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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 7:34:45 GMT
Tyrion's a piece of shit. I was just reminded of this by that scene in S2E05 in which he plays with Lancel, barely listening to what he says, more interested in feeling superior over someone he can bully:
This is the kind of behaviour that made him a fan favourite. The disadvantaged finding compensation not only in getting even with those guilty of not sharing his affliction but in putting his foot on them and pressing them into the dirt for good measure. You'll never see Tywin, Cersei or Jaime do this.
This is the fantasy of any loser with a wish for revenge over their better. They will hate Lannisters but somehow Tyrion is the Lannister they'd want to be. This is why they cheer at him torturing Lancel, mocking his sister, sending Janos Slynt to the Wall or terrorising Pycelle.
I used to like Tyrion for being smart and witty but it stopped there.
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 10:27:36 GMT
Jaime loved his brother and was always nice to him but he was never a nice guy and could be a douchbag to anyone who wasn't in his family. I'm able to recognize this despite Jaime being my favorite character.
As for the other two, you either blind by your adulation of these characters or you haven't been paying attention
Cersei and Tywin tormented Tyrion since he was born and despise him for being a dwarf. Cersei in particular spent most of her time being a dick to pretty much everyone except Jaime and her father (more out of fear than anything else). The accusation you make at Tyrion you can easily make at Tywin and Cersei. Did you forget the whole business with Tysha?
Mocking his sister? Are you being serious? What about all the shit Cersei done to him? And Janos Slint? The guy that killed a baby? He got off easy if you ask me.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 10:52:45 GMT
Jaime loved his brother and was always nice to him but he was never a nice guy and could be a douchbag to anyone who wasn't in his family. I'm talking about doing it for pleasure and as a form of compensation. Joffrey does this too.
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 11:01:59 GMT
Jaime loved his brother and was always nice to him but he was never a nice guy and could be a douchbag to anyone who wasn't in his family. I'm talking about doing it for pleasure and as a form of compensation. Joffrey does this too. Right, when Cersei twisted Tyrion's dick when he was a baby, she was doing it for what? When she is saying that he killed her own mother by being born what's her reason?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 11:17:15 GMT
I'm talking about doing it for pleasure and as a form of compensation. Joffrey does this too. Right, when Cersei twisted Tyrion's dick when he was a baby, she was doing it for what? When she is saying that he killed her own mother by being born what's her reason? Whatever her reasons, she's targeting a person she holds responsible for something, not abusing some random cousin as a form of generic revenge. Tyrion's despicable.
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 11:22:10 GMT
Right, when Cersei twisted Tyrion's dick when he was a baby, she was doing it for what? When she is saying that he killed her own mother by being born what's her reason? Whatever her reasons, she's targeting a person she holds responsible for something, not abusing some random cousin as a form of generic revenge. Tyrion's despicable. She was abusing him because as form of generic revenge considering that Tyrion is not responsible for Joana's death. And by the way, Lancel started treating him condescendingly by calling him dwarf and such. Plus if being mean to Lancel makes Tyrion dispicable what does that say about Cersei that was hurting a newborn? Because one of those actions is clearly much worse than the other.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 11:27:48 GMT
Whatever her reasons, she's targeting a person she holds responsible for something, not abusing some random cousin as a form of generic revenge. Tyrion's despicable. She was abusing him because as form of generic revenge considering that Tyrion is not responsible for Joana's death. And by the way, Lancel started treating him condescendingly by calling him dwarf and such. Nothing is generic in Cersei's handling of Tyrion. Everything is personal and none of it is for revenge or pleasure. When she told him about killing her mother in S2E02, it was in answer to Tyrion's misplaced joke about "Jaime falling on her repeatedly". Here already, he was shooting at her out of a personal need for getting even, as he had done the episode before, calling her "the disappointing child". Tyrion oozes self-victimisation in almost everything he says. As to Lancel's attitude, Tyrion's reasons for being that sort of shit doesn't make him anything else.
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 11:32:24 GMT
She was abusing him because as form of generic revenge considering that Tyrion is not responsible for Joana's death. And by the way, Lancel started treating him condescendingly by calling him dwarf and such. Nothing is generic in Cersei's handling of Tyrion. Everything is personal and none of it is for revenge or pleasure. When she told him about killing her mother in S2E02, it was in answer to Tyrion's misplaced joke about "Jaime falling on her repeatedly". Here already, he was shooting at her out of a personal need for getting even, as he had done the episode before, calling her "the disappointing child". Tyrion oozes self-victimisation in almost everything he says. As to Lancel's attitude, Tyrion's reasons for being that sort of shit doesn't make him anything else. Doing it for pleasure doesn't make her a better person than Tyrion. And clearly Tyrion was enjoying his mocking of Lancel. So that argument goes both ways. And I wasn't talking about her telling him about killing her mother. I was talking about what Oberyin said when he visited Casterly Rock when Tyrion was a baby and she was torturing a newborn. And if she did that for pleasure, that's makes her almost a psycopath.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 11:35:26 GMT
Nothing is generic in Cersei's handling of Tyrion. Everything is personal and none of it is for revenge or pleasure. When she told him about killing her mother in S2E02, it was in answer to Tyrion's misplaced joke about "Jaime falling on her repeatedly". Here already, he was shooting at her out of a personal need for getting even, as he had done the episode before, calling her "the disappointing child". Tyrion oozes self-victimisation in almost everything he says. As to Lancel's attitude, Tyrion's reasons for being that sort of shit doesn't make him anything else. Doing it for pleasure doesn't make her a better person than Tyrion. And clearly Tyrion was enjoying his mocking of Lancel. So that argument goes both ways. And I wasn't talking about her telling him about killing her mother. I was talking about what Oberyin said when he visited Casterly Rock when Tyrion was a baby and she was torturing a newborn. And if she did that for pleasure, that's makes her almost a psycopath. You might want to read what I wrote again.
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 11:38:24 GMT
Doing it for pleasure doesn't make her a better person than Tyrion. And clearly Tyrion was enjoying his mocking of Lancel. So that argument goes both ways. And I wasn't talking about her telling him about killing her mother. I was talking about what Oberyin said when he visited Casterly Rock when Tyrion was a baby and she was torturing a newborn. And if she did that for pleasure, that's makes her almost a psycopath. You might want to read what I wrote again. What am I missing?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 11:39:12 GMT
You might want to read what I wrote again. What am I missing? "Everything is personal and none of it is for revenge or pleasure."
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 11:44:52 GMT
"Everything is personal and none of it is for revenge or pleasure." My mistake then. But it's clearly wrong considering that the harmful treatment of Tyrion by both Tywin and Cersei is due to a grudge for Tyrion's perceived responsibility in Joana's death. That's pretty much about revenge. And I'm mostly going by the show because in the books, Tyrion is more grey than in the show and Cersei is far more insane and downright evil in the books. It wasn't Joffrey that ordered the deaths of countless bastards, but Cersei.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 11:55:22 GMT
"Everything is personal and none of it is for revenge or pleasure." My mistake then. But it's clearly wrong considering that the harmful treatment of Tyrion by both Tywin and Cersei is due to a grudge for Tyrion's perceived responsibility in Joana's death. That's pretty much about revenge. None of it is about revenge. Tywin struggles to tolerate this child who cost him his wife and looks like a risk for the family image for his behaviour alone (whoring, drinking, gambling…). Still, he does all he can to get his son up to speed and trusts him with serious responsibilities. As to Cersei, she always bites back to something. She might be wrong, as when she thinks Tyrion wants to risk Joffrey's life in battle, but it's always a reaction. Reaction to a tasteless joke in S2E02, to sending Myrcella away in S2E06, to putting Joffrey at risk in S2E08 which will call for a threat in return by Tyrion who wants her to believe she got the right whore. It will end in Cersei believing he did put this threat to execution in S4.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 11:58:59 GMT
And I'm mostly going by the show because in the books, Tyrion is more grey than in the show and Cersei is far more insane and downright evil in the books. It wasn't Joffrey that ordered the deaths of countless bastards, but Cersei. Preston Jacobs says it was Littlefinger
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 7, 2018 12:21:02 GMT
My mistake then. But it's clearly wrong considering that the harmful treatment of Tyrion by both Tywin and Cersei is due to a grudge for Tyrion's perceived responsibility in Joana's death. That's pretty much about revenge. None of it is about revenge. Tywin struggles to tolerate this child who cost him his wife and looks like a risk for the family image for his behaviour alone (whoring, drinking, gambling…). Still, he does all he can to get his son up to speed and trusts him with serious responsibilities. As to Cersei, she always bites back to something. She might be wrong, as when she thinks Tyrion wants to risk Joffrey's life in battle, but it's always a reaction. Reaction to a tasteless joke in S2E02, to sending Myrcella away in S2E06, to putting Joffrey at risk in S2E08 which will call for a threat in return by Tyrion who wants her to believe she got the right whore. It will end in Cersei believing he did put this threat to execution in S4. He was treated like shit when he's clearly the one more capable of carrying Tywin's legacy. Cersei drinks a lot too and does Tywin's treatment of her is very different. Also Tysha wasn't a whore and while Tyrion clearly made a mistake by marrying a peasant women, he didn't deserve that punishment. And course it's about revenge. He's being treated by both Tywin and Cersei since he was born as if he was to blame for death of his mother. He is hated not because of what he did, but because of who he was. He was treated with contempt all his life even when he was just a child. And Tyrion didn't want Joffrey to risk his life in battle. He never ordered him to go to the front lines. He only noted that despite his boasts he wasn't the fighter Jaime was or the king that Robert was (willing to go into the dirt himself) He wasn't even a good strategist like his grandfather. All he wanted wanted was for the King to show that he was at least near the lines in order to inspire the men fighting for the Lannisters. Sending Myrcella away was a way of saving her life if Stannis took the city and to secure an alliance with a House not yet pledged to the War of the Five Kings.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 7, 2018 12:31:40 GMT
Cersei might be wrong headed in her assessment of Tyrion's intention but she never plays with people the way Tyrion does with Lancel, nor does Tywin. I don't see how Tyrion was treated like shit. He often thinks he is, yes. Tywin made him acting Hand and Cersei cannot trust him because he rolled into King's landing like a panzer, removing people loyal to her to place people loyal to him.
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Post by Marv on Nov 7, 2018 21:18:03 GMT
Samwell Tarly is the only character i can think of that is particularly nice. Doesn't make the rest bad people.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2018 11:42:46 GMT
Yeah, and especially after Lancel always treated Tyrion only with the greatest respect.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 8, 2018 13:20:45 GMT
Yeah, and especially after Lancel always treated Tyrion only with the greatest respect. It seems shit always finds a reason to stink. I mean you.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2018 14:03:48 GMT
Plus Jaime killed his cousin but he had it coming since Jaime didn’t know him very well and just wanted to go home.
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