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Post by hi224 on Nov 2, 2018 18:57:36 GMT
how did you interpret it as well.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 2, 2018 19:16:29 GMT
When he ran on the blades, I was shocked!
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Post by hi224 on Nov 7, 2018 7:14:29 GMT
Which version? The sequel was excellent, but tried to give it too much grounding by the end, rather than leave it ambiguous as well. both?.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 7, 2018 20:05:46 GMT
I prefer the Director's Cut/Final Cut ending over the original theatrical ending. That forced 'happy ending' the studio wanted in the original cut just doesn't fit the film at all. People obsess over whether Deckard is a replicant when in truth it doesn't matter. Whatever he may be, Deckard learned a hard lesson in what it is to be 'human.'
Another question frequently asked is why Roy saves Deckard. I think it's clear it wasn't a spur of the moment decision. Watch the entire sequence again, from the moment he finds Pris dead. From that point on, Roy was never going to kill Deckard. There just wasn't any point. They came to Earth to extend their lives. He knows he can't and now his friends are all dead. Killing Deckard solves nothing, but one thing he can do is show Deckard the error of his (and humanity's) ways regarding replicants.
"Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." Roy isn't just talking about Deckard's current position on the ledge, he's talking about the entire chase throughout the building. That's what it is to be afraid for your life; to simply try to exist while worrying about your inevitable doom as it creeps closer and closer. Nobody lives forever, but Replicants know the end is nigh better than anyone. All they wanted was a chance to enjoy the wonders of the life they were granted as much as anyone else. They became killers and criminals because their creators gave them no other choice. For the rest of his days, Deckard has to live with the fact that he hunted down and killed sentient beings whose only crime was wanting the life of freedom so many of us take for granted.
The DC/Final Cut is the superior ending not because it all but confirms Deckard himself is a replicant, but because you don't know the consequences of his actions. Does he get the happy ending? Will he and/or Rachel simply expire or will the police execute them as fugitive replicants? Regardless of his true identity, how is he better than the replicants he 'retired?' There's no voice over to lead the audience through any of the ambiguity in these versions of the film. Good sci-fi should leave you asking questions, and Blade Runner gives you plenty to chew on.
This is why I was deeply disappointed by 2049. The entire exercise was unnecessary. I didn't want to know what happened next with these characters. The story was half-assed and Leto's cartoon villain didn't even have a sensible motivation. It was visually impressive as far as cinematography but the set design was often generic futuristic fare, which also went against everything we saw in the original. Why is everything so clean, new and organized in 2049 when everything was falling apart 30 years earlier? What happened in Vegas, and how long ago did it happen-- because Vegas is pristine while Los Angeles in 2019 was an absolute dumpster fire. The character of K is intriguing, but his death(?) scene doesn't carry half the spiritual weight of Roy's; so why give him the Tears In Rain music? It's not a terrible film, it's just not a particularly good one. It's the sequel that wanted to be a remake, and was equal parts reverent of and intimidated by the original film's legacy. A considerable amount of effort was clearly put into the crafting of this film with the exception of the writing of the script. It's a soulless facsimile; a Replicant some might say.
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Post by vegalyra on Nov 7, 2018 20:25:13 GMT
I for one love both films but I'm also the person that likes the original theatrical "happy" ending so take my opinion for whatever it's worth. I liked the Harrison Ford narration of the original theatrical version as well, both anathema to many BR fans.
2049 was a great follow up. I haven't been so engrossed in a film in a long time. I saw it in the theater on a big screen so maybe that had something to do with it, the visuals were stunning. Maybe it was spiritually trying to be a remake rather than a sequel but I thought the continuity was well done. It might be a film where style took precedent over substance but it sure was a beautiful film in my opinion.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Nov 7, 2018 21:15:07 GMT
how did you interpret it as well. This is what I maintain:
If you mean the original theatrical version then Rick Deckard is not a replicant, and the death of Batty is all the more poignant because as Deckard narrates "at the end he loved life so much" he even saved Deckards life.
If you mean the Directors Final Cut then Deckard IS a Replicant because there's no way Edward James Olmos character Gaff could have known to leave an origami of a unicorn for Deckard to find; which serves two purposes: If Gaff knows about the unicorn it means that he had access to Deckards memories or dreams. There's no way he could do that unless Deckard was a replicant. It also is a way for Gaff to show Deckard that he wont hunt him.
If you mean Blade Runner 2049, then K/Joe dies (as evidenced by the use of the same music used in Roys death in the original), and Deckard goes back into hiding after meeting his daughter, since they'll both still be hunted.
I think they're both great movies in different ways. I wish either of them hadn't flopped so that we could see a trilogy. But alas...
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Post by hi224 on Nov 7, 2018 21:30:51 GMT
I prefer the Director's Cut/Final Cut ending over the original theatrical ending. That forced 'happy ending' the studio wanted in the original cut just doesn't fit the film at all. People obsess over whether Deckard is a replicant when in truth it doesn't matter. Whatever he may be, Deckard learned a hard lesson in what it is to be 'human.' Another question frequently asked is why Roy saves Deckard. I think it's clear it wasn't a spur of the moment decision. Watch the entire sequence again, from the moment he finds Pris dead. From that point on, Roy was never going to kill Deckard. There just wasn't any point. They came to Earth to extend their lives. He knows he can't and now his friends are all dead. Killing Deckard solves nothing, but one thing he can do is show Deckard the error of his (and humanity's) ways regarding replicants. "Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." Roy isn't just talking about Deckard's current position on the ledge, he's talking about the entire chase throughout the building. That's what it is to be afraid for your life; to simply try to exist while worrying about your inevitable doom as it creeps closer and closer. Nobody lives forever, but Replicants know the end is nigh better than anyone. All they wanted was a chance to enjoy the wonders of the life they were granted as much as anyone else. They became killers and criminals because their creators gave them no other choice. For the rest of his days, Deckard has to live with the fact that he hunted down and killed sentient beings whose only crime was wanting the life of freedom so many of us take for granted. The DC/Final Cut is the superior ending not because it all but confirms Deckard himself is a replicant, but because you don't know the consequences of his actions. Does he get the happy ending? Will he and/or Rachel simply expire or will the police execute them as fugitive replicants? Regardless of his true identity, how is he better than the replicants he 'retired?' There's no voice over to lead the audience through any of the ambiguity in these versions of the film. Good sci-fi should leave you asking questions, and Blade Runner gives you plenty to chew on. This is why I was deeply disappointed by 2049. The entire exercise was unnecessary. I didn't want to know what happened next with these characters. The story was half-assed and Leto's cartoon villain didn't even have a sensible motivation. It was visually impressive as far as cinematography but the set design was often generic futuristic fare, which also went against everything we saw in the original. Why is everything so clean, new and organized in 2049 when everything was falling apart 30 years earlier? What happened in Vegas, and how long ago did it happen-- because Vegas is pristine while Los Angeles in 2019 was an absolute dumpster fire. The character of K is intriguing, but his death(?) scene doesn't carry half the spiritual weight of Roy's; so why give him the Tears In Rain music? It's not a terrible film, it's just not a particularly good one. It's the sequel that wanted to be a remake, and was equal parts reverent of and intimidated by the original film's legacy. A considerable amount of effort was clearly put into the crafting of this film with the exception of the writing of the script. It's a soulless facsimile; a Replicant some might say. I saw K and Batty as parallels, hence him getting the Tears in the Rain music as well. both find their humanity by saving Deckard as well.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 8, 2018 13:05:31 GMT
I prefer the Director's Cut/Final Cut ending over the original theatrical ending. That forced 'happy ending' the studio wanted in the original cut just doesn't fit the film at all. People obsess over whether Deckard is a replicant when in truth it doesn't matter. Whatever he may be, Deckard learned a hard lesson in what it is to be 'human.' Another question frequently asked is why Roy saves Deckard. I think it's clear it wasn't a spur of the moment decision. Watch the entire sequence again, from the moment he finds Pris dead. From that point on, Roy was never going to kill Deckard. There just wasn't any point. They came to Earth to extend their lives. He knows he can't and now his friends are all dead. Killing Deckard solves nothing, but one thing he can do is show Deckard the error of his (and humanity's) ways regarding replicants. "Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." Roy isn't just talking about Deckard's current position on the ledge, he's talking about the entire chase throughout the building. That's what it is to be afraid for your life; to simply try to exist while worrying about your inevitable doom as it creeps closer and closer. Nobody lives forever, but Replicants know the end is nigh better than anyone. All they wanted was a chance to enjoy the wonders of the life they were granted as much as anyone else. They became killers and criminals because their creators gave them no other choice. For the rest of his days, Deckard has to live with the fact that he hunted down and killed sentient beings whose only crime was wanting the life of freedom so many of us take for granted. The DC/Final Cut is the superior ending not because it all but confirms Deckard himself is a replicant, but because you don't know the consequences of his actions. Does he get the happy ending? Will he and/or Rachel simply expire or will the police execute them as fugitive replicants? Regardless of his true identity, how is he better than the replicants he 'retired?' There's no voice over to lead the audience through any of the ambiguity in these versions of the film. Good sci-fi should leave you asking questions, and Blade Runner gives you plenty to chew on. This is why I was deeply disappointed by 2049. The entire exercise was unnecessary. I didn't want to know what happened next with these characters. The story was half-assed and Leto's cartoon villain didn't even have a sensible motivation. It was visually impressive as far as cinematography but the set design was often generic futuristic fare, which also went against everything we saw in the original. Why is everything so clean, new and organized in 2049 when everything was falling apart 30 years earlier? What happened in Vegas, and how long ago did it happen-- because Vegas is pristine while Los Angeles in 2019 was an absolute dumpster fire. The character of K is intriguing, but his death(?) scene doesn't carry half the spiritual weight of Roy's; so why give him the Tears In Rain music? It's not a terrible film, it's just not a particularly good one. It's the sequel that wanted to be a remake, and was equal parts reverent of and intimidated by the original film's legacy. A considerable amount of effort was clearly put into the crafting of this film with the exception of the writing of the script. It's a soulless facsimile; a Replicant some might say. I saw K and Batty as parallels, hence him getting the Tears in the Rain music as well. both find their humanity by saving Deckard as well. K seemed more like a weird hybrid stand in for both Roy and Deckard. There just wasn't enough of a spiritual journey for me to care about his fate by the end. K seemed arguably more in touch with his humanity than either of them, right from the beginning. I've tried watching it again on tv since I saw it in theaters, hoping it would get better on rewatch. It actually got worse, because the things that bothered me about the film only bothered me that much more, the more I thought about them. It was a flawed endeavor from the start. They tried to recapture the magic of the original, almost beat for beat in terms of storytelling and ambiance. Ultimately it came across like a bad knock off of the original. It truly felt like a remake pretending to be a sequel. There are things I appreciate about 2049. The score is incredible. The performances, outside of Leto's over the top villain, are solid. The problem is the story makes no sense and the subplots it introduces (solely to set up sequels or spinoffs) are completely uninteresting. I can still watch Blade Runner while ignoring the existence of this film, I just wish I didn't have to.
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