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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 0:22:04 GMT
Ace in terms of Starting pitchers in baseball and Elite in terms of Quarterbacks in the NFL.
It just annoys me when somebody calls their #1 starter an 'Ace' simply because he's their best one. The term shouldn't be just used to describe every teams #1 pitcher I don't think. In my mind there are about 10 legit Ace's in baseball.
1) Clayton Kershaw
2) Madison Bumgarner
3) Jacob DeGromb
4) Aaron Nola
5) Max Scherzer
6) Zach Grienke
7) Corey Kluber
8) Justin Verlander
9) Chris Sale
On the cusp:
Blake Snell
Luis Severino
Noah Syndergaard
Gerrit Cole
Patrick Corbin
In terms of 'Elite' Quarterbacks I simply think there are 3 and that's it. Elite is the best of the best. Those elite Quarterbacks are Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and that's it. Now you can be a Hall of Fame level QB in the NFL like a Ben Roethlisberger but not be considered 'elite' because flat out the 3 I listed are just superior players.
What does everybody else think?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 0:42:15 GMT
I don't think Ace is overused.
i'd put Hamels in there too.
I regard 'Ace' as the #1 pitcher - i.e. that starting rotations Top Dog even if that rotation/team may blow - i.e. he's the 'Ace' of the pitching staff - not necessarily the cream of the crop in the league. that's just me though.
I don't really believe 'Elite' is overused either - agree the 3 you mentioned are 'Elite' - i'd also throw Philip Rivers in there - can't stand him - and yes - Carson Wentz too - also Roethlisberger. one can make an argument for Wilson too.
now if we're talking 'Ace' and 'Elite' in 'history' and 'All-Time' I think we have a different argument - but if you're just going off of present - day - I think they should be considered the 'best of today' if any of that makes sense at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 0:44:38 GMT
Is elite really used that much for NFL QBs, outside the three you've named? I haven't come across it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 0:49:11 GMT
@screamingtreefrogs
I'm talking right now today in the sport. Cole Hamels used to be an Ace but I don't think he is right now. Even though he is having a good stint with the Cubs. Jon Lester used to be as well but I don't think he is anymore. For me I just think there is a difference between the term Ace and #1 Starting pitcher. But that's me.
With the Elite argument in the NFL. I personally don't think it expands past those 3. They're just the flat out superior players at the position. 3 of possibly the greatest of all time. Rivers is in a notch below same as Ben and Russ, they're very good star players, just not elite. Wentz has had 1 MVP caliber year same goes for a guy like Matt Ryan. Wentz I could see getting to that level one day. But I can't say he is elite when he's only been in the league for 2 years and only had 1 where he broke out. Let's see him be great for 3 more years before labeling him elite. When you expand the players you consider elite so much the word loses it's luster. The whole blow up when people were saying Flacco was elite simply because he won a super bowl. It's like saying Eli is elite because he has 2 despite never being considered one of the best at his position.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 0:50:33 GMT
Is elite really used that much for NFL QBs, outside the three you've named? I haven't come across it. Not so much lately but there was the whole thing of people saying Joe Flacco was elite after winning the super bowl. Which to me was always laughable. For some winning a super bowl is enough to be considered elite no matter how you got it or what else you've done around it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 2:02:09 GMT
Is elite really used that much for NFL QBs, outside the three you've named? I haven't come across it. Not so much lately but there was the whole thing of people saying Joe Flacco was elite after winning the super bowl. Which to me was always laughable. For some winning a super bowl is enough to be considered elite no matter how you got it or what else you've done around it. In that case, Trent Dilfer is elite as well, right? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 2:09:03 GMT
Not so much lately but there was the whole thing of people saying Joe Flacco was elite after winning the super bowl. Which to me was always laughable. For some winning a super bowl is enough to be considered elite no matter how you got it or what else you've done around it. In that case, Trent Dilfer is elite as well, right? Yup, as are any backup QB's that won rings too apparently. Hell Jimmy Garoppolo has 2 rings, he is even eliter than the elite. |
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Sept 22, 2018 5:08:11 GMT
Ace in terms of Starting pitchers in baseball and Elite in terms of Quarterbacks in the NFL. It just annoys me when somebody calls their #1 starter an 'Ace' simply because he's their best one. The term shouldn't be just used to describe every teams #1 pitcher I don't think. In my mind there are about 10 legit Ace's in baseball. 1) Clayton Kershaw 2) Madison Bumgarner 3) Jacob DeGromb 4) Aaron Nola 5) Max Scherzer 6) Zach Grienke 7) Corey Kluber 8) Justin Verlander 9) Chris Sale On the cusp: Blake Snell Luis Severino Noah Syndergaard Gerrit Cole Patrick Corbin In terms of 'Elite' Quarterbacks I simply think there are 3 and that's it. Elite is the best of the best. Those elite Quarterbacks are Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and that's it. Now you can be a Hall of Fame level QB in the NFL like a Ben Roethlisberger but not be considered 'elite' because flat out the 3 I listed are just superior players. What does everybody else think? Wade Miley |
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Sept 22, 2018 5:56:22 GMT
Elite, to me, is talking about high level players right now. Ace is talking about the best starter in a rotation.
Neither are talking about great, which is in an overused term IMO. I'd expect any HOFer to be an elite player in theur era. If not, they don't belong there.
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Post by NJtoTX on Sept 22, 2018 11:41:08 GMT
Elite is one of the words that get panelists a mute and docked a point on Around the Horn. Others are optics, narrative, problematic, and saying Mariotti instead of Mariota (Woody gets that one a lot).
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Post by twothousandonemark on Sept 22, 2018 13:45:37 GMT
I blame NFL Network's 8760 hours a year filler for the elite QB chatter. The worst is that essentially 1-3 guys a year are legit elite, & yet every f'n QB segment on tv 'Elite QB yay or nay?'
If you have more than 1 SB title, if you win 10+ games more often than not, if you put up huge numbers but the rest of your team doesn't help... you might be elite.
The only time I hear ace is around spring training when baseball heads are looking for something/anything to sound important. Fact is apart opening day of the season or a playoff round lined up in favour, an ace is nearly moot. Even most innings eaters to save a bullpen can be half washed up RA Dickeys of the world, & they're not aces.
To that point, I heard a nice 'how'd you fix MLB' podcast this summer... one way would be to cap pitching changes, thus making starters work longer, & thereby bringing back more attention & moxie to the starting pitchers of the game. Pitching matchups used to be like boxing marquees... now they're barely a thing.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Sept 22, 2018 13:50:19 GMT
Elite is one of the words that get panelists a mute and docked a point on Around the Horn. Others are optics, narrative, problematic, and saying Mariotti instead of Mariota (Woody gets that one a lot). Yep. Nowhere online with everyday chatter do I see/read about who is or not elite. The goat chatter picks up but thankfully usually only around big playoff/title games. |
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Post by NJtoTX on Sept 22, 2018 14:06:57 GMT
Elite is one of the words that get panelists a mute and docked a point on Around the Horn. Others are optics, narrative, problematic, and saying Mariotti instead of Mariota (Woody gets that one a lot). Yep. Nowhere online with everyday chatter do I see/read about who is or not elite. The goat chatter picks up but thankfully usually only around big playoff/title games. and yet, we're all categorized as Elite members here. |
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Nov 15, 2018 2:18:02 GMT
Ace is great.
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Post by millar70 on Nov 15, 2018 2:32:34 GMT
I like Chief. That one doesn't get used enough. |
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Nov 15, 2018 2:51:17 GMT
I like Chief. That one doesn't get used enough. Governor. |
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Post by millar70 on Nov 15, 2018 3:24:51 GMT
I like Chief. That one doesn't get used enough. Governor. That's a funny one, Chief! |
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Nov 15, 2018 11:07:16 GMT
That's a funny one, Chief! Cap |
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