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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 27, 2018 6:13:35 GMT
When he goes back into the hut to get the dragonglass, a White Walker kills the Thenn leader in one blow then goes about kicking Jon around only.
When I first saw this, I thought it was easy writing, contrived to make it last, build tension and give Jon a chance but I wonder if the Walker's purpose was to capture Jon instead of killing him.
After all, the Night King looked at him the same way Melissandre did. And we still don't know for sure what resurrected him.
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Post by Winter_King on Sept 27, 2018 9:08:42 GMT
I'm convinced that Jon was wearing plot armor.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 27, 2018 12:33:49 GMT
It's not quite that simple.
Jon was the better fighter than the Thenn and the fight was in such a way that if the Jon could be killed by a sword in a situation, he would have been.
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Post by Winter_King on Sept 27, 2018 14:08:17 GMT
It's not quite that simple. Jon was the better fighter than the Thenn and the fight was in such a way that if the Jon could be killed by a sword in a situation, he would have been. There are two scenes during that fight where the Walker could've easily killed Jon if he wasn't wearing plot armor. One is when the Walker grabs him and tosses him against the wall instead killing him right there. Another is that after the Walker shatters a sword he was using, the Walker uses the butt of the spear strike him instead of using the blade. Had this happened to another non important character, that character would've been killed. It was something that could've been fixed with a different choreography. Still Hardhome is one of the best episodes IMO. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 27, 2018 14:22:37 GMT
It's not quite that simple. Jon was the better fighter than the Thenn and the fight was in such a way that if the Jon could be killed by a sword in a situation, he would have been. There are two scenes during that fight where the Walker could've easily killed Jon if he wasn't wearing plot armor. One is when the Walker grabs him and tosses him against the wall instead killing him right there. Another is that after the Walker shatters a sword he was using, the Walker uses the butt of the spear strike him instead of using the blade. Had this happened to another non important character, that character would've been killed. It was something that could've been fixed with a different choreography. Still Hardhome is one of the best episodes IMO. Ill rewatch as I don’t recall anything outlandish and it’s aleays a pet peeve of mine for the story to create an action scene solely to create peril. Jaime surviving the dragon attack or Jon surviving after being left in the North are infuriating since there were better ways to write the scenes. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 27, 2018 16:17:49 GMT
There are two scenes during that fight where the Walker could've easily killed Jon if he wasn't wearing plot armor. One is when the Walker grabs him and tosses him against the wall instead killing him right there. Another is that after the Walker shatters a sword he was using, the Walker uses the butt of the spear strike him instead of using the blade. Had this happened to another non important character, that character would've been killed. It was something that could've been fixed with a different choreography. Which is why the question remains. The White Walker does not seem to want to kill Jon and the Night King is observing it. So instead of "plot armour" it might as well be plot. A survivor was intentionally left alive in the Prologue, a rest of the Night's Watch was left alive at the Fist of the First Men, Sam wasn't killed when he tried to protect Gilly's child and Jon wasn't killed at Hardhome. Actually, no man of the Night's Watch died at Hardhome. If Melisandre can see something in Jon, and that was made painfully obvious in S4 and S5, then the Night King probably can too. His purpose was never made clear. Those who think they understand it are those who support Daenerys or think Ned Stark was a good man. |
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Post by Winter_King on Sept 27, 2018 16:23:28 GMT
There are two scenes during that fight where the Walker could've easily killed Jon if he wasn't wearing plot armor. One is when the Walker grabs him and tosses him against the wall instead killing him right there. Another is that after the Walker shatters a sword he was using, the Walker uses the butt of the spear strike him instead of using the blade. Had this happened to another non important character, that character would've been killed. It was something that could've been fixed with a different choreography. Which is why the question remains. The White Walker does not seem to want to kill Jon and the Night King is observing it. So instead of "plot armour" it might as well be plot. A survivor was intentionally left alive in the Prologue, a rest of the Night's Watch was left alive at the Fist of the First Men, Sam wasn't killed when he tried to protect Gilly's child and Jon wasn't killed at Hardhome. Actually, no man of the Night's Watch died at Hardhome. If Melisandre can see something in Jon, and that was made painfully obvious in S4 and S5, then the Night King probably can too. His purpose was never made clear. Those who think they understand it are those who support Daenerys or think Ned Stark was a good man. Maybe, but I'm not convinced. Because for one I think the Walker does look like he wants to kill Jon Snow as he often tries to deliver fatal blows and Jon is forced to dodge and block with Longclaw. The show is not exactly stellar when it comes to fight choreography. There was that dreadful fight between Jaime and Brienne and the fight against the Sand Snakes as example. Also the examples I mentioned, particularly the one where Jon is grabbed and thrown against the wall is pretty similar in other movies and it's usually used to spare protagonists from what would've been a obvious death. This sort of thing happens in Terminator movies where the Terminator kills secondary characters easily but then drops the ball when it comes to killing the main characters. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 27, 2018 17:55:50 GMT
Maybe, but I'm not convinced. Because for one I think the Walker does look like he wants to kill Jon Snow as he often tries to deliver fatal blows and Jon is forced to dodge and block with Longclaw. The show is not exactly stellar when it comes to fight choreography. There was that dreadful fight between Jaime and Brienne and the fight against the Sand Snakes as example. Also the examples I mentioned, particularly the one where Jon is grabbed and thrown against the wall is pretty similar in other movies and it's usually used to spare protagonists from what would've been a obvious death. This sort of thing happens in Terminator movies where the Terminator kills secondary characters easily but then drops the ball when it comes to killing the main characters. You're probably right and it is just what I thought until I saw that scene again yesterday. I'm just trying to hope for a better alternative and for a twist to what everyone expects, which would not be a surprise. S8 will tell us. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Sept 27, 2018 19:05:47 GMT
When he goes back into the hut to get the dragonglass, a White Walker kills the Thenn leader in one blow then goes about kicking Jon around only. When I first saw this, I thought it was easy writing, contrived to make it last, build tension and give Jon a chance but I wonder if the Walker's purpose was to capture Jon instead of killing him. After all, the Night King looked at him the same way Melissandre did. And we still don't know for sure what resurrected him. thats the feeling i got to watching it , seems like in a way night king was admiring jons skills ...maybe they want him as their leader? there is a theme with jon he has stepped up the ladder slowly by befriending enemies like he did with the wildings getting them on their side making peace, maybe that is what WW wants? , OR could be night king is someone in the future jon knew well and doesnt want to hurt him like it has been rumored bran stark . |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 28, 2018 11:00:39 GMT
I just watched the scene.
It seems clear to me he was trying to kill him from the getgo.
The first time he is trying to get him away from the dragonglass (He seems to know its there and perhaps that is the reason he's down there to begin with.). Jon then takes a swing at him and he counters and while his spear thingy is down he uses the hilt to knock Jon across the room at which point Jon runs out of the building and finds his sword.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 28, 2018 16:28:24 GMT
I just watched the scene. It seems clear to me he was trying to kill him from the getgo. The first time he is trying to get him away from the dragonglass (He seems to know its there and perhaps that is the reason he's down there to begin with.). Jon then takes a swing at him and he counters and while his spear thingy is down he uses the hilt to knock Jon across the room at which point Jon runs out of the building and finds his sword. That's exactly what goes against all intention to kill. Jon's picked up a regular sword that shattered and could have been killed there. Instead of that, the Walker turned his spear around and hit him with the blunt side. Before that, Jon was scrambling for the dragonglass, his back to the While Walker who took him away from it instead of killing him, as he could have effortlessly. In the ensuing struggle, he throws Jon against the wall instead of using his spear. He must then parry Jon's sword and turns his spear around to hit him. Jon escapes the hut, retrieves Longclaw and the Walker goes at him with a circling hack instead of a thrust. His intention is to force Jon to parry again and shatter that sword to disarm him. He looks surprised when that doesn't happen. This White Walker never wanted to kill Jon, he was aiming at neutralising him only: |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 5, 2019 2:50:20 GMT
Update after the Battle of Winterfell in S8E03:
The Night King did not challenge Jon, he put obstacles in his way. He did not fight Daenerys either, he merely threw a spear at her and missed, as he already had in S7, even though he was able to hit another dragon further away. And when he got to Bran he just stood in front of him for a long time. This is either very contrived, cheap dramatic writing or we are missing something that has yet to be revealed.
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