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Post by Jep Gambardella on Sept 27, 2018 17:44:33 GMT
I was thinking about this after re-watching Hitchcock’s ‘Dial M for Murder’ recently. What are other examples of thriller and suspense movies where the fun is not in trying to figure out who committed the crime and why, but in seeing the investigation unfold and wondering if the culprit is going to get away with it (since we've been shown exactly what happened already)?
*** EDIT ***
The initial thread title was "Suspense movies where spectators know more than detective", but that didn't really convey what I meant, so I changed it.
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Post by kuatorises on Sept 27, 2018 18:00:23 GMT
All of them?
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Sept 27, 2018 18:13:02 GMT
What do you mean? In most suspense movies, we find out what is happening at the same time the on-screen detective does. A recent example is "Searching". We (the audience) don't know anything about what happened to the girl before we see the father finding out.
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Post by kuatorises on Sept 27, 2018 18:19:12 GMT
What do you mean? In most suspense movies, we find out what is happening at the same time the on-screen detective does. A recent example is "Searching". We (the audience) don't know anything about what happened to the girl before we see the father finding out.
You always know more than the protagonist. Even in The Bone Collector and Seven there are a few scenes from the killers POV.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Sept 27, 2018 18:36:18 GMT
What do you mean? In most suspense movies, we find out what is happening at the same time the on-screen detective does. A recent example is "Searching". We (the audience) don't know anything about what happened to the girl before we see the father finding out.
You always know more than the protagonist. Even in The Bone Collector and Seven there are a few scenes from the killers POV. Not always, but I am not going to argue. I am looking for examples where the audience knows pretty much everything, like in "Dial M for Murder". We see the husband planning the crime and we see the crime (which doesn't go according to plan), so the tension doesn't come from trying to figure out who the criminal is, but from seeing the detective doing it.
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Post by kolchak92 on Sept 27, 2018 18:49:16 GMT
I guess Psycho would qualify in a sense. We're always one step ahead of Arbogast and subsequently ahead of Sam and Lila.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Sept 27, 2018 18:53:02 GMT
I guess Psycho would qualify in a sense. We're always one step ahead of Arbogast and subsequently ahead of Sam and Lila. You are absolutely right, but as I tried to explain, I am looking for examples where the audience knows the entire solution of the mystery. I'd better change the thread title. In the case of Psycho, we think we know who the killer is, but actually we don't.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 27, 2018 19:41:19 GMT
Talented Mr. Ripley Match Point Rope
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 1:58:01 GMT
Every episode of Columbo.
Except I have this nagging thought that there was one episode where the murderer's identity is not revealed until the end.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 28, 2018 2:03:16 GMT
Silence of the Lambs
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 28, 2018 2:05:08 GMT
Every episode of Columbo. Except I have this nagging thought that there was one episode where the murderer's identity is not revealed until the end. More than one, actually:
“Last Salute to the Commodore”
“Double Shock”
And one more where we know the murderer from the beginning, as usual, but the whole plot is different from how we’d originally assumed: “Columbo Cries Wolf.”
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 28, 2018 3:05:30 GMT
RATZ ... I was going to be the brilliant one who posted about Columbo ! Foiled again ! So having gone back to the drawing board … ROPE perhaps ? Jep Gambardella WE know who dunnit and why but will they get away with it ?
Edit .. I read thru too fast the first time and see that Rope was already suggested … argh !
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 28, 2018 4:20:37 GMT
Jaws. We know from the start it is in fact a shark and neither a boat nor Jack the Ripper.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Sept 28, 2018 14:34:35 GMT
Talented Mr. Ripley Match Point Rope Thanks. Those are great examples of exactly what I was looking for.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Sept 28, 2018 14:43:28 GMT
Every episode of Columbo. Except I have this nagging thought that there was one episode where the murderer's identity is not revealed until the end. I never watched "Columbo".
“Monk” was a little bit like that too – in most (if not all) episodes, the plot revolved around Monk trying to find out the how, not the who, which he always knew.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 28, 2018 15:26:33 GMT
Jep Gambardella Interestingly enough, the mystery plot in which we know the killer from the beginning and the interest is how he’ll be caught is fairly common in detective-stories; the modern iteration of it was invented by a writer named R. Austin Freeman in a collection called The Singing Bone. It’s sometimes called “the inverted detective story” and, more often, the “howatchem” (after “whodunit”). The format was adopted by Freeman’s chief literary disciple, the similarly-named Freeman Wills Crofts, who used it in many novels. (His work is a major influence on Columbo.) It didn’t really catch on all that much during the ‘30s and ‘40s, detective fiction’s “golden age,” though, largely because of the whodunit puzzle-plot from Christie and Carr, inter alia. I think I’d distinguish the howatchem proper from psychological suspense, which appears in something Malice Aforethought, by “Francis Iles” (pen name of mystery-writer Anthony Berkeley Cox). In both sub-genres, you know the killer from the beginning, but the latter is concerned with his character and motivation, while the former is concerned with how he’ll be caught. (Of course, some works— Dial ‘M’ for Murder being a prime example—intermingle the two.) Some of them are halfway between the howatchem and the whodunit, too: have you seen Fracture (2007)? Great movie—you know Hopkins is the killer from the beginning, but you don’t know how, and you have to follow ADA Ryan Gosling as he tries to prove Hopkins guilty. It’d probably fit this category. Many Hitchcocks work this way (cf. his famous surprise-suspense dichotomy). One I rarely see mentioned is Vertigo, because you don’t know the solution from the beginning, but you definitely know it before Jimmy Stewart does. And watch Columbo! It’s great. You’ll probably love it if you liked Monk.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 28, 2018 15:32:27 GMT
Would M (1931) count? You know the killer from the beginning, though it’s more a portrait of psychological obsession.
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