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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 5:21:40 GMT
I'm excited, I want to see a Joss Whedon directed Batgirl movie. At the same time, I do not want to see and old, bitter, brooding Batgirl. Hopefully they will learn from Wonder Woman and Buffy and the MCU. Light female superheroes don’t work ‘cause they are boring and unrealistic. This is why the biggest selling and most popular female lead comic book series have been Witchblade (higher all time sales than the majority of DC and Marvel superheroes in only 20 years), Red Sonja, Vampirella, Hack/Slash, Supergirl (Linda Danvers), Darkchylde, Fathom, Lady Death, Batgirl (Gail Simone), Birds of Prey, Razor, Shi, Aphrodite IX, The Magdalena, Hellina, Chasity, Avengelyne, Bitch Planet, Rat Queens, Wynonna Earp, Pandora, Wonderland (Zenescope), the Ravening, Nancy In Hell, Black Canary, Painkiller Jane, the Huntress, Pandora, Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose, Saga, Warrior Nun Areala and the recently award winning, Monstress have all had edgy and aggressive leads. I hope the studios have learned their lesson from the failed Supergirl (Helen Slater) movie in the 80s which lead to the character being killed off in comic books and brought back as the Matrix and then Linda Danvers (the biggest selling and longest running series of Supergirl in history) and the drop the Supergirl (or better yet the Super Sidekicks or Mon El) TV show had from the first episode going forward when a lot of Supergirl fans dropped the series for turning Supergirl into a light fluffy geek whose love life is the focus of the show and every character walks over her.
This is why I am looking forward to the ‘Razor’ and ‘Stike’ movies by Rob Cohen ‘cause for the very first time we are guaranteed to get a strong dark badass female comic book character that isn’t toned down and made into an emotional character whose existence revolves around being the love interest to a male character just 'cause she is a female character. A ‘Batgirl From Burnside’ movie would be a repeat of Supergirl with Helen Slater and would never be taken seriously. I know a lot of Batgirl fans who wouldn't watch it if they did that. There is a good reason why Gail's series was the biggest selling Batgirl series of all time and a lot of fans dropped the title when she left. Gail Simone's Batgirl kicked ass and she not only made her an EQUAL to all the male characters in the Bat Universe but she also gave Batgirl her own characters and villains like Alysia, Ricky, Knightfall, Bonebreaker, the Disgraced, Shauna Belzer and Strix (who starts out as a villain and becomes good and joins the Birds of Prey), the Mightnight Man etc instead of just using Batman villains.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 5:24:25 GMT
I am excited. I am a big 'Buffy' fan but what has me even more excited is the movie is being based on Gail Simone's Post Oracle New 52 'Batgirl' Series which is one of my favourite comic book series of all time and what lead to Batgirl becoming the third biggest selling female superhero movie of all time. A 'Batgirl' movie is LONG overdue and there was a 'Batgirl' TV show with Yvonne Craig that was supposed to happen back in the 70s but didn't go through 'cause of the sexism in the industry at the time. However, it was the backlash over the 'Batgirl' TV show not going through which helped the 'Wonder Woman' show go through and this will be the very first time we have got Barbara Gordon/Batgirl on screen since Yvonne Craig played her in the Adam West 'Batman' show.
Robin has been confirmed to be making his debut in 'Batgirl' which I am pretty sure will be Tim Drake/Red Robin and Ricky and Alysia (one of the very first transgender characters in comics and Barbara's best friend and roommate) are set to appear. the Black Canary and Strix are also rumoured to make their debuts which could set up 'Birds of Prey' but the character I would like to see Batgirl face the most is Knightfall and her gang, the Disgraced (which includes Bonebreaker) and for those who never read Gail Simone's series Knightfall was Batgirl's main villain in it and if she isn't in the 'Batgirl' movie she should be in a sequel. I personally think having a female villain in this movie is the right way to go too 'cause apart from the fact we rarely ever get female superhero movies having a female supervillain in the movie would be awesome and they could have Knightfall and the Disgraced as the main villain of this movie based on 'Knightfall Descends' along with Strix who starts out as a villain and then helps Batgirl fight the Disgraced and joins the 'Birds of Prey' followed by James Gordon Jr and the Joker in the sequel based on 'Death of the Family' and the Ventriloquist (Shauna Belzer) with Ferdie, the Midnight Man and Mirror based on 'Wanted' and 'Deadline' with appearances from Black Canary, the Huntress, Batwoman, Nightwing, Red Robin, Catwoman, Katana, Poison Ivy and the Spoiler. It is very unpleasant to read a wall of pink, bold text. Why, Thank you. I didn't realise I needed a male's permission to write in the font and colours I have been writing on forums in for well over a decade as a member, moderator and Admin.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Aug 18, 2017 11:16:53 GMT
It is very unpleasant to read a wall of pink, bold text. Why, Thank you. I didn't realise I needed a male's permission to write in the font and colours I have been writing on forums in for well over a decade as a member, moderator and Admin. Who said anything about "permission"?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 18, 2017 14:12:41 GMT
Wow. Where are you getting all this info from? Link please... Not only do I have a link I have a whole thread of them which comprises of almost every single article about the 'Batgirl' movie and tweets from Gail Simone's Twitter account about it since it was announced. Hope this helps you. s15.zetaboards.com/Colliding_Worlds/topic/10164899/1/Again... wow. Thank you.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 18, 2017 14:51:30 GMT
I'm excited, I want to see a Joss Whedon directed Batgirl movie. At the same time, I do not want to see and old, bitter, brooding Batgirl. Hopefully they will learn from Wonder Woman and Buffy and the MCU. Light female superheroes don’t work ‘cause they are boring and unrealistic. This is why the biggest selling and most popular female lead comic book series have been Witchblade (higher all time sales than the majority of DC and Marvel superheroes in only 20 years), Red Sonja, Vampirella, Hack/Slash, Supergirl (Linda Danvers), Darkchylde, Fathom, Lady Death, Batgirl (Gail Simone), Birds of Prey, Razor, Shi, Aphrodite IX, The Magdalena, Hellina, Chasity, Avengelyne, Bitch Planet, Rat Queens, Wynonna Earp, Pandora, Wonderland (Zenescope), the Ravening, Nancy In Hell, Black Canary, Painkiller Jane, the Huntress, Pandora, Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose, Saga, Warrior Nun Areala and the recently award winning, Monstress have all had edgy and aggressive leads. I hope the studios have learned their lesson from the failed Supergirl (Helen Slater) movie in the 80s which lead to the character being killed off in comic books and brought back as the Matrix and then Linda Danvers (the biggest selling and longest running series of Supergirl in history) and the drop the Supergirl (or better yet the Super Sidekicks or Mon El) TV show had from the first episode going forward when a lot of Supergirl fans dropped the series for turning Supergirl into a light fluffy geek whose love life is the focus of the show and every character walks over her.
This is why I am looking forward to the ‘Razor’ and ‘Stike’ movies by Rob Cohen ‘cause for the very first time we are guaranteed to get a strong dark badass female comic book character that isn’t toned down and made into an emotional character whose existence revolves around being the love interest to a male character just 'cause she is a female character. A ‘Batgirl From Burnside’ movie would be a repeat of Supergirl with Helen Slater and would never be taken seriously. I know a lot of Batgirl fans who wouldn't watch it if they did that. There is a good reason why Gail's series was the biggest selling Batgirl series of all time and a lot of fans dropped the title when she left. Gail Simone's Batgirl kicked ass and she not only made her an EQUAL to all the male characters in the Bat Universe but she also gave Batgirl her own characters and villains like Alysia, Ricky, Knightfall, Bonebreaker, the Disgraced, Shauna Belzer and Strix (who starts out as a villain and becomes good and joins the Birds of Prey), the Mightnight Man etc instead of just using Batman villains. 99% of the potential movie audience has no idea what you are talking about. Most of them still believe super heroes should be the way they were when comic books actually sold in large numbers i.e. heroic, uplifting, and fun. Most previous female super hero movies failed because they were bad movies not because they weren't dark enough. Elektra was quite dark and still flopped. More tickets are sold to a block buster movie in one weekend then there are comic books sold in North America in a year. Today's relatively tiny comic book reader community really shouldn't expect studios to always follow their advice on how to make movies. When watching a CBM, I think about comic books about as much as I think about Ian Fleming novels while watching a James Bond movie, in other words not at all. And let's be honest. Comics like Vampirella, Witchblade, and Red Sonja sell because the heroines are practically naked and there is a significant segment of the comic book community that goes for that (call them the Howard Wolowitz market). The Wonder Woman movie was very good and very popular and had serious themes but the hero was not dark and brooding and depressed all the time. She was heroic and presented an image that others could look up to and follow and be inspired by (like most of the MCU movies). Also, she wasn't toned down or turned into an emotional character who revolves around a love interest but she also wasn't turned into an emotional basket case either like some of the DCEU characters.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 5:45:57 GMT
Light female superheroes don’t work ‘cause they are boring and unrealistic. This is why the biggest selling and most popular female lead comic book series have been Witchblade (higher all time sales than the majority of DC and Marvel superheroes in only 20 years), Red Sonja, Vampirella, Hack/Slash, Supergirl (Linda Danvers), Darkchylde, Fathom, Lady Death, Batgirl (Gail Simone), Birds of Prey, Razor, Shi, Aphrodite IX, The Magdalena, Hellina, Chasity, Avengelyne, Bitch Planet, Rat Queens, Wynonna Earp, Pandora, Wonderland (Zenescope), the Ravening, Nancy In Hell, Black Canary, Painkiller Jane, the Huntress, Pandora, Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose, Saga, Warrior Nun Areala and the recently award winning, Monstress have all had edgy and aggressive leads. I hope the studios have learned their lesson from the failed Supergirl (Helen Slater) movie in the 80s which lead to the character being killed off in comic books and brought back as the Matrix and then Linda Danvers (the biggest selling and longest running series of Supergirl in history) and the drop the Supergirl (or better yet the Super Sidekicks or Mon El) TV show had from the first episode going forward when a lot of Supergirl fans dropped the series for turning Supergirl into a light fluffy geek whose love life is the focus of the show and every character walks over her.
This is why I am looking forward to the ‘Razor’ and ‘Stike’ movies by Rob Cohen ‘cause for the very first time we are guaranteed to get a strong dark badass female comic book character that isn’t toned down and made into an emotional character whose existence revolves around being the love interest to a male character just 'cause she is a female character. A ‘Batgirl From Burnside’ movie would be a repeat of Supergirl with Helen Slater and would never be taken seriously. I know a lot of Batgirl fans who wouldn't watch it if they did that. There is a good reason why Gail's series was the biggest selling Batgirl series of all time and a lot of fans dropped the title when she left. Gail Simone's Batgirl kicked ass and she not only made her an EQUAL to all the male characters in the Bat Universe but she also gave Batgirl her own characters and villains like Alysia, Ricky, Knightfall, Bonebreaker, the Disgraced, Shauna Belzer and Strix (who starts out as a villain and becomes good and joins the Birds of Prey), the Mightnight Man etc instead of just using Batman villains. 99% of the potential movie audience has no idea what you are talking about. Most of them still believe super heroes should be the way they were when comic books actually sold in large numbers i.e. heroic, uplifting, and fun. Most previous female super hero movies failed because they were bad movies not because they weren't dark enough. Elektra was quite dark and still flopped. More tickets are sold to a block buster movie in one weekend then there are comic books sold in North America in a year. Today's relatively tiny comic book reader community really shouldn't expect studios to always follow their advice on how to make movies. When watching a CBM, I think about comic books about as much as I think about Ian Fleming novels while watching a James Bond movie, in other words not at all. And let's be honest. Comics like Vampirella, Witchblade, and Red Sonja sell because the heroines are practically naked and there is a significant segment of the comic book community that goes for that (call them the Howard Wolowitz market). The Wonder Woman movie was very good and very popular and had serious themes but the hero was not dark and brooding and depressed all the time. She was heroic and presented an image that others could look up to and follow and be inspired by (like most of the MCU movies). Also, she wasn't toned down or turned into an emotional character who revolves around a love interest but she also wasn't turned into an emotional basket case either like some of the DCEU characters. No offence but I completely disagree with you ‘cause I knew a lot of people who read ‘Witchblade’ in the 90s and 00s and wanted a ‘Witchblade’ movie. ‘Witchblade’ despite not being a DC or Marvel title much like Spawn was one of the most popular comic book series of all time and according to the actual graphic novels sold over 140 million worldwide which is more comics than every single superhero has sold in DC and Marvel apart from Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and Captain America but did it get a big screen movie? No ‘cause it is a comic book series with a FEMALE lead and for the past 30 years Hollywood has made movies of every big selling male superhero from Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Captain America, Spawn, The Crow, The Mask, Ant Man, Faust: Love of the Damned, Green Lantern etc but skipped over the female lead comic book series and made the superhero movie genre into a complete penis fest despite there being just as many female lead comic book series as male lead series and many of them having higher sales than the superheroes given their own movies.
Every single one of the titles I mentioned above HAD movies in development and the majority didn’t go through ‘cause the studios wouldn’t take a chance on a female lead comic book movie which was even confirmed by actual comic book writers such as Randy Queen who had John Carpenter set to direct a ‘Darkchylde’ movie which didn’t go through due to sexism. Ron Marz even said that he could write a comic book series that went on to sell a billion copies but if it had a female lead not to expect to see it on screen anytime soon. Peter David tried to make a ‘Supergirl/Linda Danvers’ movie in the early 00s with Alicia Silverstone and a number of people within DC thought it had a chance of being successful and could attract fans of Buffy, Resident Evil and Underworld ‘cause it was Horror but one of the heads of Warner Bros ended up turning it down ‘cause they didn’t want an edgier Supergirl on screen than Superman. Then there was the ‘Witchblade’ movie that had Angelina Jolie and Morgan Freeman attached to it that could have been a big hit especially with the creator, Marc Silvestri writing it but again didn’t go through due to sexism.
You say 99 percent of the movie audience doesn’t know those names but 99 percent of the movie audience didn’t know who Iron Man, Thor, Green Lantern, The Crow, Spawn, Green Arrow, the Flash, Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy etc were until they got given their own movies or appeared in TV shows so how are those titles expected to be known when Hollywood is skewed to only making male lead comic book movies and ignoring the sales of female lead series? For years Hollywood have used the failure of ‘Supergirl’, ‘Catwoman’ and Elektra’ as an excuse not to make female lead comic book movies when the truth was a lot of those movies failed ‘cause of them and should have never been made. ‘Catwoman’ used a script for a completely different movie which had some changes made to it and the ‘Catwoman’ name slapped on it when it became apparent Tim Burton and Michelle Pfieffer were not doing the original ‘Catwoman’ movie that was going to spinoff from ‘Batman Returns. How would Batman go if they made a movie about a guy named Tom that could turn into a bat ‘cause that is how much the ‘Catwoman’ movie had in common with Selina Kyle.
A number of people working on the ‘Supergirl’ movie said it was rushed and was never taken seriously, the 80s movie of ‘Red Sonja’ was written as a parody, ‘Sheenah: Queen of the Jungle’ was poorly written and only made to get Tanya Roberts naked, ‘Barb Wire’ was soft porn – the same as Black Scorpion and ‘Elektra’ spunoff a flop that was so bad Ben Affleck called it one of the worst movies he was ever a part of and should have never been made. Every single female superhero movie that has failed was ‘cause it was poorly written but the studios chose to use that as an excuse not to make female lead movies and blamed the failure of the gender and the actresses instead of the writers and directors. The ‘Wonder Woman’ show with Lynda Carter was very popular in the late 70s and 80s but did we get a movie of it in the 80s? 90s? 00s? No. They made everybody wait around 40 years to see Wonder Woman (the highest selling female superhero of all time) on screen again while lesser knowns comic book heroes like the Mask, the Crow, Spawn, Steel, Faust, Nick Fury and even Howard the Duck all got a ton of movies. Heck, the Crow got given 4 movies and Blade got 3 and is a male knockoff of Vampirella and the first movie copied ‘Vampirella vs The Cult Of Chaos.’
Without TV shows, cartoons, movies or radio shows both Batman and Superman wouldn’t have been anywhere near as popular as they become either ‘cause it is Hollywood who ultimately decides what becomes a well-known property and they decided to make movies of all the highest selling comics as long as they didn’t have female leads and screw over all female superhero fans. Just look at the MCU – it has taken 20 movies to even make one movie of Marvel’s biggest selling female superhero, Carol Danvers who has higher all time sales than a number of superheroes they have made movies of and why is that? Because Ike Perlmutter refused to let them make female superhero movies or have any female villains which is something Joss Whedon complained about and why we also have never had a Spider Woman movie (Marvel’s second biggest selling female superhero) but had 6 Spider-Man movies. Yes, movies sell more than comic books but when the majority of the biggest selling female lead comic book series have never been given their own movies while countless male comic book series have how do you expect them to be well known?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 5:53:59 GMT
It is only now we have movies like Batgirl, Wonder Woman 2, Painkiller Jane, Razor, Strike, Silver and Black, Witchblade, Avegeleyene, the Pro, Gotham City Sirens etc on the way and Geoff Johns said he has plans to bring more of DC’s biggest female superheroes to screen after the success of the recent Wonder Woman movie which would most likely include Supergirl, Birds of Prey, Black Canary, Zatanna, Raven, Starfire, Batwoman, Power Girl etc but the only reason that is changing is ‘cause Hollywood is slowly changing which is about damn time ‘cause there are a LOT of female lead series that deserve their chance to shine on screen and were robbed of it. Not everyone wants a penis fest – a lot of my male friends even admit the genre has become this and want more female superheroes. Also not everybody wants light comedic movies. I am not saying light superheroes are bad and I understand why some people like them but as a Horror fan I want to see more Horror superheroes (which many of the biggest selling female comic book characters are) on screen and that is a genre that has never been fully explored outside of the Crow.
The late Wes Craven called ‘Hack/Slash' a masterpiece. Could he make a 'Hack/Slash' movie? No 'cause it had a female lead. John Carpenter said when he was working on the ‘Darkchylde’ movie ‘Darkchylde’ was one of the best Horror series he had read and Airel had the potential to be one of the most popular female Horror characters of all time and the likes of Stephen King and Tobe Hooper have all praised a lot of Horror comic book series and said that they are better than a lot of the Horror movies being made today. ‘Razor’ will be the very first Horror superhero film we have had since ‘Blade’ and I think we need a balance of light and dark films in the comic genre for fans of both and by dark I am not talking about dark in tone like ‘Batman vs Superman’ which I didn’t like that much. I mean dark as in Horror and we are not seeing that but most of all what we are not seeing is a balance of male and female characters. Female representation shouldn’t be a problem in Hollywood now especially in the comic book genre when we have such a large amount of successful female lead series and neither should LGBT representation when there are a lot of series with LGBT leads such as Batwoman, Hack/Slash, Red Sonja, Witchblade (Danielle), Painkiller Jane, the Ravening, Sunstone, Insexts, Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose, Hellina etc.
And as for Witchblade, Red Sonja and Vampirella being practically naked sex sells and I don’t see a problem with sexuality especially when the female character owns it since it is empowering and liberating. If I was a superhero and had powers I would wear sexy costumes too 'cause I love Cosplay!! A lot of my hetero friends only go to see 'Thor' for Chris Hemsworth and it wasn’t that long ago an ad with Chris Hemsworth talking while they showed a beach got a heap of complaints ‘cause it didn’t have Chris walking topless on the beach. Same is true with Robert Downy Jr and Chris Evans who largely sell on their sex appeal but when it comes to sex appeal if people were only interested in that they could have easily went and bought a Playboy magazine or bought one of the comic book series that had nudity and sex scenes in it like ‘Pandora’ or ‘Threshold’ that sold nowhere near the amount ‘Witchblade’ and ‘Red Sonja have. Mind you the ‘Witchblade’ costume can easily be changed as seen in the TV show of ‘Witchblade’ which still holds the title of being one of the highest rated TV shows in history to be cancelled due to Yancy Butler’s alcohol problems.
The reason a series like ‘Witchblade’ outsold so many DC and Marvel superheroes was ‘cause it was completely different than anything that had been done before (and still is with comic book movies) and blended the superhero genre with crime, horror, fantasy and Sci Fi elements and I have no doubt a ‘Witchblade’ universe done right on screen with the Darkness, Aphrodite IX, Cyber Force, The Magdalena, The Angelus, the Necromancer and Switch could work and be successful and so do a lot of my friends ‘cause they are not the standard type of superhero movies DC and Marvel are doing and delivers an alternative for viewers. ‘Red Sonja’ sold over 100 million and has one of the largest female and LGBT followings of a comic book series as Gail Simone and Amy Chu have both pointed out and a large part of that is ‘cause Red Sonja is a strong sexy bad ass female warrior who kicks ass which is something we never get on screen. Yes, the Howard Wolowitz market as you put it may play a part in it but just look at ‘Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose’ which had a larger female following than male following as pointed out below.
Sorry if this is long but I have a lot to say on the subject and I have no doubt if Wonder Woman, Witchblade, Red Sonja, Hack/Slash, Darkchylde etc had male leads with their popularity and sales they would have had dozens of movies by now. 'Wonder Woman' can finally change that now and to quote.
moviepilot.com/p/marvel-fails-its-female-superheroes/4302449
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 6:08:19 GMT
Not only do I have a link I have a whole thread of them which comprises of almost every single article about the 'Batgirl' movie and tweets from Gail Simone's Twitter account about it since it was announced. Hope this helps you. s15.zetaboards.com/Colliding_Worlds/topic/10164899/1/ Again... wow. Thank you. You're welcome. I am really looking forward to the 'Batgirl' movie and I'd say it is the superhero movie I want to see the most along with Nightwing, Razor, Painkiller Jane, Spawn, Wonder Woman 2, the Batman, Avegeleyne and Captain Marvel. Hopefully it is a big success and it leads to a 'Birds of Prey' movie too 'cause that would be awesome!!
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Post by geezer on Aug 19, 2017 12:47:44 GMT
I'm psyched. I'm also curious as to who will be cast in the title role. My preference would be for a newcomer. It will probably be someone well known enough to generate interest. I'm curious what the budget will be. Bring back Alicia Silverstone! Maybe she can shave this time!
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 19, 2017 22:57:35 GMT
I don't know where you ever got the idea that I was against there being more female super hero movies. Quite the opposite. I agree with most of what you say about female super hero movies. My point was entirely about the tone of movies. Whether the movies are male or female lead, the DCEU will not achieve the success that it desires by making dark, depressing, and brooding super hero movies. I think they have learned this lesson. The 2 DCEU movies that exceeded their expectations were Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. One was an action comedy and the other was an uplifting female super hero movie. Judging by the trailers for Justice League I think they have learned to lighten up. So, hopefully Batgirl will also reach that balance.
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