|
Post by cwsims on Jul 25, 2018 21:18:40 GMT
Making Goldberg Heel or Making Sting Heel I remember WCW made both Heel not too long before it closed its doors. Stings heel turn was horrible. but Goldbergs might have been far worse having Goldberg appear as a corporate sellout working with Russo and Bischoff was ultimate fail
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 22:50:46 GMT
I don't remember a Sting heel turn at all. What happened there? I remember them trying to turn Goldberg heel for a short stint and it didn't work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 23:11:08 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 0:10:06 GMT
Wow, that is god awful looking. Of course it takes DDP, Luger, Sid, Sting, and a baseball bat just to defeat Hogan. Surprised Hogan let Sting use a black bat.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 11, 2018 22:32:07 GMT
Really, everything WCW did from Starrcade 1997 to the moment it went out of business was dumber than what came before it. So at any given moment of WCW beyond that point, you were effectively watching what was, in real time, the dumbest thing ever.
I'm not even through all of 1998 on my network rewatch, and I already just don't give a shit about anything going on in the promotion now that Warrior's ridiculous run has concluded. I mean, you've got Bret Hart in there being criminally wasted, Scott Hall just flat-out fucking drunk on the air, Hogan and Bischoff cutting interminable twenty-plus minute promos... It's -- oof. And I've miles to go before it's over!
Anyway, my answer is heel Sting if memory serves correctly. Because he's at that point really the only legacy guy left besides Flair (and I guess you could sort of argue Luger is technically an old NWA guy) and has by far he most equity in that role. Goldberg was a different type of character.
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Aug 14, 2018 22:03:35 GMT
They went through a long stretch where just about everything they did was stupid.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 15, 2018 19:39:26 GMT
They went through a long stretch where just about everything they did was stupid. Yes. As I said: Starrcade 1997 THROUGH the sale of the company! All of it, just utterly idiotic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 19:48:05 GMT
do they still wear masks?
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Aug 15, 2018 20:57:15 GMT
They went through a long stretch where just about everything they did was stupid. Yes. As I said: Starrcade 1997 THROUGH the sale of the company! All of it, just utterly idiotic. I agree about that timeline. Though I will say they did some questionable things in the early 90's but that's not nearly as bad as the timeline you mentioned
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 15, 2018 21:06:04 GMT
Yes. As I said: Starrcade 1997 THROUGH the sale of the company! All of it, just utterly idiotic. I agree about that timeline. Though I will say they did some questionable things in the early 90's but that's not nearly as bad as the timeline you mentioned Yeah, all of their attempts to be WWF-lite were cringe, but on those same cards you'd have like the Hollywood Blondes killing it, with maybe Flair on top or Vader and then like a Cactus Jack match lower down the card. There was ENOUGH that, at least for me, those PPVs and Clash of the Champions etc were a bit more bearable. You know? It's like you're still eating a bowl of shit, but every five minutes someone hands you a mint.
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Aug 16, 2018 2:21:18 GMT
I agree about that timeline. Though I will say they did some questionable things in the early 90's but that's not nearly as bad as the timeline you mentioned Yeah, all of their attempts to be WWF-lite were cringe, but on those same cards you'd have like the Hollywood Blondes killing it, with maybe Flair on top or Vader and then like a Cactus Jack match lower down the card. There was ENOUGH that, at least for me, those PPVs and Clash of the Champions etc were a bit more bearable. You know? It's like you're still eating a bowl of shit, but every five minutes someone hands you a mint. Yeah true. There was still enough solid talent to where it was worth watching. Unless you went to one of those house shows and were treated to about 300 headlocks and armbars. Not that there's anything wrong with grabbing a hold, but man they really tanked it sometimes on some of those handheld shows I watched lol. But I digress. I just thought it was a really really bad move when they started going the family entertainment route in the early 90's when the wwf was already doing that. That turned off millions of wrestling fans when both major companies did it. That's really what gave rise to ECW at the time. People wanted wrestling they could take more seriously. I think that's what led to that big wrestling recession also at the time. Too much family entertainment. Even the indies were doing it.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 16, 2018 2:26:45 GMT
Yeah, all of their attempts to be WWF-lite were cringe, but on those same cards you'd have like the Hollywood Blondes killing it, with maybe Flair on top or Vader and then like a Cactus Jack match lower down the card. There was ENOUGH that, at least for me, those PPVs and Clash of the Champions etc were a bit more bearable. You know? It's like you're still eating a bowl of shit, but every five minutes someone hands you a mint. Yeah true. There was still enough solid talent to where it was worth watching. Unless you went to one of those house shows and were treated to about 300 headlocks and armbars. Not that there's anything wrong with grabbing a hold, but man they really tanked it sometimes on some of those handheld shows I watched lol. But I digress. I just thought it was a really really bad move when they started going the family entertainment route in the early 90's when the wwf was already doing that. That turned off millions of wrestling fans when both major companies did it. That's really what gave rise to ECW at the time. People wanted wrestling they could take more seriously. I think that's what led to that big wrestling recession also at the time. Too much family entertainment. Even the indies were doing it. Great points. Yeah, I'll bet some of those WCW house shows were rough. It's not unlike when WCW finally did close and a sizeable portion of the people who watched wrestling -- millions of people -- just tuned out forever. I would say that in terms of talking to Attitude Era fans it's like a 50% chance they stopped watching circa March 2001-whenever Rocky stopped being full-time, SummerSlam 2002 or something.
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Aug 16, 2018 2:47:48 GMT
Yeah true. There was still enough solid talent to where it was worth watching. Unless you went to one of those house shows and were treated to about 300 headlocks and armbars. Not that there's anything wrong with grabbing a hold, but man they really tanked it sometimes on some of those handheld shows I watched lol. But I digress. I just thought it was a really really bad move when they started going the family entertainment route in the early 90's when the wwf was already doing that. That turned off millions of wrestling fans when both major companies did it. That's really what gave rise to ECW at the time. People wanted wrestling they could take more seriously. I think that's what led to that big wrestling recession also at the time. Too much family entertainment. Even the indies were doing it. Great points. Yeah, I'll bet some of those WCW house shows were rough. It's not unlike when WCW finally did close and a sizeable portion of the people who watched wrestling -- millions of people -- just tuned out forever. I would say that in terms of talking to Attitude Era fans it's like a 50% chance they stopped watching circa March 2001-whenever Rocky stopped being full-time, SummerSlam 2002 or something. That's an interesting point about the attitude era fans tuning out. There were also a ton of people that became wrestling fans in that period because they turn on the tv and see the Rock and Austin and all that. But those fans all left just as fast as they came once that 2001 period came along. But even when it came to a lot of the diehard fans, they just burned everybody out with all that hotshotting and 2 companies trying to outdo each other for ratings. You can't keep topping what you did if you're having the best talent in the world having main event matches on tv every week. In my view, wrestling was built on the less is more concept. That concept went out the window in that period and I think it had negative longterm affects to the business as a whole. It's great at the time to see all that great wrestling on tv every week. But there's a reason why that wasn't done in years past. They knew it would kill their business. But at the same time they didn't have to deal with having to get quarter hour ratings and hourly ratings. The money came from the house shows.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 16, 2018 15:07:41 GMT
Great points. Yeah, I'll bet some of those WCW house shows were rough. It's not unlike when WCW finally did close and a sizeable portion of the people who watched wrestling -- millions of people -- just tuned out forever. I would say that in terms of talking to Attitude Era fans it's like a 50% chance they stopped watching circa March 2001-whenever Rocky stopped being full-time, SummerSlam 2002 or something. That's an interesting point about the attitude era fans tuning out. There were also a ton of people that became wrestling fans in that period because they turn on the tv and see the Rock and Austin and all that. But those fans all left just as fast as they came once that 2001 period came along. But even when it came to a lot of the diehard fans, they just burned everybody out with all that hotshotting and 2 companies trying to outdo each other for ratings. You can't keep topping what you did if you're having the best talent in the world having main event matches on tv every week. In my view, wrestling was built on the less is more concept. That concept went out the window in that period and I think it had negative longterm affects to the business as a whole. It's great at the time to see all that great wrestling on tv every week. But there's a reason why that wasn't done in years past. They knew it would kill their business. But at the same time they didn't have to deal with having to get quarter hour ratings and hourly ratings. The money came from the house shows. Yeah, you basically nailed it. Somewhere along the way, Vince forgot all of that "less is more" wisdom that he definitely had at one point and strangely adopted all of the failed things and bad Nitro habits that allowed him to beat Nitro years earlier. So now Raw is three hours, written on the fly, full of shitty promos and what should be big matchups but aren't because of the 50/50 booking and lack of squash matches, and nothing ever really happens and nobody gets over. Meanwhile, you have the NXT show demonstrating exactly what a wrestling show should be doing, how it should feature and promote its talent, and for how long -- particularly from 2014 to Dusty's death. It's a weird time to be a wrestling fan, quite honestly.
|
|