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Post by clusium on Aug 30, 2018 13:15:46 GMT
I still am not the one to make that kind of judgement call. Maybe you should ask the UN what the protocol is for world leaders who are involved in some type of coverup for a huge crime, such as pedophilia, rape, etc. I suppose that since Pope Benedict XVI chose to retire, rather than lead the Church, right up to his death (like St. John Paul II did), there could be a sort of precedent for a pope to resign, should he be caught in something as huge as covering up sexual abuse. Bill Clinton managed to serve as US president for 2 terms, despite being shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. People in grand positons of high power, tend to get immunity granted to them and it would also depend on the degree or scale of the allegations. Clinton's so called sexual harassment was with grown women and these child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Cult have been around for eons. Many incidents have been covered up and therefore, does this make all Popes gone before, responsible for what was happening within the church they were leading? How do you know these have been around for eons? For all you know, it could have been happening within the last hundred years or so.... |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 30, 2018 15:05:49 GMT
Okay, I only “skimmed” the link you gave (which is more attention to it than I generally would have given it otherwise, but you caught me in a good mood). I don’t need to read the whole thing to get the just of it. On the surface, I tend to agree — everyone should be “cautious” when rushing to condemn someone/something based solely on allegations. We agree to this point. My question for you is that IF it turns out that after extensive investigations (internal and external) there is enough evidence to conclude that the allegations are in fact true, should the Pope resign then? I still am not the one to make that kind of judgement call. Maybe you should ask the UN what the protocol is for world leaders who are involved in some type of coverup for a huge crime, such as pedophilia, rape, etc. Why? What does the UN have to do with determining who should be leading the Catholic Church? And why wouldn’t it be up to you to judge? You are a Catholic are you not? You are in fact a member of the Church body. The Pope is the representative leader of this body. So why would it not be up to you to judge those in your own church? Actually, I’m pretty sure it is your responsibility according to scripture. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”I suppose that since Pope Benedict XVI chose to retire, rather than lead the Church, right up to his death (like St. John Paul II did), there could be a sort of precedent for a pope to resign, should he be caught in something as huge as covering up sexual abuse. Okay. So then now that we have an established precedent, should the Pope resign if he is guilty? Bill Clinton managed to serve as US president for 2 terms, despite being shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. Well one, he was not shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. He was accused of sexual harassment — there’s a difference. And he was also accused of sexual harassment during a period in time when people didn’t take sexual harassment as seriously, and it was in fact normalized by society at large. Two, Bill Clinton was actually impeached for crimes related to sexual misconduct! Which makes my question more valid, not less. Three, Clarence Thomas has also been accused of sexual harassment in that same era; yet he is still sitting on the Supreme Court. And the current President Donald Trump has bragged about sexual assaulting women, and has been accused by many women of sexual assault and sexual harassment. And he is still the President! So perhaps we shouldn’t be comparing leadership within the church to politicians who have had a questionable sexual history. |
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Post by clusium on Aug 30, 2018 19:04:40 GMT
I still am not the one to make that kind of judgement call. Maybe you should ask the UN what the protocol is for world leaders who are involved in some type of coverup for a huge crime, such as pedophilia, rape, etc. Why? What does the UN have to do with determining who should be leading the Catholic Church? And why wouldn’t it be up to you to judge? You are a Catholic are you not? You are in fact a member of the Church body. The Pope is the representative leader of this body. So why would it not be up to you to judge those in your own church? Actually, I’m pretty sure it is your responsibility according to scripture. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”I suppose that since Pope Benedict XVI chose to retire, rather than lead the Church, right up to his death (like St. John Paul II did), there could be a sort of precedent for a pope to resign, should he be caught in something as huge as covering up sexual abuse. Okay. So then now that we have an established precedent, should the Pope resign if he is guilty? Bill Clinton managed to serve as US president for 2 terms, despite being shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. Well one, he was not shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. He was accused of sexual harassment — there’s a difference. And he was also accused of sexual harassment during a period in time when people didn’t take sexual harassment as seriously, and it was in fact normalized by society at large. Two, Bill Clinton was actually impeached for crimes related to sexual misconduct! Which makes my question more valid, not less. Three, Clarence Thomas has also been accused of sexual harassment in that same era; yet he is still sitting on the Supreme Court. And the current President Donald Trump has bragged about sexual assaulting women, and has been accused by many women of sexual assault and sexual harassment. And he is still the President! So perhaps we shouldn’t be comparing leadership within the church to politicians who have had a questionable sexual history. If, he's guilty, then yes, maybe he should resign. And for the record, it is the same example as Bill Clinton, because just as Bill Cinton was only accused of sexual harassment, so too, only Pope Francis is accused of shielding a pedophile. I still want to see how this goes, before making a judgement on whether or not Francis should remain. I told you, I do not have the sufficient knowledge on what should be done, regarding what is to be done with VIPS, in relation to accusations such as this. Not just because I am Catholic, but, because I am not an expert in that particular area ANYWAY. |
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Post by clusium on Aug 30, 2018 19:08:29 GMT
I still am not the one to make that kind of judgement call. Maybe you should ask the UN what the protocol is for world leaders who are involved in some type of coverup for a huge crime, such as pedophilia, rape, etc. Why? What does the UN have to do with determining who should be leading the Catholic Church? And why wouldn’t it be up to you to judge? You are a Catholic are you not? You are in fact a member of the Church body. The Pope is the representative leader of this body. So why would it not be up to you to judge those in your own church? Actually, I’m pretty sure it is your responsibility according to scripture. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”I suppose that since Pope Benedict XVI chose to retire, rather than lead the Church, right up to his death (like St. John Paul II did), there could be a sort of precedent for a pope to resign, should he be caught in something as huge as covering up sexual abuse. Okay. So then now that we have an established precedent, should the Pope resign if he is guilty? Bill Clinton managed to serve as US president for 2 terms, despite being shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. Well one, he was not shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. He was accused of sexual harassment — there’s a difference. And he was also accused of sexual harassment during a period in time when people didn’t take sexual harassment as seriously, and it was in fact normalized by society at large. Two, Bill Clinton was actually impeached for crimes related to sexual misconduct! Which makes my question more valid, not less. Three, Clarence Thomas has also been accused of sexual harassment in that same era; yet he is still sitting on the Supreme Court. And the current President Donald Trump has bragged about sexual assaulting women, and has been accused by many women of sexual assault and sexual harassment. And he is still the President! So perhaps we shouldn’t be comparing leadership within the church to politicians who have had a questionable sexual history. Here you go, CaptainBryce. Maybe these people might be better able to decide (Keep in mind, I have yet to look at the video myself). |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 30, 2018 19:26:43 GMT
Why? What does the UN have to do with determining who should be leading the Catholic Church? And why wouldn’t it be up to you to judge? You are a Catholic are you not? You are in fact a member of the Church body. The Pope is the representative leader of this body. So why would it not be up to you to judge those in your own church? Actually, I’m pretty sure it is your responsibility according to scripture. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”Okay. So then now that we have an established precedent, should the Pope resign if he is guilty? Well one, he was not shown to be a habitual sexual harasser. He was accused of sexual harassment — there’s a difference. And he was also accused of sexual harassment during a period in time when people didn’t take sexual harassment as seriously, and it was in fact normalized by society at large. Two, Bill Clinton was actually impeached for crimes related to sexual misconduct! Which makes my question more valid, not less. Three, Clarence Thomas has also been accused of sexual harassment in that same era; yet he is still sitting on the Supreme Court. And the current President Donald Trump has bragged about sexual assaulting women, and has been accused by many women of sexual assault and sexual harassment. And he is still the President! So perhaps we shouldn’t be comparing leadership within the church to politicians who have had a questionable sexual history. If, he's guilty, then yes, maybe he should resign. And for the record, it is the same example as Bill Clinton, because just as Bill Cinton was only accused of sexual harassment, so too, only Pope Francis is accused of shielding a pedophile. I still want to see how this goes, before making a judgement on whether or not Francis should remain. I told you, I do not have the sufficient knowledge on what should be done, regarding what is to be done with VIPS, in relation to accusations such as this. Not just because I am Catholic, but, because I am not an expert in that particular area ANYWAY.Fair enough. I have to commend you here, as this is one of the most honest answers that I’ve ever seen from you! There may be hope for you yet.  |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 30, 2018 19:28:57 GMT
clusiumWithout casting judgement based solely on accusations, don’t you think that if the Pope was guilty of this it invalidates to some extent the legitimacy of your religion?
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Post by clusium on Aug 30, 2018 22:13:10 GMT
If, he's guilty, then yes, maybe he should resign. And for the record, it is the same example as Bill Clinton, because just as Bill Cinton was only accused of sexual harassment, so too, only Pope Francis is accused of shielding a pedophile. I still want to see how this goes, before making a judgement on whether or not Francis should remain. I told you, I do not have the sufficient knowledge on what should be done, regarding what is to be done with VIPS, in relation to accusations such as this. Not just because I am Catholic, but, because I am not an expert in that particular area ANYWAY.Fair enough. I have to commend you here, as this is one of the most honest answers that I’ve ever seen from you! There may be hope for you yet. What do you mean one of the most honest answers you've seen from me??? What have you ever seen me lie about before???  |
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Post by clusium on Aug 30, 2018 22:13:57 GMT
clusium Without casting judgement based solely on accusations, don’t you think that if the Pope was guilty of this it invalidates to some extent the legitimacy of your religion? I think it would invalidate him as a person, not the religion itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 22:30:40 GMT
Why pick on Holly wood and not the Catholic church? |
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Post by clusium on Aug 30, 2018 22:38:01 GMT
How do you know these have been around for eons? For all you know, it could have been happening within the last hundred years or so.... Do you really believe that children have only recently been sexually abused by religious clergy in the past 100yrs? What is relevant though, is what is known about now. The status quo has and will always protect itself until it implodes upon itself. I do not necessarily believe one way or the other. I was commenting on your claim that it has been happening for eons. You don't know that!! |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 31, 2018 17:54:09 GMT
clusium Without casting judgement based solely on accusations, don’t you think that if the Pope was guilty of this it invalidates to some extent the legitimacy of your religion? I think it would invalidate him as a person, not the religion itself. But isn’t the Pope chosen under guidance from God? Isn’t that how the Cardinals decide who the next Pope will be? By voting based on how the Holy Spirit guides them? Why would the Holy Spirit guide the church to appoint a pedohile defender as the Pope? |
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Post by mrellaguru on Aug 31, 2018 18:24:58 GMT
People don't want to admit that the industry which makes the movies and television shows they love so much is run by a ring of pedophiles.
Any career that involves easy access to compliant children is going to attract pedophiles. I don't think that Hollywood is run by a ring of pedophiles though.
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Post by maya55555 on Aug 31, 2018 19:09:45 GMT
You know this by what means?
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Post by clusium on Aug 31, 2018 20:25:12 GMT
I think it would invalidate him as a person, not the religion itself. But isn’t the Pope chosen under guidance from God? Isn’t that how the Cardinals decide who the next Pope will be? By voting based on how the Holy Spirit guides them? Why would the Holy Spirit guide the church to appoint a pedohile defender as the Pope? Christ also Chose Judas Iscariot as an Apostle, even though He Knew that Iscariot was really evil. Papal Infallibility doesn't mean that the Pope is a sinless Christian. It means that what he teaches has no religious error. |
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Post by clusium on Aug 31, 2018 20:25:48 GMT
People don't want to admit that the industry which makes the movies and television shows they love so much is run by a ring of pedophiles.
Any career that involves easy access to compliant children is going to attract pedophiles. I don't think that Hollywood is run by a ring of pedophiles though.
Tell that to Corey Feldman. He says that there are. |
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