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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Aug 19, 2018 18:23:53 GMT
... is emotion. Even the non-MCU Marvel films were always better at it than DC. And it's one of the reasons why the MCU is so loved, even with a basic and generic plot. You can have a silly story or a convoluted one, a CGI overload, but as long as you're invested in your heroes, you can still have a really good film, because it has heart. And that comes from having really good emotional beats.
No DC films has really captured this level of emotion than this scene. And Hiddleston really stood on his own against a Shakespearan actor like Hopkins in this scene alone. It's part of the reason why Loki is a fan favorite. Tony and Pepper's relationship has been a nice and slow progression throughout the films and we'll probably even get a wedding in Avengers 4. Regardless of what you feel about the film or Gunn, Yondu's death is still one of the most emotional moments in the MCU.
The Dark Knight and Batman Begins are amazing films, and the emotional beats between Alfred and Bruce really help sell it, but outside of that with Rachel and Harvey Dent, Nolan really does not know how to do romance. Rachel's death was supposed to be emotional, but Nolan really squandered it by essentially making Rachel a slut. She loved Bruce in Begins, then wants to marry Harvey in TDK. It just makes her unsympathetic. Outside of TDK trilogy, DC hasn't really had any decent emotional beats.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 19, 2018 18:37:08 GMT
Superman beat all the Marvel movies combined just with the Glenn Ford scenes.
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kanekikun
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Post by kanekikun on Aug 19, 2018 18:48:05 GMT
Superman beat all the Marvel movies combined just with the Glenn Ford scenes. nah, that movie messed up its own message. papa kent dies to teach superman he cant do some stuff like keep a loved one from dying, but then in the end he uses his powers to time travel and undo lois dying. hypocrite. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 19, 2018 18:59:55 GMT
nah, that movie messed up its own message. papa kent dies to teach superman he cant do some stuff like keep a loved one from dying, but then in the end he uses his powers to time travel and undo lois dying. hypocrite. The message is that Superman could do something for himself--which is why you hear Glenn Ford's voice and Marlon Brando's. This is Superman choosing to something for himself for a change, not others. Represents his growth as a person to full independence.
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kanekikun
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Post by kanekikun on Aug 19, 2018 19:21:49 GMT
nah, that movie messed up its own message. papa kent dies to teach superman he cant do some stuff like keep a loved one from dying, but then in the end he uses his powers to time travel and undo lois dying. hypocrite. The message is that Superman could do something for himself--which is why you hear Glenn Ford's voice and Marlon Brando's. This is Superman choosing to something for himself for a change, not others. Represents his growth as a person to full independence.
but it ruinst hat earlies moment with pa kent. he uses his powers to selfishly save lois (and all the unheroic stuff he does in the enxt movie is worse) but wont save his dad. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 19, 2018 19:26:02 GMT
but it ruinst hat earlies moment with pa kent. he uses his powers to selfishly save lois (and all the unheroic stuff he does in the enxt movie is worse) but wont save his dad. It doesn't ruin the moment. He couldnt save his Earth dad. What was he going to do? Go back in time, take a course on heart surgery, and perform surgery on him? The death of Pa Kent was a reminder of his grief and he didnt want to relive that--in this case he was able to do something about it. The fact that he got so upset suggests he couldnt easily do it again--which is why the Donner ending for Superman 2 is so very wrong. Changing time in a freak act is fine-but doing it regularly screws up the logic.
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Post by kanekikun on Aug 19, 2018 19:39:40 GMT
but it ruinst hat earlies moment with pa kent. he uses his powers to selfishly save lois (and all the unheroic stuff he does in the enxt movie is worse) but wont save his dad. It doesn't ruin the moment. He couldnt save his Earth dad. What was he going to do? Go back in time, take a course on heart surgery, and perform surgery on him? The death of Pa Kent was a reminder of his grief and he didnt want to relive that--in this case he was able to do something about it. The fact that he got so upset suggests he couldnt easily do it again--which is why the Donner ending for Superman 2 is so very wrong. Changing time in a freak act is fine-but doing it regularly screws up the logic.
if he could go back to save lois then he should be willing to go back and save anyone he could. as it is him using it only for lois is very selfish. not as selfish as everything he did in superman 2 though. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 19, 2018 19:44:10 GMT
if he could go back to save lois then he should be willing to go back and save anyone he could. as it is him using it only for lois is very selfish. not as selfish as everything he did in superman 2 though. That's the point. He was finally doing something for himself as anyone would in a similar situation.
yeah he was selfish in Superman 2 and then paid for it. So in that sense he couldnt be too selfish.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 19, 2018 20:28:38 GMT
The way I see it, DC's emotional scenes are like waterfalls whereas MCU scenes are like rivers. DC is usually very good at framing their scenes to look epic and very dramatic, but in the end they lack depth. They rely more on shock value. For example: Rachel's death in TDK or Superman snapping Zod's neck in MOS or the infamous Martha scene... all of these were shot with clear intent of making them heavily dramatic scenes. Complete with overpowering music, a sense of loss, etc. But in the end, we didn't really care about the characters so the scenes didn't have lasting effect. Like a waterfall, it's loud but shallow.
MCU drama is more like rivers. They don't have the shock value of DC drama but they run deeper. The MCU is great at making subtle dramatic scenes that stick under your skin so they have a more lasting effect. Most people cared when Coulson got killed in Avengers. People cringed with Cap and Tony exchanged blows in CW. People felt sorry for Thor when he couldn't pick his hammer up in the SHIELD base.
It's because the MCU's drama is targeted into getting you invested in the character, whereas DC makes you invest in the moment.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Aug 19, 2018 20:36:33 GMT
The way I see it, DC's emotional scenes are like waterfalls whereas MCU scenes are like rivers. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 20, 2018 0:58:14 GMT
Let's play fill-in-the remaining paragraph. summers8, if they reply to this thread, will likely begin with "No...NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" How do you continue it from there? Either way, expect DC-Fan to like.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 1:05:56 GMT
DC just needs to start getting experimental instead of following trends.
They've got so many good characters that they could use for one-off stories that could later be tied into the larger universe. I'd love to see a film noir/action Question movie. I'd love to see a goofy superhero comedy with Booster Gold. I'd even settle for a supernatural thriller story about The Spectre.
But they've put all their eggs into the recognizable heroes' baskets and I think it's hurt them. Suicide Squad was their closest attempt to thinking outside of the box, but even that was a GotG imitator and a shoddy one due to studio meddling and a bad case of keeping up with the Joneses.
It's a shame because they've got so much potential for great storytelling but they just keep falling short because they're playing catch-up. They need to do their own thing instead of thinking in terms of how it compares to the MCU.
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kanekikun
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Post by kanekikun on Aug 20, 2018 11:52:48 GMT
if he could go back to save lois then he should be willing to go back and save anyone he could. as it is him using it only for lois is very selfish. not as selfish as everything he did in superman 2 though. That's the point. He was finally doing something for himself as anyone would in a similar situation.
yeah he was selfish in Superman 2 and then paid for it. So in that sense he couldnt be too selfish.
yeah but it breaks the lesson he learned. he do that for lois but no one else ?
superman ii was horrible. in the comics when he loses his powers he act least acts heroic and cool as clark but in the moive he really did become a loser
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