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Post by Skaathar on Nov 6, 2018 1:21:43 GMT
Whedon is probably the only reason JL didn't suck as badly as bvs. To me JL is far worse than BvS because of Whedon. To each his own. To me (and apparently for majority of critics) JL was one big meh whereas BvS was just terrible. And I'm pretty sure the only reason it wasn't as bad as BvS was due to Whedon.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Nov 9, 2018 0:22:52 GMT
nah, Snyder is the man who gave us Watchmen & Co. We really would have to see the Snyder version to seriously assess it. But as it stands, Whedon messed it up, he gave us moustache-gate, badly-lit and blocked scenes (in contrast to Snyder's trademark brilliant cinematography) and these atrocities: In the end, it's not so much Josh " let's play hide the zucchini" Whedon's fault but mostly WB's. Whedon was just the wrong man at the wrong time; good for them that they realized it before he could ruin Batgirl. Just like they should with Pedo-Gunn, Feige's foulest fallen fruit. Ultimately it's about the old ideological conflict: The MCU fans love about JL just what DC fans hate about it: Uninspired, forced humor, clobber porn galore, shoddy cinematography, family friendly tone, formula-over-substance etc. If Snyder's Watchman is really the high bar for you, then you really need to watch more films. Or at least read the comic. It's like philosophy vs a dude in a gym quoting philosophy.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 9, 2018 4:13:22 GMT
nah, Snyder is the man who gave us Watchmen & Co. We really would have to see the Snyder version to seriously assess it. But as it stands, Whedon messed it up, he gave us moustache-gate, badly-lit and blocked scenes (in contrast to Snyder's trademark brilliant cinematography) and these atrocities: In the end, it's not so much Josh " let's play hide the zucchini" Whedon's fault but mostly WB's. Whedon was just the wrong man at the wrong time; good for them that they realized it before he could ruin Batgirl. Just like they should with Pedo-Gunn, Feige's foulest fallen fruit. Ultimately it's about the old ideological conflict: The MCU fans love about JL just what DC fans hate about it: Uninspired, forced humor, clobber porn galore, shoddy cinematography, family friendly tone, formula-over-substance etc. Hate to break to you, but Watchmen is extremely mediocre AF.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 9, 2018 12:03:16 GMT
If Snyder's Watchman is really the high bar for you, then you really need to watch more films. Or at least read the comic. It's like philosophy vs a dude in a gym quoting philosophy. ah, the old "the book was so much better" deflection. I actually read the comic source a few months ago. And lo and behold, I mostly approve of the deletions such as
- homophobia (eg Rorschach stupidly assuming that the main villain is a homo which must further investigated, real pro) - misogyny/male "dumb-babbling-women" dialogue (eg villain's stupidly prattling PA before she gets shot in the fake assassination attempt) - Scientific (cosmological) inaccuracies (mostly by Dr Manhatten)
I wonder if those are the philosophies you are prattling about? Maybe you spent more time with the resident raccoon turd sniffers and pedophilia defenders than you should and now resemble those philosophy-quoting dudes in a gym more than you could realize? Abyssus Abyssum Invocat.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 9, 2018 19:36:22 GMT
Or at least read the comic. It's like philosophy vs a dude in a gym quoting philosophy. ah, the old "the book was so much better" deflection. I actually read the comic source a few months ago. And lo and behold, I mostly approve of the deletions such as
- homophobia (eg Rorschach stupidly assuming that the main villain is a homo which must further investigated, real pro) - misogyny/male "dumb-babbling-women" dialogue (eg villain's stupidly prattling PA before she gets shot in the fake assassination attempt) - Scientific (cosmological) inaccuracies (mostly by Dr Manhatten)
I wonder if those are the philosophies you are prattling about? Maybe you spent more time with the resident raccoon turd sniffers and pedophilia defenders than you should and now resemble those philosophy-quoting dudes in a gym more than you could realize? Abyssus Abyssum Invocat.
Rorschach is a piece of shit and you're not supposed to like him.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 9, 2018 19:54:06 GMT
ah, the old "the book was so much better" deflection. I actually read the comic source a few months ago. And lo and behold, I mostly approve of the deletions such as
- homophobia (eg Rorschach stupidly assuming that the main villain is a homo which must further investigated, real pro) - misogyny/male "dumb-babbling-women" dialogue (eg villain's stupidly prattling PA before she gets shot in the fake assassination attempt) - Scientific (cosmological) inaccuracies (mostly by Dr Manhatten)
I wonder if those are the philosophies you are prattling about? Maybe you spent more time with the resident raccoon turd sniffers and pedophilia defenders than you should and now resemble those philosophy-quoting dudes in a gym more than you could realize? Abyssus Abyssum Invocat.
Rorschach is a piece of shit and you're not supposed to like him. nope you do not understand the nuances, this is not bad vs good. Rorschach is such a superbly written, acted and directed character, and so well delineated from, say, Manhattan in language, character and motivation that he is the outstanding figure in this moral play. And in the film everybody is moved by this tragic death scene. "Never compromise", he dies for his principles. Best and most moving scene in all CBMs. But if it helps you sleep at night I identify more with Dr Manhatten in built and intellect.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Nov 9, 2018 23:52:52 GMT
Or at least read the comic. It's like philosophy vs a dude in a gym quoting philosophy. - homophobia (eg Rorschach stupidly assuming that the main villain is a homo which must further investigated, real pro) This is proof positive Zack Snyder didn't do a good job conveying the book's point, which was not in fact "Broooo, dark and edgy superheroes are kool! And look, titties!" Watchmen took the different kinds of superheroes in comics and took them to their logical extremes, and those extremes are supposed to be unsettling. Did you happen to notice the characters don't refer to themselves as "Watchmen" in the comic? That's because it's not their moniker, which would be f*cking stupid to anyone who knows where the term "Watchmen" comes from and what it's referring to. Rorschach, representing the tortured, street level vigilante, is a paranoid, right wing psychopath who sees the world in black and white and, yeah, is not too fond of the gays. Or women, for that matter. As wholesome as he might have seemed breaking people's fingers and splashing them with fry oil, no, you probably wouldn't want to invite him to your koala barbeque. If you want a murderous superhero you can make your avatar and root for guilt-free, I think MCU's Punisher is more your speed. Also, a homophobic character =/= a homophobic book. Ozymandus (who is not "the villain" in the comic anymore than the others - another dumbing down of Snyder's by making him look and sound like a Nazi) is not even confirmed gay. That is, in the book. Your pal Snyder, on the other hand, found it necessary to stick a file for "BOYS" on Ozy's computer. I guess because Zack thinks gays and pedophiles are indistinguishable from one another. He also thinks gays are indistinguishable from crossdressers, as the token gay guy in Dawn of the Dead is seen trying on lady's high heels. High-larious! Then we have 300, where the evil Persians are all flamboyant and predatory homosexuals when, in reality, the Spartans were the "boy-lovers". Finally there's your favorite, BvS, where a gay couple making out is the first thing we see when Clark enters Gotham. This is pretty random and progressive for Zack, but considering his history with gays in his films, it was probably meant to show what a vile sh*thole Gotham is.
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havenless
Sophomore
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Post by havenless on Nov 13, 2018 20:32:30 GMT
Rorschach is a piece of shit and you're not supposed to like him. nope you do not understand the nuances, this is not bad vs good. Rorschach is such a superbly written, acted and directed character, and so well delineated from, say, Manhattan in language, character and motivation that he is the outstanding figure in this moral play. And in the film everybody is moved by this tragic death scene. "Never compromise", he dies for his principles. Best and most moving scene in all CBMs. But if it helps you sleep at night I identify more with Dr Manhatten in built and intellect. Are you Asian? Because his Mr. Happy was Hobbit sized
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
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Post by havenless on Nov 13, 2018 20:49:09 GMT
I was looking forward to how they explained the Flash scene. Still expecting them to give us the resolution they owe us, maybe in the Flash solo or MoS 2.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 13, 2018 20:54:24 GMT
Can we all agree the Justice League would have been far dumber had we gotten a Snyder cut? I'll agree with this... I don't get why anyone wants a Snyder cut when everyone blames Snyder for ruining MOS, BvS and JL? Do they want to see how much worse it could be?The biggest complaint about BvS is how much of a big incoherent mess it is, so why would they want more Snyder? I don't get it. Yet again, we are all over the same page on this.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 13, 2018 20:56:07 GMT
To me JL is far worse than BvS because of Whedon. To each his own. To me (and apparently for majority of critics) JL was one big meh whereas BvS was just terrible. And I'm pretty sure the only reason it wasn't as bad as BvS was due to Whedon. I agree with primeone, at leas ZS was committed to his own vision. What Whedon left us with was just... a mess.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 13, 2018 21:57:28 GMT
nope you do not understand the nuances, this is not bad vs good. Rorschach is such a superbly written, acted and directed character, and so well delineated from, say, Manhattan in language, character and motivation that he is the outstanding figure in this moral play. And in the film everybody is moved by this tragic death scene. "Never compromise", he dies for his principles. Best and most moving scene in all CBMs. But if it helps you sleep at night I identify more with Dr Manhatten in built and intellect. Are you Asian? Because his Mr. Happy was Hobbit sized hmmm, 1. Racist stereotype joke. 2. Juvenile phrasing and expressions. 3. Creepy fixation on small (child-like) genitalia. Say no more, you are an MCU fan, am I right or am I right?
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
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Post by havenless on Nov 13, 2018 21:59:18 GMT
Are you Asian? Because his Mr. Happy was Hobbit sized hmmm, 1. Racist stereotype joke. 2. Juvenile phrasing and expressions. 3. Creepy fixation on small (child-like) genitalia. Say no more, you are an MCU fan, am I right or am I right? DC purist more like
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 13, 2018 22:08:59 GMT
hmmm, 1. Racist stereotype joke. 2. Juvenile phrasing and expressions. 3. Creepy fixation on small (child-like) genitalia. Say no more, you are an MCU fan, am I right or am I right? DC purist more like well every fandom has it's black sheep, you should get lucky as soon as James "Did you create a penis" Gunn arrives at the gates of DC. All at WB bleating: Meeeeeh, moooar Maaaarvel DeeeeeeCeeeeeee.
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
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Post by havenless on Nov 13, 2018 22:16:09 GMT
well every fandom has it's black sheep, you should get lucky as soon as James "Did you create a penis" Gunn arrives at the gates of DC. All at WB bleating: Meeeeeh, moooar Maaaarvel DeeeeeeCeeeeeee. you should get lucky as soon as James Gunn arrives at DC. Why?
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 13, 2018 22:41:01 GMT
well every fandom has it's black sheep, you should get lucky as soon as James "Did you create a penis" Gunn arrives at the gates of DC. All at WB bleating: Meeeeeh, moooar Maaaarvel DeeeeeeCeeeeeee. Why? because he is James " I like it when boys touch me in my silly place" Gunn and creates this marvelous penis, turds & nipples dialogue. If that is not to your taste: brace yourself for dark times, pal, and look for something squishy in your pillow...
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
Posts: 717
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Post by havenless on Nov 13, 2018 22:45:56 GMT
because he is James " I like it when boys touch me in my silly place" Gunn and creates this marvelous penis, turds & nipples dialogue. If that is not to your taste: brace yourself for dark times, pal, and look for something squishy in your pillow... I have been watching the DCEU since it’s inception. Dark times have already been braced for.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 13, 2018 23:28:51 GMT
To each his own. To me (and apparently for majority of critics) JL was one big meh whereas BvS was just terrible. And I'm pretty sure the only reason it wasn't as bad as BvS was due to Whedon. I agree with primeone, at leas ZS was committed to his own vision. What Whedon left us with was just... a mess. What was messy about Justice League? It was terrible, but I was never as lost, confused or annoyed as I was with Batman v Superman or Man of Steel.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 13, 2018 23:29:56 GMT
I agree with primeone, at leas ZS was committed to his own vision. What Whedon left us with was just... a mess. What was messy about Justice League? It was terrible, but I was never as lost, confused or annoyed as I was with Batman v Superman or Man of Steel. it was like watching three different films ( poorly ) stitched together a mess
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 14, 2018 3:13:06 GMT
To each his own. To me (and apparently for majority of critics) JL was one big meh whereas BvS was just terrible. And I'm pretty sure the only reason it wasn't as bad as BvS was due to Whedon. I agree with primeone, at leas ZS was committed to his own vision. What Whedon left us with was just... a mess. Well yeah, that's because the movie was mostly Snyder and not Whedon. That's why it was a mess. But Whedon tampering with JL was the only thing that made it passably palatable sans mustache cgi.
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