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Post by captainbryce on Aug 14, 2018 2:04:05 GMT
This one is for the scientifically challenged, religiously inclined folks who think that scientific theories are “disproved” by future theories, and later become “wrong”. Here is an actual scientist who explains in layman’s terms why you are dumb! Enjoy.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 14, 2018 2:12:40 GMT
Neil deGrasse Tyson is an actor. BTW, Bill Nye the Science Guy is an actor too,
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 2:42:59 GMT
I'm sorry but your secret is out. You are not a scientist, you are not a teacher. You are a soldier. You are fighting for what you believe is science against what you believe is religion. You do not understand either science or religion. You are a just a grunt like others on this board.
You miss the real beauty and elegance of relativity. What is so remarkable about relativity is how many people believe in it who could not possibly have seen any proof of it. The difference between the path of Mercury with and without relativity is so trivial it is quite beyond the means of measurement available to even most of the top laboratories.
It is funny watching you criticize religion for believing things for which only a very few people have seen the proof, then doing exactly the same thing yourself. You're just a stupid grunt, repeating things you could not begin to understand, but it's a bit cute.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 3:07:50 GMT
Neil deGrasse Tyson is an actor. <video> BTW, Bill Nye the Science Guy is an actor too, Neil deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye appear in an episode of the science fiction series Stargate: Atlantis. A character on that fictional television show, Dr. Rodney McKay, is attending a presentation by a colleague and rival and meets Tyson and Nye there. I watch way too much science fiction. Pardon me.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 14, 2018 3:13:54 GMT
Neil deGrasse Tyson is an actor. <video> BTW, Bill Nye the Science Guy is an actor too, Neil deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye appear in an episode of the science fiction series Stargate: Atlantis. A character on that fictional television show, Dr. Rodney McKay, is attending a presentation by a colleague and rival and meets Tyson and Nye there. I watch way too much science fiction. Pardon me. It's their way of twisting a grapefruit in our faces. An actor was playing the role of a scientist named Dr. Rodney McKay. The other two were just playing the roles that they always play.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 4:00:18 GMT
I'm sorry but your secret is out. You are not a scientist, you are not a teacher. You are a soldier. You are fighting for what you believe is science against what you believe is religion. You do not understand either science or religion. You are a just a grunt like others on this board. You miss the real beauty and elegance of relativity. What is so remarkable about relativity is how many people believe in it who could not possibly have seen any proof of it. The difference between the path of Mercury with and without relativity is so trivial it is quite beyond the means of measurement available to even most of the top laboratories. It is funny watching you criticize religion for believing things for which only a very few people have seen the proof, then doing exactly the same thing yourself. You're just a stupid grunt, repeating things you could not begin to understand, but it's a bit cute. So you do understand science and religion, above all others Arlon. Isn't that cute!
You now have to explain relativity to me and in relation to what and I think it best you use science not religion to sound convincing. Are we getting wiser in our old age now? You might find this fun. Explain whether in Doppler shift it is the frequency of light that changes or merely its velocity with respect to the observer? Go ... Some history. Before Einstein did his famous relativity gigue, many top scientists puzzled over the nature of light, especially whether it is a particle or a wave. An interesting question if it is a wave, what is it a wave in? Does that medium represent absolute position? If the Earth is moving relative to absolute position, at what speed is that? They tried to measure the speed of the "ethereal wind" (for lack of a better term) and could not find it. Are we having fun yet?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 7:55:31 GMT
Science is right until its proven wrong.
Which happens a lot
Of course when it comes to religion vs science than science is always right.
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 14, 2018 8:19:35 GMT
Six and a half minutes of waffling just to make excuses for two prominent scientists who were basically both WRONG. LOL
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Post by Lugh on Aug 14, 2018 11:46:12 GMT
Scientists do say a lot of stuff about philosophy that is just complete bull and dress it up as scientifically proven.
Take the "expanding universe hypothesis". The universe is not expanding, a region of space is just taking over another. Sort of like how nations take over other nations.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2018 11:48:02 GMT
Science is right until its proven wrong. Which happens a lot Of course when it comes to religion vs science than science is always right.And never the twain shall meet. They coexist just fine.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 14, 2018 12:06:11 GMT
First my reaction before I watched the video:
Explains how science is always right? The only way someone could say that is if they didn't at all understand the most rudimentary philosophy of science ideas. One of the primary ideas of science is to pursue a counter-dogmatic epistemology. Claiming that something is "always right" certainly isn't counter-dogmatic.
Further, a core tenet of the sciences is that scientific claims are falsifiable. When you falsify a scientific claim, including theories, you do indeed disprove them. Those claims are then replaced with new, provisionally-verified (in lieu of falsification) claims. Entire approaches to scientific claim can be replaced in that way, too, a la a pardigm shift.
Okay, now checking out the video:
So, DeGrasse-Tyson is wrong that something that has been provisionally verified (and it's by definition always provisional) can not later be falsified (be shown to be false). At best, under instrumentalism, and a la a bit of a logical positivist bent, you could say that the earlier provisionally verified claim(s) have instrumental utility in the context wherein the provisional verification occurred. That can't be "erased" somehow.
However, he's right to counter the idea that science is kind of wishy-washy and arbitrary, which is what people are talking about when they complain that "first they said this, now they say that" (which is especially an impression people get about medical claims).
He's also right to stress that further qualifications of earlier claims are not falsifications. But that doesn't mean that earlier claims can not be falsified. Phlogiston as the mechanism of combustion is a traditional example of falsification of earlier claims. We didn't just further qualify or refine our phlogiston theories. We threw the idea of phlogiston into the bin.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Aug 14, 2018 13:43:23 GMT
Well science can't always be "right", that's actually what seperates it from religion, it must be changed and revised when needed. If new valid, evidence is presented, the old scientific model must be discarded and replaced with a new one (it's kinda why most scientists don't really bother with Lamarkian evolution anymore and why "Origin of the Species" isn't taught in school).
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 14:15:40 GMT
Are we getting wiser in our old age now? You might find this fun. Explain whether in Doppler shift it is the frequency of light that changes or merely its velocity with respect to the observer? Go ... Some history. Before Einstein did his famous relativity gigue, many top scientists puzzled over the nature of light, especially whether it is a particle or a wave. An interesting question if it is a wave, what is it a wave in? Does that medium represent absolute position? If the Earth is moving relative to absolute position, at what speed is that? They tried to measure the speed of the "ethereal wind" (for lack of a better term) and could not find it. Are we having fun yet? That is all very fine Arlon, with the amassed knowledge you posses, but you still haven't explained relativity and in relation to what? Suppose you tell me what you think first. That way I won't have to start from scratch and might only need to make a few trivial adjustments, if any.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 15:14:49 GMT
So you do understand science and religion, above all others Arlon. Isn't that cute! You now have to explain relativity to me and in relation to what and I think it best you use science not religion to sound convincing. Are we getting wiser in our old age now? You might find this fun. Explain whether in Doppler shift it is the frequency of light that changes or merely its velocity with respect to the observer? Go ... The speed of light is constant relative to the Doppler effect. Tell me what contemporary scientists you respect, Arlon. Go...
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 15:27:36 GMT
Are we getting wiser in our old age now? You might find this fun. Explain whether in Doppler shift it is the frequency of light that changes or merely its velocity with respect to the observer? Go ... The speed of light is constant relative to the Doppler effect. Tell me what contemporary scientists you respect, Arlon. Go... What about the frequency of light? Is it not usually dependent on the specific (quantum) energy difference between electron orbital levels? I respect Galileo for being a starting point for Newton. I respect Newton for formulating the laws of universal gravitation and for providing useful, widely repeatable methods of verifying them. I appreciate Einstein for the awesome elegance of relativity despite its being inappropriate for repeatable demonstrations. I rather obviously do not care one whit what you think about any of these things.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 15:32:44 GMT
The speed of light is constant relative to the Doppler effect. What about the frequency of light? Is it not usually dependent on the specific (quantum) energy difference between electron orbital levels? What about it? The change in perceived frequency with no perceived change in velocity is the Doppler effect. Let's try again... tell me what contemporary scientists you respect, Arlon.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 15:47:47 GMT
What about the frequency of light? Is it not usually dependent on the specific (quantum) energy difference between electron orbital levels? What about it? The change in perceived frequency with no perceived change in velocity is the Doppler effect. Let's try again... tell me what contemporary scientists you respect, Arlon. I suspect you're dodging the fact that you're having difficulty reconciling your various beliefs of the velocity, relative velocity, and frequency of light. I'm sorry, Einstein is contemporary as I can get for respected scientists. I suppose Jonas Salk was clever enough, but just an expansion on Edward Jenner really.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 15:59:56 GMT
What about it? The change in perceived frequency with no perceived change in velocity is the Doppler effect. Let's try again... tell me what contemporary scientists you respect, Arlon. I suspect you're dodging the fact that you're having difficulty reconciling your various beliefs of the velocity, relative velocity, and frequency of light. Uh, no? Care to explain your deflection? What a limited scientific vocabulary you must have.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 16:02:07 GMT
I suspect you're dodging the fact that you're having difficulty reconciling your various beliefs of the velocity, relative velocity, and frequency of light. Uh, no? Care to explain your deflection? What a limited scientific vocabulary you must have. What an ineffective bad attitude you have.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 22:34:27 GMT
Suppose you tell me what you think first. That way I won't have to start from scratch and might only need to make a few trivial adjustments, if any. I know jack, I was asking you. There are few things I'd rather do than discuss the mysteries of the universe, scientific and otherwise. Speculation doesn't bother me as much as it does some of you here. I actually enjoy it. I am careful to keep it separate from established facts, thank you anyway. There's no way I can prove relativity with my $50 telescope watching Mercury. There's no way you can prove it with your $500 telescope, or whatever you rich guys paid for your telescopes. If you're just trying to trap the "religious" guy into making scientific mistakes, I don't find that amusing at all. I have better things to do. I do find a lot of time for science fiction though. Years ago it was murder mysteries, "whodunits," on TV. I would watch NCIS, CSI, CSI Miami. CSI NY, Law and Order this and that, like eight or ten hours a week. I got tired of that. Now I watch Comet TV instead. It's science fiction. It's starting to burn out too. Plus I have to keep food on the table. I have to keep these old Windows XP computers working. I have to keep my 1959 convertible Peugeot 403 in working condition ... (Joke).
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