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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 12:22:08 GMT
People are looking at it through Dark Knight colored glasses and unfairly limping it with "Batman and Robin".
Gotham looks like a Gothic comic accurate city. It's basically a dark remake of the 1960s Batman with Val Kilmer (in my opinion is the best Bruce Wayne and Batman combo ever, it's not his fault his script wasn't as good as Keaton's or Bales).
It's the only one with the balls to deal with Robin and how his origin mirrors Bruce's origin and he almost quits as Batman because of it. I prefer Nicole Kidman as a psychologist challenging Bruce's psyche. She's hotter than Michelle Pfifer and Kim Basinger.
The only weak spot was Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face. Other than that, I love it. Better than most MCU films for me.
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Post by James on Nov 19, 2018 14:13:41 GMT
Interesting defence. I don’t mind Chris O’Donnell as much in here, but he was still whiny at points.
But yeah, Kidman is kinda hotter than Basinger and Pfieffer.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 19, 2018 14:20:13 GMT
I think it’s the worst big-budget Batman film, and that includes Batman and Robin. Jones, Carrey, and O’Donnell are dreadful in it, and Kilmer’s as dull as ever. At least Batman and Robin has a mood, a clear plan for where Schumacher wants to go (a Schumacherian take on the Adam West Batman); Batman Forever is set halfway between a Burton Batman and a West Batman, which is ultimately nowhere at all.
But, yeah, Kidman’s gorgeous in this.
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Post by Popeye Doyle on Nov 19, 2018 14:28:06 GMT
I liked it when I was 10. Now... not so much. With the exception of the hapless security guard, not much stands out as best of anything. I remember really disliking the SNES video it was based on.
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Post by johnspartan on Nov 19, 2018 15:12:14 GMT
I liked it when I was 10. Now... not so much. With the exception of the hapless security guard, not much stands out as best of anything. I remember really disliking the SNES video it was based on. The Sega Genesis game was better than the SNES one. |
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Post by politicidal on Nov 19, 2018 15:19:15 GMT
Between this and To Die For, Kidman never looked better. I agree. But I just found it dull whenever Jim Carrey wasn't onscreen and I'm not even that big a Jim Carrey fan. Jones probably gave his worst performance as Discount Joker which is all his version of Two-Face really is. Knowing how much he and Carrey didn't get along did make a fascinating backstory. And as the OP mentioned, it does try (in glib nineties fashion) to analyze Batman.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 19, 2018 15:31:59 GMT
"Gotham looks like a Gothic comic accurate city."
Dunno if I agree, (does Gotham really have that many neon signs and riddiculous props?). Even it was true, that's not necesarily a good thing, what works in the comics would just look riddiculous in real life (there's a reason Hugh Jackam doesn't wear yellow spandex in the Xmen films, they even made fun of this in the first one)
"It's the only one with the balls to deal with Robin"
That's another problem, I never liked Robin, Batman always worked best alone. He was supposed to be this dark, brooding, solitary man, throwing in some kid in green spandex and racoon mask really ruins that atmosphere.
"The only weak spot was Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face."
Well that's one of the many weak spots (Jim Carey wasn't much better)
I would argue Forever is worse than the much more maligned Batman and Robin, while the latter was cringey, the former was just boring, which is probably the worst thing a film can be.
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Post by Marv on Nov 19, 2018 17:22:47 GMT
I still prefer Pfeiffer.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 19, 2018 17:30:16 GMT
It's terrible. It's every bit as bad as Batman & Robin.
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Post by Archelaus on Nov 19, 2018 17:58:14 GMT
It was a popular Batman film at the time it was released, but its reputation took a hit when it came associated with Batman & Robin.
Nowadays, it's a product of its time. It does have some jarring tonal shifts from the dark style from the Tim Burton films and the light-hearted, campy feel. I did not like Tommy Lee Jones's portrayal of Two-Face. Two-Face is not supposed to be maniacally laughing, over-the-top crime lord, and having him flip his coin multiple times in order to achieve his desired outcome ruins the essence of the character. Jim Carrey is slightly better and makes the movie watchable.
I did appreciate the exploration of Bruce's psyche. Val Kilmer could have been a better Bruce Wayne/Batman if he was given a better script. And for some reason, he hardly ever closed his mouth when he's in costume. I felt Robin should have been younger, but Chris O'Donnell was pretty decent in the role. I did hate that after he gets even with Two-Face, he's no help to Batman at the end. Last but not least, Nicole Kidman was beyond beautiful in the film.
The other good thing to come from this movie was the awesome soundtrack.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Nov 19, 2018 18:24:16 GMT
Sit down kids, and Let me take you back to that olde timey year, 1995...this was actually the #1 movie that year, the theater was packed when I saw it, and remember, this was before stadium seating, so you got all up in each other's armrests!
I was disappointed Keaton left with Burton, but this was pretty fresh at the time. I still listen to my soundtrack CD, it's just great. Kilmer is so subdued, as both Bats and Bruce. Tommy Lee Jones almost explodes his own head attempting to out-ham Jim Carrey. Jones goes too far, Carrey is perfect. Kidman never disappoints, ever.
After so many newer and darker versions since, it's only natural to look at this as cheesy, but it's one of the best Batman movies we've got.
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Post by Popeye Doyle on Nov 19, 2018 18:30:32 GMT
Christmas 1995 -
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Post by ck100 on Nov 19, 2018 18:53:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 20:18:08 GMT
Batman Returns is my favorite of the Tim Burton ones. Batman Forever's okay. It's probably about as good as Batman 1989 and better than Batman and Robin, which is so cheese that I really can't be mad at it.
I can't condone Batman Forever as being better than the MCU movies. Batman Returns and 2 thirds of The Dark Knight trilogy, but I can only stretch so far. Even then, I only say 2 thirds of The Dark Knight trilogy because I didn't like where they took the story in The Dark Knight Rises, but that's more of a story issue than a well executed film issue. Batman Forever has its delightful moments but I'm fine with it being in the past where it belongs. Batman Returns is the only live action Batman film from that era I can still watch and enjoy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 20:57:39 GMT
People didn't like it long before The Dark Knight. A remake of the 60s show with Val Kilmer wasn't what anyone was asking for in a post-Frank Miller/Dennis O'Neal (hell, even TAS) world. Well, I guess parents and in turn the studio so they could get that Happy Meal money after Batman Returns traumatized children, but aside from them...
FWIW, I enjoyed it as a kid since I loved both Batman and Jim Carrey. And I'd still rather watch it than BvS.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 21:24:36 GMT
People didn't like it long before The Dark Knight. A remake of the 60s show with Val Kilmer wasn't what anyone was asking for in a post-Frank Miller/Dennis O'Neal (hell, even TAS) world. Well, I guess parents and in turn the studio so they could get that Happy Meal money after Batman Returns traumatized children, but aside from them... FWIW, I enjoyed it as a kid since I loved both Batman and Jim Carrey. And I'd still rather watch it than BvS. That's not true. It was loved by audiences at the time. Very high grossing film, awesome soundtrack, it was quite popular. Then Batman and Robin came out and people started lumping it with that film. There are people to this day who mix them up and say "what's the difference, it's Joel Shumacher" but there is a huge difference. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 19, 2018 21:48:16 GMT
People didn't like it long before The Dark Knight. A remake of the 60s show with Val Kilmer wasn't what anyone was asking for in a post-Frank Miller/Dennis O'Neal (hell, even TAS) world. Well, I guess parents and in turn the studio so they could get that Happy Meal money after Batman Returns traumatized children, but aside from them... FWIW, I enjoyed it as a kid since I loved both Batman and Jim Carrey. And I'd still rather watch it than BvS. That's not true. It was loved by audiences at the time. Very high grossing film, awesome soundtrack, it was quite popular. Then Batman and Robin came out and people started lumping it with that film. There are people to this day who mix them up and say "what's the difference, it's Joel Shumacher" but there is a huge difference. Was it really "loved" by audiences at the time? It has a 40% on Rotten Tomatoes and 53% on IMDB, which leads my to believe audiences were mostly "meh" on it. It did fine at the Box Office, but it still did less than Batman 89 and just because it did well at the time doesn't mean audiences necessarily loved it back then (Pocahauntus made more money that year and that's one of the more forgettable 90s Disney films). Even as a little kid that loved the Burton Batman films, I remeber thinking Forever was just rather dull. As for "awesome" soundtrack, eh I guess "Kiss from a Rose" was an OK song, don't really remember the other songs. Or are you talking about the score (that's considered something else) |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 19, 2018 22:00:38 GMT
It's okay.
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Post by Anonymous Andy on Nov 19, 2018 22:03:23 GMT
I actually think this movie gets too much credit as it is. Re-watching it a few years ago, it struck me just how boring it is, in spite of all its quipiness and bright, flashing colors. It's like a big cup of fizzy nothing.
Its only redeeming quality is the Nicole Kidman upskirt shot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 22:10:33 GMT
People didn't like it long before The Dark Knight. A remake of the 60s show with Val Kilmer wasn't what anyone was asking for in a post-Frank Miller/Dennis O'Neal (hell, even TAS) world. Well, I guess parents and in turn the studio so they could get that Happy Meal money after Batman Returns traumatized children, but aside from them... FWIW, I enjoyed it as a kid since I loved both Batman and Jim Carrey. And I'd still rather watch it than BvS. That's not true. It was loved by audiences at the time. Very high grossing film, awesome soundtrack, it was quite popular. Then Batman and Robin came out and people started lumping it with that film. There are people to this day who mix them up and say "what's the difference, it's Joel Shumacher" but there is a huge difference. There are message boards from 1995 and you can see how devisive it was. And like another poster said, it split critics. |
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