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Post by charzhino on Nov 27, 2018 10:42:09 GMT
No it was a perfect way to retcon the timeline which DOFP does a piss poor job at actually explaining, which could easily been explained away simply by having Mystique be at the mansion when Logan wakes up, easy logic to follow that, after the vents of DOFP's past alterations Raven joins the team so she is not with Magneto during the events of X1 or X2, so she cannot ruin Cerebro and Xavier & the team defuse Magneto far easier in X1, now this doesn't do much, but then in X2 with Mystique not helping Magneto trying to kill all of humanity the team get out of the lake before the structure collapses so Jean doesn't need to sacrifice herself to save everyone, so the Phoenix doesn't emerge for X3 she doesn't kill Scott or Xavier. Wrong. When Mistique refuses to shoot Trask and lay down the gun, the new DOFP timeline is created so that Mistique becomes a hero and eventually becomes the leader of the young Xmen in Apocalypse. She doesn't become the villain of X1/2/3. Now what happens from that point until Logan wakes up in the mansion is unknown but what we do know is that X1/2/3 never happened in that timeline. When Logan awakes in the mansion at the end of DOFP, he's the only one on the planet who remembers both timelines as he says, ''the history I know is a little different'' to Prof Xavaier. Wolverine waking up in the mansion is one timeline of many that can be a result of branching off from the moment Kitty sent his consciousness back to the 80s. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same timeline as the new trilogy. Xavier says in his closing monologue ''The past: a new and uncertain world. A world of endless possibilities and infinite outcomes. Countless choices define our fate: each choice, each moment, a moment in the ripple of time. Enough ripple, and you change the tide... for the future is never truly set. '' That's evidence enough to suggest there are multiple timelines fractured from the original unaltered timeline. There is no reason to think that Mystique saving him from drowning does anything to stop him from meeting Striker the same way he did in the old timeline. The fact Mystique is posing as Stryker is actually clever and ties in with Xaviers closing monologue of him saying the future is never truly set, and Mystique disguised as Strike saving Logan is a perfect example. I assume you mean in the 90s of the upcoming Dark Phoenix story? You need to re-clarify this point because Im confused. Hes never referenced as Warren Worthington II in Apocalypse. No he has always been mutants first. He meets Xavier in the 60s and from First Class onwards he is always of the thought that mutants are the superior species, there are several quotes including his whole exchange with Shaw at the end which proves this. In the original X1/2/3 timeline, Magneto would have been in prison in the 80s under the Pentagon just like in DOFP but escaped in another way instead of using Quicksilver, because Logan would not have been around to take him there. He would have had the same mindset across both timelines.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 15:29:25 GMT
Not much of a retcon if they fail to capitalize on it. Apocalypse was a lame follow-up and Logan was more or less an Elsewords movie. At least Marvel has never had to make an entire movie to correct the past mistakes of another. It was getting to the point where nearly every failed Fox-Men movie was going to require a do-over. And no one can really complain about the MCU and it's lack of stakes or meaningful/lasting deaths when DOFP ends with everyone alive and well. They should have used the original cast in Apocalypse as Singer wanted instead of the kiddie one but that's Foxs mistake for being cheap to avoid paying big bucks to the OT actors. Marvels movies are assembly lined products for mass consumption, of course they don't make mistakes because in-between films are treated as fillers. That's why in 20 movies they haven't produced a single product comparable to Dark Knight or Logan. The creative energy at marvel is not entirely focused on making 1 elite level movie, rather its dissipated in making 7 straight ''decent'' movies with maybe 1 very good movie in between that. DOFP ends with everyone alive and well. Then they all die in Logan. Lets see what happens to the deaths in IW, pretty sure they wont stay dead. Whether Marvel has or hasn't produced a movie equal to the Dark Knight or Logan is up for debate. Many consider Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Black Panther, The Avengers, Civil War, etc. to be equal to those films or at least close. I'm not saying they are, but it's subject to opinion. If you've ever read the Infinity Gauntlet comic books, which the movie is based on, you would know that everyone that dies eventually comes back. It's party of the story. They're just being faithful to the source material in that aspect. Do you really expect them to kill off important/franchise-leading characters for the sake of a single film just to satisfy those that only see real stakes when characters permanently die? Marvel is smart in thinking long term. Not like Fox, who does things one film at a time resulting in further foul-ups.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 27, 2018 16:43:42 GMT
They should have used the original cast in Apocalypse as Singer wanted instead of the kiddie one but that's Foxs mistake for being cheap to avoid paying big bucks to the OT actors. Marvels movies are assembly lined products for mass consumption, of course they don't make mistakes because in-between films are treated as fillers. That's why in 20 movies they haven't produced a single product comparable to Dark Knight or Logan. The creative energy at marvel is not entirely focused on making 1 elite level movie, rather its dissipated in making 7 straight ''decent'' movies with maybe 1 very good movie in between that. DOFP ends with everyone alive and well. Then they all die in Logan. Lets see what happens to the deaths in IW, pretty sure they wont stay dead. Whether Marvel has or hasn't produced a movie equal to the Dark Knight or Logan is up for debate. Many consider Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Black Panther, The Avengers, Civil War, etc. to be equal to those films or at least close. I'm not saying they are, but it's subject to opinion. Lol. I have read it but so what. Film is diffrent medium. If no one dies permanently then theres no feeling of dread, worth or tension. Basic story telling tenant. If everyone who died in IW, especially Gamora, come back then its a cheap cop out and signifies how much of a pussy Kevin Fegie is. Marvel Disney are not smart, they just know how to sell their product to casual fans by dumbing down. As i said before Id rather I get an X3 and Origins if it means I get a Logan with it.
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Post by ghostintheshell on Nov 27, 2018 17:20:20 GMT
Not sure if it's relevant to the main topic but MCU's treatment of SHIELD has been bugging me for a while now. The film franchise has completely ignored Coulson's return and SHIELD still functioning long after the Hydra invasion in Winter Soldier while AOS continues to drop MCU references every season (even as recent as Thanos) but not vice versa. They trynna convince us that the show is still relevant for fans of the movie franchise?
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 17:54:06 GMT
Whether Marvel has or hasn't produced a movie equal to the Dark Knight or Logan is up for debate. Many consider Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Black Panther, The Avengers, Civil War, etc. to be equal to those films or at least close. I'm not saying they are, but it's subject to opinion. Lol. I have read it but so what. Film is diffrent medium. If no one dies permanently then theres no feeling of dread, worth or tension. Basic story telling tenant. If everyone who died in IW, especially Gamora, come back then its a cheap cop out and signifies how much of a pussy Kevin Fegie is. Marvel Disney are not smart, they just know how to sell their product to casual fans by dumbing down. As i said before Id rather I get an X3 and Origins if it means I get a Logan with it. For you maybe. For those of us with a less narrow mind, there are other, more creative ways to establish stakes and tension than by killing off main characters, which is usually seen as a cheap and lazy way to elicit drama and for shock value. They should only do it and stick with it if it's important to the overall plot and if they plan on never reusing certain characters. Marvel is smart because they know this. They don't blow their wad on a single film. They take their time and plan accordingly. Otherwise we end up with continuity issues, inconsistencies and unnecessary reboots and do-overs, which is what Fox-Men is known for. If they kill off Captain America, Iron Man, Black Panther, Spider-Man, GOTG, etc., when there is still potential for these characters, it better be for a good and lasting reason. I'd rather these characters be left alive and available for use in future films in favor of having them die and some lesser character taking up their mantle, cheapening their value. It's true that film is a different medium and Marvel has proven in the past that they don't stick with the source material. I'm just saying that if the dead characters do return, which they most likely will (because who doesn't want to see every MCU hero standing side-by-side during the grand finale), it will not be out of line with anything. I'm sure whatever Marvel comes up with, it'll be done with careful consideration to the long-term future of the entire MCU, not just for Avengers 4. And don't act like Fox hasn't had their share of dumbing things down.
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Post by summers8 on Nov 27, 2018 20:03:45 GMT
They should have used the original cast in Apocalypse as Singer wanted instead of the kiddie one but that's Foxs mistake for being cheap to avoid paying big bucks to the OT actors. Marvels movies are assembly lined products for mass consumption, of course they don't make mistakes because in-between films are treated as fillers. That's why in 20 movies they haven't produced a single product comparable to Dark Knight or Logan. The creative energy at marvel is not entirely focused on making 1 elite level movie, rather its dissipated in making 7 straight ''decent'' movies with maybe 1 very good movie in between that. DOFP ends with everyone alive and well. Then they all die in Logan. Lets see what happens to the deaths in IW, pretty sure they wont stay dead. Whether Marvel has or hasn't produced a movie equal to the Dark Knight or Logan is up for debate. Many consider Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Black Panther, The Avengers, Civil War, etc. to be equal to those films or at least close. I'm not saying they are, but it's subject to opinion. If you've ever read the Infinity Gauntlet comic books, which the movie is based on, you would know that everyone that dies eventually comes back. It's party of the story. They're just being faithful to the source material in that aspect. Do you really expect them to kill off important/franchise-leading characters for the sake of a single film just to satisfy those that only see real stakes when characters permanently die? Marvel is smart in thinking long term. Not like Fox, who does things one film at a time resulting in further foul-ups. Marvel has factually not produced anything up to logan and tdk. that is not up for debate. that is fact. if it is up for debate, you would be able to debate it and also the content will show it. also disney wont try to buy oscars they will earn it like logan and tdk nd they cant meaning it is not debatable
when DOFP was released the content and recpetion of the film said this was the best comic drama since TDK. that was the clue it was only a matter of time before X-Men has a movie that most will consider better than TDK and Logan happened. that was fact. also remember dofp came out with winter solider and everyone said DOFP was the superior movie. so please stop lieing. the facts are not on your side.
Infinity war? this is impossible. since TDK and LOGAN are 90% serious drama they dont need so much cgi.
Black Panther? there was just a debate with first class and black panther lost.
Winter Solider is the closest thing marvel has to maturity but what is the movie next to DOFP or Batman Begins.
Please be consistent dont try and defend infinity war for what you tried to criticise DOFP for choosing to ignore DOFP comics. also speaking of infifnty war, didnt people call it a retargeted version of DOFP?
it is of fact mcu makes only dumb movies and they have one serious one.
lol..avengers? how can you say this is on the level of tdk and logan? avengers is childish comedy movie. avengers wont even get pass X2 or TDKR.
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Post by dazz on Nov 27, 2018 21:34:27 GMT
No it was a perfect way to retcon the timeline which DOFP does a piss poor job at actually explaining, which could easily been explained away simply by having Mystique be at the mansion when Logan wakes up, easy logic to follow that, after the vents of DOFP's past alterations Raven joins the team so she is not with Magneto during the events of X1 or X2, so she cannot ruin Cerebro and Xavier & the team defuse Magneto far easier in X1, now this doesn't do much, but then in X2 with Mystique not helping Magneto trying to kill all of humanity the team get out of the lake before the structure collapses so Jean doesn't need to sacrifice herself to save everyone, so the Phoenix doesn't emerge for X3 she doesn't kill Scott or Xavier. Wrong. When Mistique refuses to shoot Trask and lay down the gun, the new DOFP timeline is created so that Mistique becomes a hero and eventually becomes the leader of the young Xmen in Apocalypse. She doesn't become the villain of X1/2/3. Now what happens from that point until Logan wakes up in the mansion is unknown but what we do know is that X1/2/3 never happened in that timeline. When Logan awakes in the mansion at the end of DOFP, he's the only one on the planet who remembers both timelines as he says, ''the history I know is a little different'' to Prof Xavaier. Wolverine waking up in the mansion is one timeline of many that can be a result of branching off from the moment Kitty sent his consciousness back to the 80s. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same timeline as the new trilogy. Xavier says in his closing monologue ''The past: a new and uncertain world. A world of endless possibilities and infinite outcomes. Countless choices define our fate: each choice, each moment, a moment in the ripple of time. Enough ripple, and you change the tide... for the future is never truly set. '' That's evidence enough to suggest there are multiple timelines fractured from the original unaltered timeline. There is no reason to think that Mystique saving him from drowning does anything to stop him from meeting Striker the same way he did in the old timeline. The fact Mystique is posing as Stryker is actually clever and ties in with Xaviers closing monologue of him saying the future is never truly set, and Mystique disguised as Strike saving Logan is a perfect example. I assume you mean in the 90s of the upcoming Dark Phoenix story? You need to re-clarify this point because Im confused. Hes never referenced as Warren Worthington II in Apocalypse. No he has always been mutants first. He meets Xavier in the 60s and from First Class onwards he is always of the thought that mutants are the superior species, there are several quotes including his whole exchange with Shaw at the end which proves this. In the original X1/2/3 timeline, Magneto would have been in prison in the 80s under the Pentagon just like in DOFP but escaped in another way instead of using Quicksilver, because Logan would not have been around to take him there. He would have had the same mindset across both timelines. I cant quote like you do so this is in order as you responded.
1: Striker by the events of Apocalypse doesn't seem to have his story all that changed, despite mutants being accepted and Trask villainised his program shut down Striker is still operating a blacksite in Canada where he is experimenting on mutants with little to no oversight, this during the time when mutants weren't seen clearly as the enemy, now you add in Apocalypse's stunt and whatever will happen with Jean in the next film it's unlikely to believe Striker's funding is just going to dry up all of a sudden, so the events of X2 should mostly remain, atleast the catalyst of events, but with Raven not a part of the team by end of DOFP how she manages to do what she does in that film remains hard to believe.
2: Wrong if their are multiple paths that can be changed at any point Wolverine would never have woken up, his consciousness would return to the body in his original timeline, by him waking in the new timeline suggest that is the future timeline from DOFP onward, yes the future can be altered but only through intervention through time travel, otherwise what is the point of doing it, only through a foreign element into the timeline can history be altered, and whilst multiple possibilities exist once that element is removed the timeline is set until a new element is introduced, there for we know at the very least all the heroes except Nightcrawler survive till the future when Logan wakes up, we know Jean despite going Phoenix in the next movie gets better, unless X-Men once again fuck up their continuity.
3: So she saves Wolverine as Striker but then leaves him to be caught by Striker and experimented on anyway, this makes no fucking sense, not in the scope of the films narrative, now it could have been sorted out with a little dialogue in Apocalypse, Striker thanks Raven because if she hadn't posed as him to save Logan he never would have got his hands on him, make it a part of her character and why she is so motivated in helping the likes of Kurt, she left Logan to be used by Striker and she feels guilty for it and why she goes out of her way and out of pocket to help those who need it, give a little depth to her character, also why she doesn't believe in the equality or see herself as a hero.
4: No in the trailers for X-Men Phoenix or DP, whatever, Jean as a little girl has her powers emerge and she accidentally seems to kill her parents by causing a car accident, this presumably happens just a few years after DOFP in the 70's as in Apocalypse set in the early 80's Jean is already a full on teen, but she is a little girl during the car ride, but in X3 set in the 2000's we see Jean's powers manifest in the 80's when she is a only slightly younger teenager, with parents, why does stopping Trask & his program cause Jean's powers to manifest a decade earlier and kill her parents when they hadn't before, also why can Xavier walk in the original timeline when he meets her, and why is he already bald when it's through apocalypse he loses his hair in the 80's anyway?
5: Ok maybe true I dunno but seems morel ike a bullshit excuse for a cock up.
6: No Magneto in the original timeline is mutants first, he will sacrifice even those he cares about to achieve his goal, and he's affections die the moment they stop being like him, as we see in X3 when he just abandons Raven, the trauma of his childhood turns him into the same kind pf monster that killed his family, in the new timeline he abandons a world for mutant mentality because he falls in love, has a kid he knows about, only after their death does he become homicidal again, he is then willing to kill all of humanity until he see's the only people he has left, Raven & Xavier and their friends willing to die for humanity and Apocalypse happy to kill them for his plans and Magneto turns on Apocalypse, the old Magneto would have let them die to bring about a new world, because he believed in mutants first, this Magneto doesn't because he isn't meant to simply be the antagonist in these films like he was the originals.
But still it devalues his motivations.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 21:38:11 GMT
Whether Marvel has or hasn't produced a movie equal to the Dark Knight or Logan is up for debate. Many consider Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Black Panther, The Avengers, Civil War, etc. to be equal to those films or at least close. I'm not saying they are, but it's subject to opinion. If you've ever read the Infinity Gauntlet comic books, which the movie is based on, you would know that everyone that dies eventually comes back. It's party of the story. They're just being faithful to the source material in that aspect. Do you really expect them to kill off important/franchise-leading characters for the sake of a single film just to satisfy those that only see real stakes when characters permanently die? Marvel is smart in thinking long term. Not like Fox, who does things one film at a time resulting in further foul-ups. Marvel has factually not produced anything up to logan and tdk. that is not up for debate. that is fact. if it is up for debate, you would be able to debate it and also the content will show it. also disney wont try to buy oscars they will earn it like logan and tdk nd they cant meaning it is not debatable
when DOFP was released the content and recpetion of the film said this was the best comic drama since TDK. that was the clue it was only a matter of time before X-Men has a movie that most will consider better than TDK and Logan happened. that was fact. also remember dofp came out with winter solider and everyone said DOFP was the superior movie. so please stop lieing. the facts are not on your side.
Infinity war? this is impossible. since TDK and LOGAN are 90% serious drama they dont need so much cgi.
Black Panther? there was just a debate with first class and black panther lost.
Winter Solider is the closest thing marvel has to maturity but what is the movie next to DOFP or Batman Begins.
Please be consistent dont try and defend infinity war for what you tried to criticise DOFP for choosing to ignore DOFP comics. also speaking of infifnty war, didnt people call it a retargeted version of DOFP?
it is of fact mcu makes only dumb movies and they have one serious one.
lol..avengers? how can you say this is on the level of tdk and logan? avengers is childish comedy movie. avengers wont even get pass X2 or TDKR.
Again with your interpretation of "facts"...
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Post by charzhino on Nov 27, 2018 21:41:39 GMT
Again with your interpretation of "facts"... Every critic/fans list of top CBM have dark knight at the top, including the tournament we had on this forum of best ever cbm. Its as close to fact you're gonna get that no MCU movie has surpassed TDK.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 21:50:51 GMT
Again with your interpretation of "facts"... Every critic/fans list of top CBM have dark knight at the top, including the tournament we had on this forum of best ever cbm. Its as close to fact you're gonna get that no MCU movie has surpassed TDK. I didn't say that any MCU film surpassed The Dark Knight. All I said was that others (not myself) consider some of the MCUs films to be equal to or at least close. Try to read.
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Post by summers8 on Nov 27, 2018 21:53:01 GMT
Marvel has factually not produced anything up to logan and tdk. that is not up for debate. that is fact. if it is up for debate, you would be able to debate it and also the content will show it. also disney wont try to buy oscars they will earn it like logan and tdk nd they cant meaning it is not debatable
when DOFP was released the content and recpetion of the film said this was the best comic drama since TDK. that was the clue it was only a matter of time before X-Men has a movie that most will consider better than TDK and Logan happened. that was fact. also remember dofp came out with winter solider and everyone said DOFP was the superior movie. so please stop lieing. the facts are not on your side.
Infinity war? this is impossible. since TDK and LOGAN are 90% serious drama they dont need so much cgi.
Black Panther? there was just a debate with first class and black panther lost.
Winter Solider is the closest thing marvel has to maturity but what is the movie next to DOFP or Batman Begins.
Please be consistent dont try and defend infinity war for what you tried to criticise DOFP for choosing to ignore DOFP comics. also speaking of infifnty war, didnt people call it a retargeted version of DOFP?
it is of fact mcu makes only dumb movies and they have one serious one.
lol..avengers? how can you say this is on the level of tdk and logan? avengers is childish comedy movie. avengers wont even get pass X2 or TDKR.
Again with your interpretation of "facts"... facts.
a collective opinions from many intellectual comic fans and film makers with backed up film making evidence and the source material.
it is not an opinion to say mcu movies are childish comedy. disney has said so. it is what they do.
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Post by dazz on Nov 27, 2018 21:54:35 GMT
Again with your interpretation of "facts"... Every critic/fans list of top CBM have dark knight at the top, including the tournament we had on this forum of best ever cbm. Its as close to fact you're gonna get that no MCU movie has surpassed TDK. Except in the tournament a MCU film made it to the finals where as Logan did not...bullshit BTW Logan imo better film than TDK, and would have been my no.1 pick for best cbm.
But Summers8 & you said been as good or close to Logan or TDK, like Summers8 inability to grasp fact as a word, you do not seem to know what you actually said, an MCU film does not need to surpass those films but can still be in the same realm as them, critically BP is supposedly the best cbm ever...again bullshit...but critically and fan response does put many MCU films in the same area as TDK & Logan, it's just the MCU films, except BP do not pander to the likes of Oscar bait films, the Oscars is a meaningless bunch of shit, theres a reason why if you do a biographical film or a movie focusing on some US based political or social issue the Oscars lap it up, it's all opinion and the Oscars favour American opinions, I mean when was the last time a foreign film won best picture, or a non-English speaking role one best actor/actress or supporting? you telling me never has a foreign performance of movie been better than an American film or English speaking performance? that's just bullshit.
You two need to learn just because you think what you think doesn't make it fact, it makes it opinion, yes some, probably a lot of people agree, but a lot probably more people disagree with you, learn to fucking deal with it and stop trying to shit talk people for thinking differently, if you did we could have more fun conversations, you pair of tits.
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Post by summers8 on Nov 27, 2018 21:56:16 GMT
Every critic/fans list of top CBM have dark knight at the top, including the tournament we had on this forum of best ever cbm. Its as close to fact you're gonna get that no MCU movie has surpassed TDK. I didn't say that any MCU film surpassed The Dark Knight. All I said was that others (not myself) consider some of the MCUs films to be equal to or at least close. Try to read. what others?
xmen fans?
dc fans? neutral comic fans?
film makers?
you are in a very little minority and are delusional.
the facts shows winter solider is not even better than DOFP or batman begins.
Please remember tdk and logan were anti mcu movies as confirmed by their directors.
So tell us. what makes black panther excellent?
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Post by summers8 on Nov 27, 2018 21:58:39 GMT
Every critic/fans list of top CBM have dark knight at the top, including the tournament we had on this forum of best ever cbm. Its as close to fact you're gonna get that no MCU movie has surpassed TDK. Except in the tournament a MCU film made it to the finals where as Logan did not...bullshit BTW Logan imo better film than TDK, and would have been my no.1 pick for best cbm.
But Summers8 & you said been as good or close to Logan or TDK, like Summers8 inability to grasp fact as a word, you do not seem to know what you actually said, an MCU film does not need to surpass those films but can still be in the same realm as them, critically BP is supposedly the best cbm ever...again bullshit...but critically and fan response does put many MCU films in the same area as TDK & Logan, it's just the MCU films, except BP do not pander to the likes of Oscar bait films, the Oscars is a meaningless bunch of shit, theres a reason why if you do a biographical film or a movie focusing on some US based political or social issue the Oscars lap it up, it's all opinion and the Oscars favour American opinions, I mean when was the last time a foreign film won best picture, or a non-English speaking role one best actor/actress or supporting? you telling me never has a foreign performance of movie been better than an American film or English speaking performance? that's just bullshit.
You two need to learn just because you think what you think doesn't make it fact, it makes it opinion, yes some, probably a lot of people agree, but a lot probably more people disagree with you, learn to fucking deal with it and stop trying to shit talk people for thinking differently, if you did we could have more fun conversations, you pair of tits.
oscar meant a lot when tdk and logan were recognised.
they will be meaningless if black panther is recognised.
that is the difference.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 22:05:09 GMT
Again with your interpretation of "facts"... facts.
a collective opinions from many intellectual comic fans and film makers with backed up film making evidence and the source material.
it is not an opinion to say mcu movies are childish comedy. disney has said so. it is what they do.
That still makes it an opinion. Just one that you've presumably gathered from others. If you want to call it a majority opinion, fine. But it's still not a fact. Yes it is an opinion, yours specifically.
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Post by sostie on Nov 27, 2018 22:06:44 GMT
Except in the tournament a MCU film made it to the finals where as Logan did not...bullshit BTW Logan imo better film than TDK, and would have been my no.1 pick for best cbm.
But Summers8 & you said been as good or close to Logan or TDK, like Summers8 inability to grasp fact as a word, you do not seem to know what you actually said, an MCU film does not need to surpass those films but can still be in the same realm as them, critically BP is supposedly the best cbm ever...again bullshit...but critically and fan response does put many MCU films in the same area as TDK & Logan, it's just the MCU films, except BP do not pander to the likes of Oscar bait films, the Oscars is a meaningless bunch of shit, theres a reason why if you do a biographical film or a movie focusing on some US based political or social issue the Oscars lap it up, it's all opinion and the Oscars favour American opinions, I mean when was the last time a foreign film won best picture, or a non-English speaking role one best actor/actress or supporting? you telling me never has a foreign performance of movie been better than an American film or English speaking performance? that's just bullshit.
You two need to learn just because you think what you think doesn't make it fact, it makes it opinion, yes some, probably a lot of people agree, but a lot probably more people disagree with you, learn to fucking deal with it and stop trying to shit talk people for thinking differently, if you did we could have more fun conversations, you pair of tits.
oscar meant a lot when tdk and logan were recognised.
they will be meaningless if black panther is recognised.
that is the difference.
Their nominations would not be meaningless, and Black Panther would not make them so if it is nominated. Problem is you are comparing the achievements of films at different times. TDK, Logan and Black Panther were up against different films, at different times politically, voted by by different people. These nominations (or possible nominations) mean NOTHING in relation to the other. When a pile of shit like Braveheart won best picture did that make Citezen Kane's nomination meaningless?
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Post by summers8 on Nov 27, 2018 22:10:48 GMT
facts.
a collective opinions from many intellectual comic fans and film makers with backed up film making evidence and the source material.
it is not an opinion to say mcu movies are childish comedy. disney has said so. it is what they do.
That still makes it an opinion. Just one that you've presumably gathered from others. If you want to call it a majority opinion, fine. But it's still not a fact. Yes it is an opinion, yours specifically. so mcu fans dont know people form their opinions of hard evidence of the truth.
I have an opinion black panther had bad cgi effect. why would I have that opinion? because I have seen other movies with superior effects.
it is my opinon X2 and Spiderman 2 have superior effect despite both movies been more than 12 years old.
the difference in opinions. most form opinions from reality and honesty. me.
others don't. they choose to lie and ignore reality. you
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 22:12:16 GMT
I didn't say that any MCU film surpassed The Dark Knight. All I said was that others (not myself) consider some of the MCUs films to be equal to or at least close. Try to read. what others?
xmen fans?
dc fans? neutral comic fans?
film makers?
you are in a very little minority and are delusional.
the facts shows winter solider is not even better than DOFP or batman begins.
Please remember tdk and logan were anti mcu movies as confirmed by their directors.
So tell us. what makes black panther excellent?
Do you speak for everyone? And congratulations on derailing another thread. I think this thread was about the MCU timeline.
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Post by summers8 on Nov 27, 2018 22:17:10 GMT
what others?
xmen fans?
dc fans? neutral comic fans?
film makers?
you are in a very little minority and are delusional.
the facts shows winter solider is not even better than DOFP or batman begins.
Please remember tdk and logan were anti mcu movies as confirmed by their directors.
So tell us. what makes black panther excellent?
Do you speak for everyone? And congratulations on derailing another thread. I think this thread was about the MCU timeline. I speak for intellectual comic book fans.
if you cant list even 5 opinions of what makes black panther even better than first class. then black panther is not an excellent movie on the same level as the highs of tdk or logan.
notice u keep on saying opinions but you don't really have one? its as empty as mcu movies.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 27, 2018 22:25:09 GMT
Do you speak for everyone? And congratulations on derailing another thread. I think this thread was about the MCU timeline. I speak for intellectual comic book fans.
if you cant list even 5 opinions of what makes black panther even better than first class. then black panther is not an excellent movie on the same level as the highs of tdk or logan.
notice u keep on saying opinions but you don't really have one? its as empty as mcu movies.
You speak for yourself. That's all.
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