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Post by brownstones on Mar 26, 2017 18:17:12 GMT
Mechanical. If it's organic, it's something that happened to Peter. If it's mechanical, is something he accomplished. exactly, while organic is pretty cool, the mechanical webshooters show us Peter's high intelligence and engineering skills.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 26, 2017 18:17:20 GMT
Mechanical. If it's organic, it's something that happened to Peter. If it's mechanical, is something he accomplished. He can accomplish lots of other things.
Make it something that happened to him.
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Post by filmfan95 on Mar 26, 2017 18:19:02 GMT
One of the arguments that I used to use in support of mechanical shooters was that Peter could make different kinds of web to fight different enemies. Such as if he was fighting Electro or Shocker he could make a shock-proof webbing. But then someone pointed out to me that if an adaptation that used organic web wanted to do something like that, they could just have Peter invent pills that he could consume in order to change the way his web worked. So I no longer use that argument.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 26, 2017 19:32:17 GMT
So why is there a need for him to have organic webshooters then? You guys are trying to go scientific with him gaining all of a spider's abilities, but want to cut it short when it comes to the problems that come with that. You're the one trying to go all scientific with it, not me. I just said I prefer the idea that the shooters are linked to the spider bite, and not him just being smart.
Besides you don't have a big pouch for tears or saliva or sweat, and yet you can make those constantly. If you have a real objection, fine, but don't make stuff up and then complain about it.
Yes, but I'm not constantly shooting tears, sweat or saliva. You can spit, but you have to collect saliva in your mouth first. And yes you can cry tears, but you can't continuously do it before you dry out. That liquid is coming from somewhere. He wouldn't have webbing coursing through his entire body to supply him to shoot constantly without stopping. And yes you are trying to go scientific with saying that he should be able to create webbing because a spider can do it and should get all the abilities that a spider has. He shouldn't.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 26, 2017 19:37:28 GMT
You're the one trying to go all scientific with it, not me. I just said I prefer the idea that the shooters are linked to the spider bite, and not him just being smart.
Besides you don't have a big pouch for tears or saliva or sweat, and yet you can make those constantly. If you have a real objection, fine, but don't make stuff up and then complain about it.
Yes, but I'm not constantly shooting tears, sweat or saliva. You can spit, but you have to collect saliva in your mouth first. And yes you can cry tears, but you can't continuously do it before you dry out. That liquid is coming from somewhere. He wouldn't have webbing coursing through his entire body to supply him to shoot constantly without stopping. And yes you are trying to go scientific with saying that he should be able to create webbing because a spider can do it and should get all the abilities that a spider has. He shouldn't. Again, you're the one going scientific here by saying a man who can lift tons can't produce enough webbing, and as though constantly shooting mechanical shooters makes any more sense.
All I'm saying is very simple. If the spider bite is important, then just use it for all of his powers. Otherwise, why doesn't he just use his smarts to build boots and gloves that cling to walls and jump boosters. Why have the spider bite at all?
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 26, 2017 19:54:06 GMT
Yes, but I'm not constantly shooting tears, sweat or saliva. You can spit, but you have to collect saliva in your mouth first. And yes you can cry tears, but you can't continuously do it before you dry out. That liquid is coming from somewhere. He wouldn't have webbing coursing through his entire body to supply him to shoot constantly without stopping. And yes you are trying to go scientific with saying that he should be able to create webbing because a spider can do it and should get all the abilities that a spider has. He shouldn't. Again, you're the one going scientific here by saying a man who can lift tons can't produce enough webbing, and as though constantly shooting mechanical shooters makes any more sense.
All I'm saying is very simple. If the spider bite is important, then just use it for all of his powers. Otherwise, why doesn't he just use his smarts to build boots and gloves that cling to walls and jump boosters. Why have the spider bite at all?
You mean like the explanation that it expands when the web fluid touches oxygen? That's why so much webbing can fit into those small cartridges? Because the spider rewrote his mentality so he now knows how to create the webbing. Like his want to find dark places to hide (also has the ability to blend into them). You see, he's suppose to be the only person that knows how to create the formula to make the webbing. His being smart in science helps with that. A person that doesn't know chemistry still wouldn't know what chemicals to use to make the fluid even with the instinct to do so. Also, there was a "What if...?" comic that had Flash get bitten and became a villain. Peter created an exosuit to fight him and he still became Spider-man with that tech. You see, it's not about him just being smart enough to do it, he has to have a want and need to do it also.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 26, 2017 20:14:32 GMT
Again, you're the one going scientific here by saying a man who can lift tons can't produce enough webbing, and as though constantly shooting mechanical shooters makes any more sense.
All I'm saying is very simple. If the spider bite is important, then just use it for all of his powers. Otherwise, why doesn't he just use his smarts to build boots and gloves that cling to walls and jump boosters. Why have the spider bite at all?
You mean like the explanation that it expands when the web fluid touches oxygen? That's why so much webbing can fit into those small cartridges? Because the spider rewrote his mentality so he now knows how to create the webbing. Like his want to find dark places to hide (also has the ability to blend into them). You see, he's suppose to be the only person that knows how to create the formula to make the webbing. His being smart in science helps with that. A person that doesn't know chemistry still wouldn't know what chemicals to use to make the fluid even with the instinct to do so. Also, there was a "What if...?" comic that had Flash get bitten and became a villain. Peter created an exosuit to fight him and he still became Spider-man with that tech. You see, it's not about him just being smart enough to do it, he has to have a want and need to do it also. Again, this doesn't sway me, and again you're the one getting sciencey about it with the expands when it touches oxygen stuff. I'm just going with the tie between the power and the bite is a stronger tie than just saying "oh it's because he's smart" which you could do in a 100 different ways.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 26, 2017 20:28:34 GMT
You mean like the explanation that it expands when the web fluid touches oxygen? That's why so much webbing can fit into those small cartridges? Because the spider rewrote his mentality so he now knows how to create the webbing. Like his want to find dark places to hide (also has the ability to blend into them). You see, he's suppose to be the only person that knows how to create the formula to make the webbing. His being smart in science helps with that. A person that doesn't know chemistry still wouldn't know what chemicals to use to make the fluid even with the instinct to do so. Also, there was a "What if...?" comic that had Flash get bitten and became a villain. Peter created an exosuit to fight him and he still became Spider-man with that tech. You see, it's not about him just being smart enough to do it, he has to have a want and need to do it also. Again, this doesn't sway me, and again you're the one getting sciencey about it with the expands when it touches oxygen stuff. I'm just going with the tie between the power and the bite is a stronger tie than just saying "oh it's because he's smart" which you could do in a 100 different ways. But all the explanations is a part of the character. Having organic webbing isn't a part of the character. You are trying to find an explanation through science to find a way out of the explanation already given that makes perfect sense. And it's not just "because he's smart." His power gives him the ability to create the formula to make it. Also, if he makes it organically, how can he change the formula? There are lots of instances that he changes the formula to defeat a villain. Make it stronger or poisoned or water based. When it is organic it is stagnant and will never change. What is he going to do to change it, drink pineapple juice?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 26, 2017 20:31:06 GMT
Again, this doesn't sway me, and again you're the one getting sciencey about it with the expands when it touches oxygen stuff. I'm just going with the tie between the power and the bite is a stronger tie than just saying "oh it's because he's smart" which you could do in a 100 different ways. But all the explanations is a part of the character. Having organic webbing isn't a part of the character. You are trying to find an explanation through science to find a way out of the explanation already given that makes perfect sense. And it's not just "because he's smart." His power gives him the ability to create the formula to make it. Also, if he makes it organically, how can he change the formula? There are lots of instances that he changes the formula to defeat a villain. Make it stronger or poisoned or water based. When it is organic it is stagnant and will never change. What is he going to do to change it, drink pineapple juice? I don't see how organic can't be a part of his character. It changes nothing really. I mean how can he change the nature of it? Sure, have him add in wrist attachments that effect the webbing. Now that's a good use of the wrist attachments. Great thinking.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 26, 2017 20:36:17 GMT
But all the explanations is a part of the character. Having organic webbing isn't a part of the character. You are trying to find an explanation through science to find a way out of the explanation already given that makes perfect sense. And it's not just "because he's smart." His power gives him the ability to create the formula to make it. Also, if he makes it organically, how can he change the formula? There are lots of instances that he changes the formula to defeat a villain. Make it stronger or poisoned or water based. When it is organic it is stagnant and will never change. What is he going to do to change it, drink pineapple juice? I don't see how organic can't be a part of his character. It changes nothing really. I mean how can he change the nature of it? Sure, have him add in wrist attachments that effect the webbing. Now that's a good use of the wrist attachments. Great thinking. But adding wrist attachments won't change what is in the webbing. And each time he puts them on he has to put the spinnerettes in like a condom. Something he didn't have even in the Raimi movies. It was more like a burn spot.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 26, 2017 20:48:41 GMT
I don't see how organic can't be a part of his character. It changes nothing really. I mean how can he change the nature of it? Sure, have him add in wrist attachments that effect the webbing. Now that's a good use of the wrist attachments. Great thinking. But adding wrist attachments won't change what is in the webbing. And each time he puts them on he has to put the spinnerettes in like a condom. Something he didn't have even in the Raimi movies. It was more like a burn spot. I honestly don't care if he ever changes his webbing, and they could make it work anyway, so I don't see why it matters.
I'm all for organic. I want him to be more spiderlike. This whole he can't change his webbing stuff doesn't override that.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 26, 2017 21:23:44 GMT
But adding wrist attachments won't change what is in the webbing. And each time he puts them on he has to put the spinnerettes in like a condom. Something he didn't have even in the Raimi movies. It was more like a burn spot. I honestly don't care if he ever changes his webbing, and they could make it work anyway, so I don't see why it matters.
I'm all for organic. I want him to be more spiderlike. This whole he can't change his webbing stuff doesn't override that.
More story opportunities. Think of the scene of Peter trying to fix his webshooters to not break when electrocuted by Electro. For one, he wouldn't be able to do that with organic webshooters because he'd be dead. Two, we wouldn't get science Peter scenes like that. All the science Peter scenes would be crap like in Spider-man 2. Stuff he wouldn't use as Spider-man. And him having organic webshooters wouldn't make him more spider-like. Turning him into Man-Spider would make him more spider-like.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 26, 2017 21:47:38 GMT
I honestly don't care if he ever changes his webbing, and they could make it work anyway, so I don't see why it matters.
I'm all for organic. I want him to be more spiderlike. This whole he can't change his webbing stuff doesn't override that.
More story opportunities. Think of the scene of Peter trying to fix his webshooters to not break when electrocuted by Electro. For one, he wouldn't be able to do that with organic webshooters because he'd be dead. Two, we wouldn't get science Peter scenes like that. All the science Peter scenes would be crap like in Spider-man 2. Stuff he wouldn't use as Spider-man. And him having organic webshooters wouldn't make him more spider-like. Turning him into Man-Spider would make him more spider-like. There are plenty of story opportunities without that. I'd still like the bite to be the source of all power.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 22:09:22 GMT
I remember way back when I was about 5 years old, and Spidey was very spider-like for a while in the comics. It was put into the cartoons later on. I do wonder if this has ever been thought of adapting to the big screen:
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Post by filmfan95 on Mar 27, 2017 1:07:22 GMT
I remember way back when I was about 5 years old, and Spidey was very spider-like for a while in the comics. It was put into the cartoons later on. I do wonder if this has ever been thought of adapting to the big screen: That was the "Six Arm Saga" from Amazing Spider-Man issues #100-102. It was also the first appearance of Morbius, the living vampire. And it was adapted into the 90's animated series (I so wish they would release the whole series on DVD) as the "Neogenic Nightmare" in season 2. The biggest difference was, in the comics he just grew the four extra arms and then got rid of them a few days later. But in the animated series, not only did he grow four extra arms, but he later mutate further into a spider monster.
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Post by filmfan95 on Mar 27, 2017 1:09:45 GMT
Again, this doesn't sway me, and again you're the one getting sciencey about it with the expands when it touches oxygen stuff. I'm just going with the tie between the power and the bite is a stronger tie than just saying "oh it's because he's smart" which you could do in a 100 different ways. But all the explanations is a part of the character. Having organic webbing isn't a part of the character. You are trying to find an explanation through science to find a way out of the explanation already given that makes perfect sense. And it's not just "because he's smart." His power gives him the ability to create the formula to make it. Also, if he makes it organically, how can he change the formula? There are lots of instances that he changes the formula to defeat a villain. Make it stronger or poisoned or water based. When it is organic it is stagnant and will never change. What is he going to do to change it, drink pineapple juice? I already said that an adaptation that used organic web but still wanted Peter to have different kinds of web could have Peter invent pills that he could consume in order to change his webbing. It's unlikely that someone will think of that, but it's still a good idea.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 27, 2017 14:57:50 GMT
But all the explanations is a part of the character. Having organic webbing isn't a part of the character. You are trying to find an explanation through science to find a way out of the explanation already given that makes perfect sense. And it's not just "because he's smart." His power gives him the ability to create the formula to make it. Also, if he makes it organically, how can he change the formula? There are lots of instances that he changes the formula to defeat a villain. Make it stronger or poisoned or water based. When it is organic it is stagnant and will never change. What is he going to do to change it, drink pineapple juice? I already said that an adaptation that used organic web but still wanted Peter to have different kinds of web could have Peter invent pills that he could consume in order to change his webbing. It's unlikely that someone will think of that, but it's still a good idea. But do you really think they would have Spider-man popping pills to change his webbing? What kind of message would that send? Now you'd have to do stories about him being a drug addict.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 27, 2017 16:06:12 GMT
Mechanical. If it's organic, it's something that happened to Peter. If it's mechanical, is something he accomplished. Exactly. That was problem with the original Spiderman movies. Everyone talked about how smart Peter was (even winning the science award), yet he didn't do anything that showed what a scientific genius he was. Designing his web-shooters is a short hand way of actually having the character do something that reflects his genius. Remember: Show, don't tell.
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Post by filmfan95 on Mar 27, 2017 18:00:34 GMT
Mechanical. If it's organic, it's something that happened to Peter. If it's mechanical, is something he accomplished. Exactly. That was problem with the original Spiderman movies. Everyone talked about how smart Peter was (even winning the science award), yet he didn't do anything that showed what a scientific genius he was. Designing his web-shooters is a short hand way of actually having the character do something that reflects his genius. Remember: Show, don't tell. Several of the early storylines from the comics would also be awfully boring if he had organic web. For instance, in just the second issue, the Vulture throws Spidey into a water tank, and Spidey realizes that he can't get out because the walls are too slippery and he's run out of web fluid. He sits there for a few minutes thinking that he's met his end, but then realizes that with his strength he can duck under the water and propel himself up far enough that the force of the water will push him up far enough to get out of the tank. He goes home and invents his classic spider-belt that holds extra web cartridges and the spider-signal light. Now, imagine if he'd had organic web during this scene. He'd get thrown into the tank, and then he'd just get out of it by shooting a web line. That's just boring. In the comics, Spidey is still quite arrogant this early on, thinking that he's strong and talanted enough to outwit every enemy that he comes across. But then he actually fails, and he learns something from it. He learns to pack extra web fluid for in case he's in a similar situation, and he learns not to underestimate his enemies. If he had been given organic web from the start of his comic book run, this powerful moment would never have happened. The reason I believe that the Steve Ditko run of Spider-Man was the best was because it actually showed a lot of character development. There were many lessons that Spider-Man had to learn along the way, and he learned to become the hero he was small step by small step. It wasn't just an instant turn to being a superhero after his uncle died. He had to learn the right path. It was what gave Spider-Man a lot of meaning to so many fans.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 28, 2017 14:45:48 GMT
Mechanical. If it's organic, it's something that happened to Peter. If it's mechanical, is something he accomplished. Exactly. That was problem with the original Spiderman movies. Everyone talked about how smart Peter was (even winning the science award), yet he didn't do anything that showed what a scientific genius he was. Designing his web-shooters is a short hand way of actually having the character do something that reflects his genius. Remember: Show, don't tell. I think the only time they did showcase how smart, scientifically, he was was when he was talking with Otto Octavius at dinner. Everything else was something a superhero would do anyway.
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