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Post by RiP, IMDb on Jul 22, 2018 5:44:37 GMT
UNFORTUNATELY, it's ANTICLIMACTIC ENDING with NO FIGHTING and Dracula being KILLED OFF-SCREEN (you hear him moan as he's supposedly being stabbed to death by a wooden stake through his heart) makes it NOT a great film but only a good one. Renfield's death was BETTER.
7/10.
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Post by telegonus on Jul 22, 2018 8:26:59 GMT
The Tod Browning Dracula is flawed and a far cry from perfect, and yet for all that is wrong in it, or just plain primitive in the way it was filmed, it's a classic. There's no taking that away from it. My sense is that it is the definitive Dracula. There have already been far more faithful and true to the spirit of the original Draculas, yet the 1931 version stands apart. It's so unique, original, offbeat and just plain funky it stands alone, and apart from all the others. Is is the best adaptation of the Bram Stoker novel? Probably not. Yet it has power, a kind of creaky, cobwebbed authority that (my sense) that can never be surpassed, to which I should add, for what it is.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 22, 2018 11:31:39 GMT
telegonus ^^^^ and it has armadillos ! what other version of the story can make that claim ? and possums too
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Post by petrolino on Jul 22, 2018 11:32:40 GMT
I find it beautiful.
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Post by amyghost on Jul 22, 2018 12:09:39 GMT
I think Stephen King once remarked that the film worked for him up until the moment Lugosi opened his mouth. I see what he was getting at, in that Bela's speech has been so parodied that it's hard to watch now without having a bit of that cultural affect rub off on the viewer. But it's visually striking, the roughness of it being no small part of the reason. And it includes a scene I wish more Hollywood films would have taken a cue from: the first time Dracula arises from his coffin, the soundtrack is dead silent (pardon the pun); no music, nada--and it makes that sequence eerie as hell. Any subsequent H'wood production from then on, be it horror, romance, straight drama, whatever, would insist on somewhat spoiling the effect with 'atmospheric' music or sound effects, rather than learning from this single scene just how effective complete silence can sometimes be.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 22, 2018 15:43:52 GMT
I think Dracula’s great, in spite (or because?) of the creakiness and slow-as-molasses Browning mise-en-scène. I don’t think it’s the best from a pure cinematic perspective (that’d probably be Bride of Frankenstein) or even the most schlocky fun ( Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man) or even the best vampire flick the studio put out ( Dracula’s Daughter). But for all that, at times it’s my favorite of the lot, and that has a lot to do with what telegonus mentioned—atmosphere, “creepy, cobwebbed authority.” It was the first horror film I probably ever saw, and as a kid it scared me—not in the jump-scare sense, but in the mounting terror, the sense of all-encompassing mood that can surround and disorient you like Dracula’s cape. I wrote something on it at the Monster Kids Board, here. Rick, one of the members there, wrote of “…something ancient about the thing [Dracula]…. It feels almost less like an old movie than something found in an old cave and effervesced into the light.” I completely agreed and wrote: Typical too-long Salzmank essay, probably.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 23, 2018 18:21:26 GMT
Typical too- long short Nalkarj essay,
fify
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Post by mikef6 on Jul 23, 2018 18:25:17 GMT
Dracula vs. Drácula (The “Spanish Dracula”)
Which, oh which, is actually the better film? The English language version filmed on the Universal lot during the day, or the Spanish language version with an entirely different cast, crew and director, who filmed on the same sets from dusk to dawn?
Browning’s version features many awkwardly staged scenes as well as some huge continuity errors. David Manners told disc commenter David Skal that Browning was never on the set when Manners was present and never gave him any direction. If he got any direction at all, it was from cinematographer Karl Freund. Further evidence of Browning’s lack of interest (if not total absence) is the prominence – in the foreground of one scene and in the back (center screen) of another – of a raggedly cut piece of cardboard that is stuck to the shade of a table lamp to prevent glare in the camera lens.
Dr. Van Helsing just suddenly appears at Seward’s Sanitarium with no explanation as to who he is or where he came from.
Renfield creeps across the floor toward a nurse who has fainted, but the scene cuts away and its outcome is never explained. Drac’s attacks on his victims are all cut off early. These are just a few of the problems.
On the other hand, the “Spanish Dracula,” which runs about 30 minutes longer than Browning’s, covers the continuity breaks and restages the clunky blocking of the English version. Editing, acting, direction – all look more “modern” that what Browning did. It is much less tiring to watch.
But………the Tod Browning version still remains the keeper (if you’re just going to pick one) and the reason can be explained in two words: Bela Lugosi. His indelible portrayal – which insured the continuance of the franchise down to this very day – cannot be denied its influence or its power. Immortal – like Dracula himself.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 23, 2018 18:31:53 GMT
mikef6Is the Spanish version available with English sub-titles ? You make it sound really worth finding and watching.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 23, 2018 18:38:06 GMT
Re=post from the Film General Dracula thread : There may be something great about it … it was made in 1931 … by my calculation, 87 years ago, and we are still watching it, talking about it, quoting it, enjoying it and, for some of us, still loving it and not in an Ed Woods way.
I am getting dizzy from looking for replies that disappear because IDENTICAL THREADS have been put on multiple boards ! Anyone else ?
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Post by mikef6 on Jul 23, 2018 18:42:57 GMT
mikef6 Is the Spanish version available with English sub-titles ? You make it sound really worth finding and watching. If I remember correctly, I got both the Browning and the Spanish at the same time from Netflix although now I can't find the Spanish on that site. The "Spanish Dracula" can be found in several different packages bundled with the Browning and other Dracula films. A warning, though, my high opinion may be in the minority. Even on this thread, the Lugosi is praised for it being so rough hewn while I appreciated the Spanish for its smooth transitions and continuity. But, to repeat, Bela Lugosi makes the English language version tops for me.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 23, 2018 18:44:57 GMT
mikef6I have found that your "high regard" is usually right on the money !
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 23, 2018 18:52:26 GMT
BATouttaheck It really is worth watching, even if I don’t think it has the rewatch value of the English-language version. George Melford’s direction and special-effects really are impressive, and the supporting cast (especially Lupita Tovar and Barry Norton as the heroine and hero, respectively) are better than their Anglo counterparts. Unfortunately, I think Carlos Villarías and Eduardo Arozamena, as the Count and Van Helsing, are awful in their parts, far worse than Lugosi and Edward van Sloan. (The Renfields are pretty much a wash.) Too, I think the Spanish Drac is wholly without the “mystic poetry” that I praised in that essay above (and thanks as ever for the compliment, amico mio); admittedly, that may be the lack of the “roughness” that Mike ascribes to the English version. The Spanish is much more streamlined and, thus, much more conventional and ineffective. Methinks, at least. But, with Mike, I definitely think every fan of the English version should see the Spanish at least once. One more thing, to quote the now nigh-ubiquitous Lt. Columbo: my library has the Dracula Legacy Collection, which has the Lugosi Drac, Daughter, Son, House, and Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein—along with the Spanish Drac as a special feature. That’s how I saw it; you may want to check to see if your library has that one.
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Post by telegonus on Jul 23, 2018 19:03:14 GMT
I think Dracula’s great, in spite (or because?) of the creakiness and slow-as-molasses Browning mise-en-scène. I don’t think it’s the best from a pure cinematic perspective (that’d probably be Bride of Frankenstein) or even the most schlocky fun ( Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man) or even the best vampire flick the studio put out ( Dracula’s Daughter). But for all that, at times it’s my favorite of the lot, and that has a lot to do with what telegonus mentioned—atmosphere, “creepy, cobwebbed authority.” It was the first horror film I probably ever saw, and as a kid it scared me—not in the jump-scare sense, but in the mounting terror, the sense of all-encompassing mood that can surround and disorient you like Dracula’s cape. I wrote something on it at the Monster Kids Board, here. Rick, one of the members there, wrote of “…something ancient about the thing [Dracula]…. It feels almost less like an old movie than something found in an old cave and effervesced into the light.” I completely agreed and wrote: Typical too-long Salzmank essay, probably. Truly, Salzmank, from your piece I get what makes Dracula stand out from the rest of the Uni "pack", as it were: that if feels more like a dream than a movie; and that it shows more than it tells. The film seduces the viewer more than it entertains him, and it turns us all into Renfields, in a manner of speaking, although fortunately, since it's a movie after all, we're spared his terrible death. By comparison, even the great James Whale's Frankenstein is a film with a clear cut beginning, middle and end. The sequel is a prolix, oftentimes humorous light and magic show that draws attention to its being a movie; while The Wolf Man enlists the viewer's sympathies. Dracula envelopes us.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 23, 2018 19:05:30 GMT
mikef6 , just a few brief observations on Browning’s apparent disinterest (uninterest?). I think Skal’s book is excellent, but Manners’s recollections aren’t supported by anyone else who was on set at the time; in fact, if I’m remembering correctly, in Skal’s own Browning biography he quotes crew-members who recall Browning as “animated” and interested throughout filming. Browning even grew angry at Universal for recutting the film in post-production. Also, there was a huge thread at the Monster Kids board about whether the cardboard was intentional or unintentional, and it appears (I not having followed it fully) that the cardboard actually was a common practice at the time for use as an eye shield, to reduce light in the eyes. Gary Prange wrote this: Very intriguing, though, whether it’s a flub or not.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 23, 2018 19:08:09 GMT
Truly, Salzmank, from your piece I get what makes Dracula stand out from the rest of the Uni "pack", as it were: that if feels more like a dream than a movie; and that it shows more than it tells. The film seduces the viewer more than it entertains him, and it turns us all into Renfields, in a manner of speaking, although fortunately, since it's a movie after all, we're spared his terrible death. By comparison, even the great James Whale's Frankenstein is a film with a clear cut beginning, middle and end. The sequel is a prolix, oftentimes humorous light and magic show that draws attention to its being a movie; while The Wolf Man enlists the viewer's sympathies. Dracula envelopes us. That’s it exactly, Telegonus. And that’s why I think, perhaps because it’s the first of the lot, that it really does stand alone.
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Post by telegonus on Jul 23, 2018 19:36:35 GMT
Truly, Salzmank, from your piece I get what makes Dracula stand out from the rest of the Uni "pack", as it were: that if feels more like a dream than a movie; and that it shows more than it tells. The film seduces the viewer more than it entertains him, and it turns us all into Renfields, in a manner of speaking, although fortunately, since it's a movie after all, we're spared his terrible death. By comparison, even the great James Whale's Frankenstein is a film with a clear cut beginning, middle and end. The sequel is a prolix, oftentimes humorous light and magic show that draws attention to its being a movie; while The Wolf Man enlists the viewer's sympathies. Dracula envelopes us. That’s it exactly, Telegonus. And that’s why I think, perhaps as the first of the lot, that it really does stand alone. Thanks for that, Salzmank. The only Uni from the same or maybe any period I can think of that can give Dracula a run for its money in its uncanny seductiveness would be Karl Freund's The Mummy, a film I dearly love, and which, although made just a year after the Browning picture is far more technically "accomplished". It's a smoother film, for sure; and the music enhances its effect. Edward Van Sloan's Dr. Mueller is far more the outsider than the more confident and professional Van Helsing. The latter is more or less on his home turf in London, inasmuch as he's a European on familiar ground, while Mueller is a European abroad. The good guys in The Mummy are all strangers in a strange land; while in Dracula it's the main character who's on foreign soil. Yet both films are poetic, emphasize the otherworldly.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 23, 2018 19:41:57 GMT
Thanks for that, Salzmank. The only Uni from the same or maybe any period I can think of that can give Dracula a run for its money in its uncanny seductiveness would be Karl Freund's The Mummy, a film I dearly love, and which, although made just a year after the Browning picture is far more technically "accomplished". It's a smoother film, for sure; and the music enhances its effect. Edward Van Sloan's Dr. Mueller is far more the outsider than the more confident and professional Van Helsing. The latter is more or less on his home turf in London, inasmuch as he's a European on familiar ground, while Mueller is a European abroad. The good guys in The Mummy are all strangers in a strange land; while in Dracula it's the main character who's on foreign soil. Yet both films are poetic, emphasize the otherworldly. Yes, definitely; I think Everson called The Mummy “the closest someone ever came to making a tonal poem out of horror,” or something to that effect. It’s also seductive and uncanny, but I think Dracula envelops you a bit more, makes you see things through its eyes (perhaps because of that lack of normal structure again? Not sure). But I definitely agree about its poetic qualities. One can also make a case for Karl Freund’s other great horror (albeit not for Uni), Mad Love—which may bolster the case for Freund’s contributions to Dracula.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 23, 2018 19:49:43 GMT
I think the film was a victim of Universal's distaste with the theme of the novel "evil foreigner seeks to exploit English women and is killed by various young strong native men."
The changes they made from the stage play bears this out. Renfield is no longer a mental patient--he is a normal guy who is driven insane.
Van Helsing is no longer an elderly adviser-he is the one who kills Dracula, and the young man does pretty much nothing (reminds me of Svengali where the young guy does nothing but lose at the end).
Lugosi seems more of a Valentino than a real demonic force. I prefer his role in Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein--he is more menacing and obviously evil.
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Jul 23, 2018 20:51:45 GMT
SO FAR one person voted this 11 thus indicating it's the GREATEST and their MOST-FAVORITE film he/she has EVER seen in his/her ENTIRE lifetime. There can be ONLY one 11 and ONLY one 00.
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