spiderwort
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@spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Mar 22, 2017 0:23:25 GMT
I think the one quantifiable characteristic of any Arthur Penn film was his brilliance with actors. Actors are always superb in Penn films, a testament, no doubt, to his Actors Studio training. His cinematic style is fairly amorphous - ranging from the very simple (Left-Handed Gun), to the rhapsodic (moments of elegiac/ surrealistic/ lyrical beauty in The Miracle Worker and Bonnie and Clyde), to the slightly experimental (Mickey One). He seemed to use an obvious, "showy" cinematic style only in a deeply organic way; when it's completely in the service of the story and is precisely the best way to tell the story most meaningfully.
All his films (even those not completely successful) possess a cinematic and "moral" clarity that I appreciate. He was always interested in the moral implications of his characters' actions - perhaps this is another defining characteristic of his work. I think his two best films are The Miracle Worker, which has moments of genius, and Bonnie and Clyde, which is one of the truly great, watershed American films; a masterpiece, IMO.
Any other thoughts on this director and his films?
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Post by movielover on Mar 22, 2017 0:40:01 GMT
Yes, I agree, The Miracle Worker and Bonnie & Clyde, along with Little Big Man, are his best movies.
Night Moves is an interesting private eye mystery. Some people don't like it, but I do.
Alice's Restaurant and Four Friends are pretty decent too. They really capture the hippie attitude and spontaneity of the 1960s.
He's a good director.
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Post by OldAussie on Mar 23, 2017 3:47:02 GMT
Thanks for the thread - it got me to finally watch The Miracle Worker after it sat on my shelf for a decade. The thing about Penn's films is that I find they get better with subsequent viewings.
This is especially true of Little Big Man and Night Moves.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 23, 2017 4:19:35 GMT
Seems I've enjoyed many of his films and been totally unaware that they were directed by the same man. I really have to pay more attention to who directed what. Arthur Penn filmography linkRe: His skill with actors : "He directed 8 different actors in Oscar-nominated performances: Patty Duke, Anne Bancroft, Estelle Parsons, Warren Beatty, Faye Dunaway, Gene Hackman, Michael J. Pollard and Chief Dan George. Duke, Bancroft and Parsons won Oscars for their performances in one of Penn's movies."
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Post by london777 on Mar 23, 2017 5:46:06 GMT
Mar 21, 2017 20:40:01 GMT -4 movielover said:
Night Moves is an interesting private eye mystery. Some people don't like it, but I do.The thing about Penn's films is that I find they get better with subsequent viewings. This is especially true of ... Night Moves. I watched Night Moves two years back and was disappointed. Almost felt cheated by the ending. Watching it two weeks ago it hit me. The film is playing around with tropes and I had fallen for the same sleight of hand as its hero, Harry Moseby (played by Gene Hackman). He thought he was the unstoppable hero of a private eye movie who would end up solving the case and getting the girl, and I thought I was watching such a movie. There is no excuse for either of us because he is actually mocked for thinking that early in the film. The reality is somewhat different. In fact he is in a neo-noir and it is messier and deflating of his ego. I liked it better second time around.
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Post by OldAussie on Mar 23, 2017 5:59:29 GMT
I watched Night Moves two years back and was disappointed. Almost felt cheated by the ending.
Watching it two weeks ago it hit me.
My history with Night Moves is similar. Saw it in the 70s and thought it was O.K. but had no inclination to see it again.
Only when I stumbled across it on television about 15 years later did it really have an impact on me. Now I have the DVD and watch it every couple of years.
There's so much going on in the film I keep discovering something new each time.
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Post by joekiddlouischama on Mar 23, 2017 8:41:38 GMT
I think the one quantifiable characteristic of any Arthur Penn film was his brilliance with actors. Actors are always superb in Penn films, a testament, no doubt, to his Actors Studio training. His cinematic style is fairly amorphous - ranging from the very simple ( Left-Handed Gun), to the rhapsodic (moments of elegiac/ surrealistic/ lyrical beauty in The Miracle Worker and Bonnie and Clyde), to the slightly experimental ( Mickey One). He seemed to use an obvious, "showy" cinematic style only in a deeply organic way; when it's completely in the service of the story and is precisely the best way to tell the story most meaningfully. All his films (even those not completely successful) possess a cinematic and "moral" clarity that I appreciate. He was always interested in the moral implications of his characters' actions - perhaps this is another defining characteristic of his work. I think his two best films are The Miracle Worker, which has moments of genius, and Bonnie and Clyde, which is one of the truly great, watershed American films; a masterpiece, IMO. Any other thoughts on this director and his films? The text that I placed in purple makes an excellent point, and Bonnie and Clyde is indeed a case in point. The film is quite stylized, sometimes surreal, and violently lyrical. In that kind of movie, no matter how compelling it may be on a certain level, human authenticity and emotional poignancy are often sacrificed—I would actually cite some of Stanley Kubrick's films, especially from the late sixties on, as examples of this cost. But Bonnie and Clyde is a deeply poignant, emotionally haunting film full of pathos—the lyricism and surrealism are not idle at all, and instead those wondrous qualities facilitate a surprising degree of gravitas and sensitivity. In this regard, I might analogize Penn to another director making influential (although not critically acclaimed in those days) movies around the time of Bonnie and Clyde: Sergio Leone out of Italy. Even more stylized than Penn, Leone was a deliriously operatic, hugely mythic director whose films nonetheless depicted humanity on an earthier, more grubbily realistic, and more viscerally intense level than the movies (writ large) had previously presented. On a more intimate level emotionally, director Mike Nichols was also using stylistic lyricism to display human warts, especially in The Graduate, released the same year as Bonnie and Clyde. And one could argue that director Nicholas Ray was doing something similar years earlier with such mid-fifties offerings as Johnny Guitar and Rebel Without a Cause, although he was more constrained by the edicts and stylistics of the day—even as he managed to shockingly shake off those constraints at times. Perhaps what also unites these directors is that while they were all more than capable of thematic cynicism, they were not cynical toward their protagonists—unlike many directors (Kubrick, perhaps), they did not conflate the two types of cynicism. Thus their films felt honest rather than exploitative, no matter how stylized they might have been. Of course, a failure to be cynical of one's protagonist can occasionally be a weakness, as in Penn's 1976 Western The Missouri Breaks, where the director seems to treat Marlon Brando's character with full seriousness even as that character descends into absurdity. But Penn delivered some of Hollywood's most important and iconic films in perhaps the industry's most culturally incisive era. At his best, he bridged traditionalism and revisionism—the old Hollywood and the new—in seamless fashion.
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Post by teleadm on Mar 24, 2017 19:23:43 GMT
One could nearly ask Whatever Happened to Arthur Penn? Did he became a victim in the aftershocks of Heaven's Gate? That director never ever would be given artistic freedom. Nothing after Four Friends is anything close to what he created before, it just seems he became a director for hire, maybe for name value.
I've liked to read about all the movies up to Four Friends, and I have no urge to disargue, I like what all of you has written, and my feelings after watching Night Moves was just the same the first time.
Target 1985, wonder it Gene Hackman felt any difference in direction nearly 10 years after Night Moves, was it the same Arthur Penn? It's not a bad little action thriller with interesting locations and good acting, but none of the old Penn trademarks, with an unbelievable car chase on boats (!!!).
Dead of Winter 1987, a remake of My Name is Julia Ross 1947, Mary Steenburgen was good in this rather creepy old fashioned chiller.
Penn & Teller Get Killed 1989, Not the Penn who made Bonnie and Clyde? sadly it was.....
The Portrait TV-movie 1993, unremarkable but lovely made for TV movie starring old pros lile Gregory Peck and Lauren Bacall, as an old couple who are still in love with each others.
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Post by joekiddlouischama on Mar 25, 2017 7:03:08 GMT
Love your notion of the film playing around with tropes and how the audience gets trapped liked the character does, London. I would agree. I would also add that the same thing happens in Bonnie and Clyde, which I know from my experience of seeing it in the theater numerous times when it was first released. The film has brilliant performances by actors working with a great script, which used humor to trap the audience in much the same way that Bonnie and Clyde were trapped in their cycle of crime, having fun for awhile until reality suddenly and violently hit them in the face. Anyone who saw it in the theater at the time of its release will know exactly what I mean. Audiences screamed with laughter, again and again, until that fateful turning point when the banker jumped on the car and was killed. Then silence. Nothing was funny after that, not for Bonnie and Clyde, not for the audience. And the face of American film was changed forever.That scene really is memorable—visually incisive with expert editing. I viewed Bonnie and Clyde in the theater in October 2013, and although the audience was not large enough to gauge any discernible reaction, I can certainly appreciate your comments. Incidentally, Bonnie and Clyde is receiving another theatrical re-release (of the two-day variety) later this year (in August) to commemorate the movie's fiftieth anniversary. I had seen Bonnie and Clyde about three times previously, on VHS or DVD, but part of what stood out to me when viewing the film in the theater three and a half years ago was the sense of a Vietnam War allegory. In effect, the film militarizes the police or turns it into a para-military force indulging in excess, rendering an analogy to Vietnam inescapable.
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Post by petrolino on Mar 26, 2017 0:55:55 GMT
I think Arthur Penn was a brilliant filmmaker. He directed four titles in my list of my favourite American movies : 'The Miracle Worker' (1962), 'The Chase' (1966), 'Bonnie And Clyde' (1967) and 'Night Moves' (1975).
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Post by hi224 on Mar 27, 2017 3:01:08 GMT
I love night moves here.
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