men. Only 7 were monogamous. All 7 were <msreadoutspan class="msreadout-word-highlight">together</msreadoutspan> for less than 5 years. In other words</msreadoutspan> none were monogamous after 5 years in relationship. - In a study of 900 gay men who claimed they were in a commited relationship. *747 of them(83%) reported having sex with someone outside their relationship within the past 12 months. - Incidences of domestic violence are double in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships. - 75% of homosexuals will experience some form of domestic violence at some point in their lives. - Homosexuals will suffer far more mental health problems. - Lesbian women are twice as likely to report mental heath problems as straight women. - Gay men are more than twice as likely to report mental health problems compared to straight men. - People in gay marriages are 3 times for likely to commit suicide than those in straight marriages. - Young people are 4 times for likely to commit suicide if they’ve participated in gay behaviours. - Gay people are far more likely to suffer from these diseases than straight people. Chlamydia trachomatis Cryptosporidium Giardia lamblia Herpes simplex virus HIV Human Papilloma virus Isospora Belli Microsporidia Gonorrhoea Viral hepatitis B&C Syphilis - HIV diagnoses alone is 44 times higher in gay men and 40 times higher in gay women compared to straights. - On average homosexuals will die 20 years younger than straight people due to diseases inherent with the gay lifestyle. Looks to to me like the bible could be on to something calling the homo lifestyle a no no. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible because not only is it contrary to God’s design for us but because by practicing it gays do damage to their own bodies. Even if you facts are vaguely correct... (which I challenge because you are such a cherry picking bigot) so? It is NOT a gay lifestyle, it is who these men ( and women) are. Different, yet essentially the same. They are facts of nature and since there is no God and hence no design, to judge these people is cruel and antichristian, when Jesus preached acceptance. |
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Post by thefleetsin on Jul 23, 2018 15:04:20 GMT
homo love has been rampant through out human history. try and try again, those who feel personally insulted by it will try and legislate it out of reality but heeeeeeeeeeeere comes the boner! LOLOL
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Post by drystyx on Jul 23, 2018 15:31:30 GMT
My take on the Bible is New Testament leaning towards Gnostic, which is the only way to make the entire Bible fit in to the puzzle. The fundamentalist view is doomed because of the very contradictions that actually tell us that the enemy (the one who falsely accuses people who haven't the resources, power, ability, etc. to even be possibly guilty of what they're accused of) makes the rules in this existence based on inferior principles and inferior rules of Physics and Nature, and thus we have the supernatural words of Jesus alone that can be trusted in the Bible.
Taking this into the puzzle of the Old Testament, Jesus does herald Moses as great, but not "that great", and so much of what is written in his name is not bona fide Holy Ghost.
Therefore, it doesn't matter. Anyone who has lived into adulthood already knows the weakness of the laws of Moses, and in fact the complete falsehood of them. Two or more witnesses are more prone to agree in a lie than in truth. This we knew by experience, if we're honest. I've never seen the majority of Western culture minds ever tell the truth or be honest. We've been shown this in a supernatural way in the 2016 election where we had the worst possible stewards imaginable as the only ones to make the semi finals of the presidency. We've been shown this in many other instances as well. This "world" is void of inspiration, strategy, and holiness. Those attributes are going to be found in Heaven.
The laws of Moses are not only useless, but detrimental. They only help mobsters and demonic groupings to torment, cheat, and destroy as many people as they can, with no real motivation other than evil sadistic demonic worship. Was there a time when the laws of Moses were useful? Only if the Hebrews were totally the opposite of people today.
The Holy Ghost isn't concerned with gay guys. We live in a world of red herrings. The Holy Ghost is concerned with all people realizing that all flesh is inferior, that this is an inferior program that we have to muddle through. If some muddle through it with gay drifts, it's no different than those of us who are heterosexual drifting through with our own fleshly desires.
Just another red herring issued by Satan.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 23, 2018 15:45:00 GMT
homo love has been rampant through out human history. try and try again, those who feel personally insulted by it will try and legislate it out of reality but heeeeeeeeeeeere comes the boner! LOLOL Ahh, my friend of words, all that blather from cody and others, and you and lowtacks86 , in his first post, make your points so concisely!  Why can humans not evolve beyond fear of the "other"? Live and let live. Edit: Imagine... |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 23, 2018 17:28:26 GMT
I can’t imagine anyone being in fear of gay sex had by others.
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Post by drystyx on Jul 23, 2018 17:38:41 GMT
I can’t imagine anyone being in fear of gay sex had by others. You know, you hit upon something there. For a heterosexual, that's true, so obviously those who are afraid of gay sex being had by others are people with homosexual tendencies who feel left out. So, gay people having sex need to invite these individuals in sex acts with them. |
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