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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 14:41:02 GMT
Noah is the biggest fib ever.
Why would anyone believe the rest of a book written by liars?
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 7, 2018 15:43:57 GMT
Noah is the biggest fib ever. Not necessarily... YOU ARE NOT THINKING FOURTH DIMENSIONALLY! There are "8.7 million animal species on Earth" known... TODAY!Most of them were not known during Noah's time. Until 1492, most people in the "Civilized" world did not know about the Americas... And so it didn't exist to them! The "World" was a smaller place back then! There were no Cars or Trains in the Ancient Past. Cultures only had primitive Sailing Ships to make long distance journeys over seas... Even the lack of having the Wheel kept people from traveling very far over land. Ancient Cultures had a lack of vocabulary, and a lack of concepts... Their dictionary and encyclopedias were merely pamphlet sized, compared to the volumes of multiple books that we have today... The World to YOU, is the entire planet. The "World" to NOAH, might have simply been his local town. While, I am not saying that story of Noah, as told in the Bible, was 100% true, or even partially true... There still may have been a rancher named Noah who built a large boat, and loaded it with his farm animals, and rode out a large 'hurricane' (for example) that flooded his town and destroyed everything, and everyone he knew. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 7, 2018 15:53:02 GMT
Noah is the biggest fib ever. Why would anyone believe the rest of a book written by liars? All religions (western (middle eastern) or eastern) are made up by human beings. Man made religions were written for a purpose. Probably to bring order and control over the society. Most of the religions were started with good intentions. While the religions were written according the understanding of the people of a particular time period, they may contain certain teachings that are still likely relevant for humanity. I think it is moral teachings of religions that should be debated more than incomplete scientific details that their holy books contain. As time will progress more and more people who follow current religions will start to follow it as philosophy rather a belief that all the things mentioned by religions are true.
I do not know if it is right to call those people who wrote religions as liars. They may have been having visions/suffering from schizophrenia or deliberately making up stuffs for what they perceived was good for people. Imagine being a person 2500 years ago. If you create an all-powerful being then you are likely to attach any power to that being. Such scientific inaccuracies was more a result of giving a narrative to people. If it was done with good intentions then it might not be considered outright lies. That is considering the level of knowledge that average human beings had during the period when religions were written.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 16:01:18 GMT
Who carried all the human parasites?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 16:06:36 GMT
Noah is the biggest fib ever. Not necessarily... YOU ARE NOT THINKING FOURTH DIMENSIONALLY! There are "8.7 million animal species on Earth" known... TODAY!Until 1492, most people in the "Civilized" world did not know about the Americas... And so it didn't exist to them! The "World" was a smaller place back then! There were no Cars or Trains in the Ancient Past. Cultures only had primitive Sailing Ships to make long distance journeys over seas... Even the lack of having the Wheel kept people from traveling very far over land. Ancient Cultures had a lack of vocabulary, and a lack of concepts... Their dictionary and encyclopedias were merely pamphlet sized, compared to the volumes of multiple books that we have today... The World to YOU, is the entire planet. The "World" to NOAH, might have simply been his local town. While, I am not saying that story of Noah, as told in the Bible, was 100% true, or even partially true... There still may have been a rancher named Noah who built a large boat, and loaded it with his farm animals, and rode out a large 'hurricane' (for example) that flooded his town and destroyed everything, and everyone he knew. No, that doesn't work I'm afraid. It's not a local story. It's very specific, god was pissed, and killed everything on earth not in the ark in a fit of childish genocidal rage, because he wasn't getting enough likes or something. That's 8.7 million different species must have been aboard that boat. Plus supplies for all of them for over a year. A boat the size of one and a half football pitches... It's not gonna work is it. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 7, 2018 16:10:49 GMT
Noah is the biggest fib ever. Why would anyone believe the rest of a book written by liars? All religions (western (middle eastern) or eastern) are made up by human beings. Man made religions were written for a purpose. Probably to bring order and control over the society. Most of the religions were started with good intentions. While the religions were written according the understanding of the people of a particular time period, they may contain certain teachings that are still likely relevant for humanity. I think it is moral teachings of religions that should be debated more than incomplete scientific details that their holy books contain. As time will progress more and more people who follow current religions will start to follow it as philosophy rather a belief that all the things mentioned by religions are true.
I do not know if it is right to call those people who wrote religions as liars. They may have been having visions/suffering from schizophrenia or deliberately making up stuffs for what they perceived was good for people. Imagine being a person 2500 years ago. If you create an all-powerful being then you are likely to attach any power to that being. Such scientific inaccuracies was more a result of giving a narrative to people. If it was done with good intentions then it might not be considered outright lies. That is considering the level of knowledge that average human beings had during the period when religions were written.
AJ, I sure hope you are right, and people stop fighting and dying over whose invisible friend is better. |
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 7, 2018 16:12:43 GMT
I do not know if it is right to call those people who wrote religions as liars. What you say can only be considered a Lie, if you know that what you are saying isn't true. It's hard to prove that people who lived back then did that. However, that's not to say that they didn't: misunderstand, misinterpret, have incorrect beliefs, ETC... about a great many things. |
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 7, 2018 16:30:53 GMT
No it isn't! There is no cargo manifest that indicates that he carried horses, pigs, cows, bears, mountain lions, kangaroos, koala bears, ETC... It just says, "every kind" of animal... That's a generic term. Hell, we are still finding new species on the planet TODAY... How can a book written centuries ago, know about species that we didn't even know existed until today? And where is it written that "North America, Antarctica, Australia, Africa, Greenland", ETC was flooded? It doesn't! It just says "The World"... Another generic term. As I said in my earlier post, most cultures didn't know about the continents on the other side of the planet back then... How could any of them now, that they were flooded too? You are making assumptions that the people who created these stories thought the way YOU do... and they didn't. It's like the word "GAY". Remember the song to The Flintstones? "We'll have a gay old time!" People used to use that word when they wanted to say Happy. Now it means being attracted to someone of the same gender. Words change over time. The meaning for the word "World" has changed too! The WORLD is no longer flat!... Or do still believe that? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 16:43:11 GMT
No it isn't! There is no cargo manifest that indicates that he carried horses, pigs, cows, bears, mountain lions, kangaroos, koala bears, ETC... It just says, "every kind" of animal... That's a generic term. Hell, we are still finding new species on the planet TODAY... How can a book written centuries ago, know about species that we didn't even know existed until today? And where is it written that "North America, Antarctica, Australia, Africa, Greenland", ETC was flooded? It doesn't! It just says "The World"... Another generic term. As I said in my earlier post, most cultures didn't know about the continents on the other side of the planet back then... How could any of them now, that they were flooded too? You are making assumptions that the people who created these stories thought the way YOU do... and they didn't. It's like the word "GAY". Remember the song to The Flintstones? "We'll have a gay old time!" People used to use that word when they wanted to say Happy. Now it means being attracted to someone of the same gender. Words change over time. The meaning for the word "World" has changed too! The WORLD is no longer flat!... Or do still believe that? This is the word of god himself... Pretty sure he knows what 'the world' is, and 'every kind of animal'. No, your theory doesn't wash. 8.7 million animals (times two) on that boat... Not to mention the genetic problems from repopulating the planet from a single mother and father from every animal... Everything would be dead from inbreeding by now, or at best resemble something that dropped out of a dinosaurs nose. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 7, 2018 17:25:28 GMT
Not necessarily... YOU ARE NOT THINKING FOURTH DIMENSIONALLY! There are "8.7 million animal species on Earth" known... TODAY!Until 1492, most people in the "Civilized" world did not know about the Americas... And so it didn't exist to them! The "World" was a smaller place back then! There were no Cars or Trains in the Ancient Past. Cultures only had primitive Sailing Ships to make long distance journeys over seas... Even the lack of having the Wheel kept people from traveling very far over land. Ancient Cultures had a lack of vocabulary, and a lack of concepts... Their dictionary and encyclopedias were merely pamphlet sized, compared to the volumes of multiple books that we have today... The World to YOU, is the entire planet. The "World" to NOAH, might have simply been his local town. While, I am not saying that story of Noah, as told in the Bible, was 100% true, or even partially true... There still may have been a rancher named Noah who built a large boat, and loaded it with his farm animals, and rode out a large 'hurricane' (for example) that flooded his town and destroyed everything, and everyone he knew. No, that doesn't work I'm afraid. It's not a local story. It's very specific, god was pissed, and killed everything on earth not in the ark in a fit of childish genocidal rage, because he wasn't getting enough likes or something. That's 8.7 million different species must have been aboard that boat. Plus supplies for all of them for over a year. A boat the size of one and a half football pitches... It's not gonna work is it. The Bible never says 8.7 million species were preserved on the Ark. Therefore, you are the one who is lying. Strange how you and your kind accept Darwin's origin of the species except when it comes to this. Why don't you forget about it, and simply enjoy your life? . |
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 7, 2018 17:49:29 GMT
This is the word of god himself... Pretty sure he knows what 'the world' is, and 'every kind of animal'. No, your theory doesn't wash. 8.7 million animals (times two) on that boat... There were NOT 8.7 million animals (times two) on that boat! It's IMPOSSIBLE! You need to understand... There is no proof that God exists, therefore, We don't know that his "word" ever happened at all... and even if he does exist... We have no way of being 100% sure that what was written by some human was what he TRULY said... It's all falls under hearsay, which could have been misinterpreted! Look, I don't understand why you can't grasp the concept of living in a different time... I'll try this once more: The Giant Panda & The Mountain Gorilla were only discovered within the last 150 years... How could Noah load his ARK with these two species, thousands of years before anyone in "THE WORLD" knew about them? Did these animals just magically survive the flood? Did GOD, go on a creation spree after the flood, and create more Animals (And possibly more Humans)? WHERE IS ANY MENTION OF THIS WRITTEN?The phrase "Every Animal", can only be applied to only the animals that were known at the time. And we have no way of knowing what that number was! And even then... Would YOU actually take the time to list each animal out of, let's say: 1 million, or would you just say "Every Animal"?... I highly doubt any ancient record keeper would list all 1 million that survived, or list the 7.7 Million animals that he didn't know about... And how do we know that "Every" Animal survived the great flood? Isn't there a chance that some didn't survive? Why aren't those animals mentioned in the texts? And if every animal didn't survive, wouldn't that prevent someone from being about to use the term: "EVERY"? The tallest mountain on our planet is Mt. Everest. It rises 29,029 ft above sea level... The MYTH claims that the flood covered even the tallest mountains... I can't accept that a 30,000 feet thick layer of water suddenly came out of nowhere and covered the entire planet, and that it magically disappeared... That makes no sense at all. And you are focusing on how many animals were on the boat? LOL! If GOD could create a 30,000 feet thick layer of water, maybe he miniaturized the cargo for the trip, or maybe he put them all in suspended animation so they would need to eat! Open you mind, and just except that the story as written is just an exaggeration of possible events, and that it is not meant to be take literally word for word... The words themselves were generic words or were simply misused. This is probably how the story should be read: Noah (The Local Rancher) was contacted by God (Had a vision of the Future) and built an Ark, and loaded it with Every Animal in the World (known to mankind at the time) and survived the great ("100 Year") flood which covered even the tallest mountains (hills) around the world (In Our Community)... Don't people all over the world today, read the same books, and see the same movies? Why couldn't this story have been passed around, by the Ancient Egyptians, The Vikings, The Romans, ETC...? There certainly wasn't a huge library of entertainment back then to chose from... A story like this would have easily passed from one culture to another and could have been incorporated into their own... Especially given the morality tale that is at the heart of the story. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 7, 2018 18:19:51 GMT
MCDemuth What is even the meaning of saving two members of species that were present in Noah's local town? Were those species exclusive to his local town? I do not think there are many animal species exclusive to any hometown. So if there were those species in other parts of the known world then there was no need to save just 2 members of each species. The fact is that I have no problems with scientific inaccuracies in holy books. But in this case there is no allegory involved. The intention of the writers is to say that all species were saved by Noah who carried them on his arc. Now what was the number of all species known at that time is not that matters most. If the claim that' Noah saved all species' is made then he has to save all species. Even during his age there must have been close to same number of species as there are now because if humans were present then sufficient time for evolution had already taken place.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 18:31:17 GMT
Noah is the biggest fib ever. Why would anyone believe the rest of a book written by liars? Noah was a Time Lord, the Ark was his TARDIS. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 18:46:15 GMT
MCDemuth What is even the meaning of saving two members of species that were present in Noah's local town? Were those species exclusive to his local town? I do not think there are many animal species exclusive to any hometown. So if there were those species in other parts of the known world then there was no need to save just 2 members of each species. The fact is that I have no problems with scientific inaccuracies in holy books. But in this case there is no allegory involved. The intention of the writers is to say that all species were saved by Noah who carried them on his arc. Now what was the number of all species known at that time is not that matters most. If the claim is that' Noah saved all species' is made then he has to save all species. Even during his age there must have been close to same number of species as there are now because if humans were present then sufficient time for evolution had already taken place. AJ gets it. |
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Post by Eλευθερί on Aug 7, 2018 18:53:45 GMT
Until 1492, most people in the "Civilized" world did not know about the Americas... And so it didn't exist to them! The "World" was a smaller place back then! "Civilized" by whose definition?, one wonders. |
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Post by Eλευθερί on Aug 7, 2018 18:58:23 GMT
8.7 million animal species on Earth
... and falling.
In our reckless shortsightedness and selfish greed, we are destroying Creation.
Species that took millions of years to develop (or that were created by God back in the beginning) are being wiped out for all eternity.
Consider this: If you follow the news, you know that scientists periodically report the identification of species previously unknown to have existed, even today.
Well, there are probably creatures going extinct that scientists have not yet even discovered. And with them, their secrets are lost forever.
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 7, 2018 19:21:45 GMT
What is even the meaning of saving two members of species that were present in Noah's local town? Some stories claim there were FIVE or more of each species... And others claim his name was not Noah... Which one is correct? Were those species exclusive to his local town? I do not think there are many animal species exclusive to any hometown. So if there were those species in other parts of the known world then there was no need to save just 2 members of each species. Let's say for just a moment, that 8.7 million animal species were in fact on the boat. As you suggested, we know today that species are scattered across the planet. 8.7 million animal species can NOT be found in the same location, and so, they would not all have been in the town where Noah lived. So either... Noah would have had to travel the world to get them all, which in and of itself, would have been a far bigger task than building the Ark, and would have probably been nearly impossible, even if he had all the time in the world ( and another boat) to do it, which he didn't... or the animals would have had to travel across the planet, swimming across oceans, to get to the Ark, even if there was enough time, for this mass migration. I don't think this was possible either. This all suggests that if there is any truth to this story at all, it would have had to had been a local event, which means only the animals on his ranch, or in his town, were on the boat... That might have been possible, but it was no where near 8.7 million animal species! The fact is that I have no problems with scientific inaccuracies in holy books. But in this case there is no allegory involved. The intention of the writers is to say that all species were saved by Noah who carried them on his arc. Now what was the number of all species known at that time is not that matters most. If the claim is that' Noah saved all species' is made then he has to save all species. Even during his age there must have been close to same number of species as there are now because if humans were present then sufficient time for evolution had already taken place. "scientific inaccuracies"? I think you are missing the obvious overlook problem with the story... Not meaning to personally pick you out of a crowd here, but... I find it interesting that NO ONE ever seem to notice that the "stories" in the Bible are usually written this way: "And GOD Said"?... Clearly the Bible isn't an Autobiography written by GOD himself! "To Noah"?... Hmm... I guess Noah didn't write the Bible either! So... Who was it that actually wrote these stories, and when exactly were they written?Sounds to me, like We should interpret much of the Bible, at a minimum, as nothing but Hearsay! Hearsay is almost always never 100% reliable! "scientific inaccuracies"?... There would have to be, wouldn't there? However, that doesn't mean there isn't at least a grain of truth to any of it, because we can't prove that the stories were entirely made up... But, we shouldn't just accept that "every" animal as meaning 8.7 Million Species, either... because the writer most likely wasn't there to witness the event personally... or, as far as we know, never interviewed Noah or GOD to hear their version of events... All the writer could possibly know is that there were a lot of animals on the Ark... and made a generalization based on his belief that the world had completely flooded, and that every animal species that we know of today, would have had to have originated from those that were "saved" on the Ark at the time. I don't think the writer of the Bible ever considered "scientific inaccuracies"... If he had, he would have realized such a story was "impossible", and would have tried to reinterpret the stories in a way that made sense, such as a local flood, instead of a global flood. |
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 7, 2018 19:38:00 GMT
Until 1492, most people in the "Civilized" world did not know about the Americas... And so it didn't exist to them! The "World" was a smaller place back then! "Civilized" by whose definition?, one wonders. By mine moron... that's why I quoted the word... It was just an example. But, I see now, that it clearly was a shitty term that I shouldn't have used. It so sad that so many posters here can't focus on the actually point of a discussion or comment... We know that Native Americans, and the Vikings, and I think the Knights Templar, knew about America, before Columbus ever set sail. But it wasn't until Columbus returned, that the majority of the cultures in the world, which were interacting with each other, were finally enlightened that there were other continents, than just the ones that they were living on... "The "World" was suddenly a bigger place." |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 8, 2018 6:20:17 GMT
What is even the meaning of saving two members of species that were present in Noah's local town? Some stories claim there were FIVE or more of each species... And others claim his name was not Noah... Which one is correct? Were those species exclusive to his local town? I do not think there are many animal species exclusive to any hometown. So if there were those species in other parts of the known world then there was no need to save just 2 members of each species. Let's say for just a moment, that 8.7 million animal species were in fact on the boat. As you suggested, we know today that species are scattered across the planet. 8.7 million animal species can NOT be found in the same location, and so, they would not all have been in the town where Noah lived. So either... Noah would have had to travel the world to get them all, which in and of itself, would have been a far bigger task than building the Ark, and would have probably been nearly impossible, even if he had all the time in the world ( and another boat) to do it, which he didn't... or the animals would have had to travel across the planet, swimming across oceans, to get to the Ark, even if there was enough time, for this mass migration. I don't think this was possible either. This all suggests that if there is any truth to this story at all, it would have had to had been a local event, which means only the animals on his ranch, or in his town, were on the boat... That might have been possible, but it was no where near 8.7 million animal species! The fact is that I have no problems with scientific inaccuracies in holy books. But in this case there is no allegory involved. The intention of the writers is to say that all species were saved by Noah who carried them on his arc. Now what was the number of all species known at that time is not that matters most. If the claim is that' Noah saved all species' is made then he has to save all species. Even during his age there must have been close to same number of species as there are now because if humans were present then sufficient time for evolution had already taken place. "scientific inaccuracies"? I think you are missing the obvious overlook problem with the story... Not meaning to personally pick you out of a crowd here, but... I find it interesting that NO ONE ever seem to notice that the "stories" in the Bible are usually written this way: "And GOD Said"?... Clearly the Bible isn't an Autobiography written by GOD himself! "To Noah"?... Hmm... I guess Noah didn't write the Bible either! So... Who was it that actually wrote these stories, and when exactly were they written?Sounds to me, like We should interpret much of the Bible, at a minimum, as nothing but Hearsay! Hearsay is almost always never 100% reliable! "scientific inaccuracies"?... There would have to be, wouldn't there? However, that doesn't mean there isn't at least a grain of truth to any of it, because we can't prove that the stories were entirely made up... But, we shouldn't just accept that "every" animal as meaning 8.7 Million Species, either... because the writer most likely wasn't there to witness the event personally... or, as far as we know, never interviewed Noah or GOD to hear their version of events... All the writer could possibly know is that there were a lot of animals on the Ark... and made a generalization based on his belief that the world had completely flooded, and that every animal species that we know of today, would have had to have originated from those that were "saved" on the Ark at the time. I don't think the writer of the Bible ever considered "scientific inaccuracies"... If he had, he would have realized such a story was "impossible", and would have tried to reinterpret the stories in a way that made sense, such as a local flood, instead of a global flood. I request you to please learn to make short and concise posts, man. I admire your efforts but not many people will take you seriously if you give long essays so frequently. So there are many conflicting versions of story of Noah. That only bolsters the intended point of @fjh |
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Post by Eλευθερί on Aug 8, 2018 6:46:54 GMT
"Civilized" by whose definition?, one wonders. By mine moron... that's why I quoted the word... Was using a personal attack necessary? Ordinarily, when someone places a term in quotation marks in the way that you did, they are doing so to signal that they do not personally agree with how the term is used by others. The quotation marks are used in a way similar to how the term "so-called" is used. Different people define civilized in different ways. For many, the term has implied people who are or who emulate white Christians. |
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