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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 14:47:00 GMT
I decided to start this thread after reading another poster's thoughts on the mind of believers. This was my post to him.
So, if you started out raised in religion, and eventually ended up agnostic, atheist, et al, how did it start? Was there a specific incident that triggered it or a long period of questioning small things, leading to bigger things?
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Father Jack
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Post by Father Jack on Mar 31, 2017 14:54:23 GMT
Religion in any form was never once mentioned in my upbringing in my family, so I can't answer Rachel, sorry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 14:56:01 GMT
You can be both faith based and fact based.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 15:03:02 GMT
Religion in any form was never once mentioned in my upbringing in my family, so I can't answer Rachel, sorry. That's ok, thanks for getting me started.
My best friend was never a believer, also. The whole thing just mystifies her, especially the whole rapture thing in christianity. She counts on me to explain some of these things to her and I can't.
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Post by general313 on Mar 31, 2017 15:07:13 GMT
I decided to start this thread after reading another poster's thoughts on the mind of believers. This was my post to him.
So, if you started out raised in religion, and eventually ended up agnostic, atheist, et al, how did it start? Was there a specific incident that triggered it or a long period of questioning small things, leading to bigger things? For me it started when a youth minister at my church started berating the parishioners in the balcony that he perceived were not being attentive enough. He said that the devil hung out in the balcony. When he said that, it all of a sudden became clear to me how ridiculous it was to blame the devil for human failings. That was just the beginning. That led to me disbelieving the devil as the cause of many problems caused by human error, then to disbelieving in the devil altogether.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 15:11:05 GMT
You can be both faith based and fact based. Some seem to do that - my internist, for example, is educated in science but his father was a Methodist minister - but I don't understand how he still believes when he sees test results, knows that bacteria becomes resistant to antibiotics and sees his aging patients die in spite of a room full of praying believers.
How can one learned in science believe that a supreme being will upend all the natural laws to intervene in just one life?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 15:15:11 GMT
I decided to start this thread after reading another poster's thoughts on the mind of believers. This was my post to him.
So, if you started out raised in religion, and eventually ended up agnostic, atheist, et al, how did it start? Was there a specific incident that triggered it or a long period of questioning small things, leading to bigger things? For me it started when a youth minister at my church started berating the parishioners in the balcony that he perceived were not being attentive enough. He said that the devil hung out in the balcony. When he said that, it all of a sudden became clear to me how ridiculous it was to blame the devil for human failings. That was just the beginning. That led to me disbelieving the devil as the cause of many problems caused by human error, then to disbelieving in the devil altogether. Wow, that's a hell of a starter, every pun intended!
Thanks for the reply!
Edit: your youth minister story triggered a memory of the youth minister, Ed, at my church. I had brought a backslidden Catholic to a youth meeting at our evangelical Southern Baptist church. Ed, or 'Mr. Ed' as we called him, came up to my friend and said, "Hi, I'm Ed; are you washed in the blood of the lamb?"
My friend left skid marks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:23:03 GMT
You can be both faith based and fact based. Some seem to do that - my internist, for example, is educated in science but his father was a Methodist minister - but I don't understand how he still believes when he sees test results, knows that bacteria becomes resistant to antibiotics and sees his aging patients die in spite of a room full of praying believers.
How can one learned in science believe that a supreme being will upend all the natural laws to intervene in just one life?
Some of the greatest scientists in human history (Newton, for example) believed in God. Science and faith aren't mutually exclusive.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 31, 2017 15:24:33 GMT
I don't quite fit a "faith to facts" story but here's my story for what it's worth.
I was raised Catholic and didn't question that until I was a teenager. I wouldn't say I had faith - I just took what I was taught as fact as fact. Only really when I read a bit more about other religions and learned a bit more about history did I consider there was no reason to take any particular religion as fact. I still believed in God in my teens, but not that any religion had him right.
Moving into my 20s, I took a bit of a Russell's Teapot attitude to God. Until someone proves such a thing, then it's silly to believe in it. I became a strong atheist who had no time for any sort of religious belief.
Starting with my late 20s, I re-evaluated faith a bit. I think it's fine so long as it's acknowledged as faith and not fact. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, well that's great too. Just don't assume your faith should take precedence over anyone else's or lack thereof and a lot of the problems of religion melt away. The true danger of religion is when it is taught not as faith but as fact. In my opinion anyway.
I should probably point out that I never encountered the religion vs science clash that pushes some away from religion. We were taught science with no reference to God whatsoever (bar one science teacher who told us how condoms work and then said we were never to use them, but she was the exception rather than the rule).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:25:39 GMT
You can be both faith based and fact based. In different areas of life, sure. Not about one topic though. Faith based and fact based are direct opposites.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:31:58 GMT
You can be both faith based and fact based. In different areas of life, sure. Not about one topic though. Faith based and fact based are direct opposites. You can both believe in God and respect/believe in currently accepted science. There is no wall of separation there. Some of history's greatest scientists were people of faith.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 31, 2017 15:32:05 GMT
The two don't really conflict.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:35:42 GMT
In different areas of life, sure. Not about one topic though. Faith based and fact based are direct opposites. You can both believe in God and respect/believe in currently accepted science. You can, yes. But you can only do so by ceasing to apply scientific skepticism when you think about god. In much the same way, a scientist could use the scientific method all day long and then when he gets home he could cease to apply that method and say "I choose to believe that invisible unicorns exist." They have. But a thing does not become scientific because a scientist believes it. When those scientists chose to believe in god, they chose to stop being scientists with respect to that belief, and start being faith believers instead. One cannot be both at the same time regarding the same thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:39:43 GMT
Science cannot address whether God exists or not. They are two completely different realms. Science is about figuring out how the world works. Theology/philosophy tries to get to the "why" behind the "how."
So you can absolutely be a person of faith and still accept/appreciate science. Just as people who were far smarter than you (and me) did.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 15:47:10 GMT
I don't quite fit a "faith to facts" story but here's my story for what it's worth. I was raised Catholic and didn't question that until I was a teenager. I wouldn't say I had faith - I just took what I was taught as fact as fact. Only really when I read a bit more about other religions and learned a bit more about history did I consider there was no reason to take any particular religion as fact. I still believed in God in my teens, but not that any religion had him right. Moving into my 20s, I took a bit of a Russell's Teapot attitude to God. Until someone proves such a thing, then it's silly to believe in it. I became a strong atheist who had no time for any sort of religious belief. Starting with my late 20s, I re-evaluated faith a bit. I think it's fine so long as it's acknowledged as faith and not fact. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, well that's great too. Just don't assume your faith should take precedence over anyone else's or lack thereof and a lot of the problems of religion melt away. The true danger of religion is when it is taught not as faith but as fact. In my opinion anyway. I should probably point out that I never encountered the religion vs science clash that pushes some away from religion. We were taught science with no reference to God whatsoever (bar one science teacher who told us how condoms work and then said we were never to use them, but she was the exception rather than the rule). Thanks for your story!
I agree that the true danger of religion is when it is taught not as faith but as fact, and people are willing to kill other people because they don't agree on some point of faith, or the 'others' don't believe in the same god, etc.
I saw a documentary on PBS, "Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero", one year after the towers were destroyed, and one of the comments made by one of the people interviewed was "Religion drove those planes into those buildings, it cannot be denied." If you can get your hands on it, it is an amazing documentary, because some people said it destroyed their faith, and others said that is strengthened their faith. It covered all points of view; obviously it ended in a question, but the different responses are very interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:57:50 GMT
Science cannot address whether God exists or not. They are two completely different realms. Science is about figuring out how the world works. Theology/philosophy tries to get to the "why" behind the "how." So you can absolutely be a person of faith and still accept/appreciate science. Just as people who were far smarter than you (and me) did. Science cannot (necessarily) address whether god exists or not... it can damn sure address whether elements of theology are likely, like woman from a rib, Noah's flood, etc. These are where the conflict of science and religion are.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:01:36 GMT
I decided to start this thread after reading another poster's thoughts on the mind of believers. This was my post to him.
So, if you started out raised in religion, and eventually ended up agnostic, atheist, et al, how did it start? Was there a specific incident that triggered it or a long period of questioning small things, leading to bigger things? I was a solid bible toter until my late teens, then I began to find that many of my questions were resulting in dead ends. I realized there's a greater path to the possible divine in all the books of the world, and the out in the world and nature itself than the interpretations of a single book from a pulpit in a brick and mortar building
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:01:45 GMT
Science cannot address whether God exists or not. They are two completely different realms. Science is about figuring out how the world works. Theology/philosophy tries to get to the "why" behind the "how." So you can absolutely be a person of faith and still accept/appreciate science. Just as people who were far smarter than you (and me) did. Science cannot (necessarily) address whether god exists or not... it can damn sure address whether elements of theology are likely, like woman from a rib, Noah's flood, etc. These are where the conflict of science and religion are. Only if you insist on taking Jewish mythology as 100% literal historical fact (which the original authors of Genesis did not).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:03:29 GMT
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 16:06:51 GMT
Science cannot (necessarily) address whether god exists or not... it can damn sure address whether elements of theology are likely, like woman from a rib, Noah's flood, etc. These are where the conflict of science and religion are. Only if you insist on taking Jewish mythology as 100% literal historical fact (which the original authors of Genesis did not).And you know this how?
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