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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:08:51 GMT
I know that a lot of people do. Both fundamentalists and anti-theists love to think of the Bible was one singular book rather than a library of various literary works. So it's "either 'the Bible' is literal history or it's not." The truth is that you have to figure out what piece of literature you're looking at, and what genre it's in. There are books of mythology, history, poetry, biographies, etc. It's not a flat book.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:08:55 GMT
Science cannot address whether God exists or not. They are two completely different realms. Then you agree with me that belief in god cannot be a scientific position, and anybody who does so is not acting in a scientific manner. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:10:29 GMT
Only if you insist on taking Jewish mythology as 100% literal historical fact (which the original authors of Genesis did not).And you know this how? Because ancient people didn't view history the way modern humans do. They weren't concerned with writing down meticulous details, but rather exploring themes and ideas that related to their current state and the audience they were addressing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:11:02 GMT
Science cannot address whether God exists or not. They are two completely different realms. Then you agree with me that belief in god cannot be a scientific position, and anybody who does so is not acting in a scientific manner. Thank you. Never said it was.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:12:06 GMT
I know that a lot of people do. Both fundamentalists and anti-theists love to think of the Bible was one singular book rather than a library of various literary works. So it's "either 'the Bible' is literal history or it's not." The truth is that you have to figure out what piece of literature you're looking at, and what genre it's in. There are books of mythology, history, poetry, biographies, etc. It's not a flat book. Yet the point is if one believes these myths in lieu of scientific evidence, their faith is excluding science. Therefore, although a belief in god and science aren't mutually exclusive, religious beliefs and science quite often are.
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Post by general313 on Mar 31, 2017 16:12:30 GMT
For me it started when a youth minister at my church started berating the parishioners in the balcony that he perceived were not being attentive enough. He said that the devil hung out in the balcony. When he said that, it all of a sudden became clear to me how ridiculous it was to blame the devil for human failings. That was just the beginning. That led to me disbelieving the devil as the cause of many problems caused by human error, then to disbelieving in the devil altogether. Wow, that's a hell of a starter, every pun intended!
Thanks for the reply!
Edit: your youth minister story triggered a memory of the youth minister, Ed, at my church. I had brought a backslidden Catholic to a youth meeting at our evangelical Southern Baptist church. Ed, or 'Mr. Ed' as we called him, came up to my friend and said, "Hi, I'm Ed; are you washed in the blood of the lamb?"
My friend left skid marks.
Hah! I guess we owe thanks to these youth ministers for helping us disentangle from the faith!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:12:57 GMT
Good. Because you would have been wrong, and we don't want that.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 16:17:19 GMT
Because ancient people didn't view history the way modern humans do. They weren't concerned with writing down meticulous details, but rather exploring themes and ideas that related to their current state and the audience they were addressing. Again, and you know this HOW? Did they leave a footnote somewhere in genesis that states this? They were ignorant nomads that thought the world was flat. I find it hard to believe that they were "exploring themes and ideas that related to their current state and the audience they were addressing." Scratch that, it's impossible to believe that.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 31, 2017 16:26:00 GMT
Sorry, I can't answer this as I have never been a believer. But I have never identified with atheism either. I was and have always been what you can say 'disinterested' in faith or atheism. It is interesting because I grew up with cousins who also have been like me throughout. But our family elders were and are religious folks. But they never tried to push religion on kids.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Mar 31, 2017 16:28:34 GMT
Religion in any form was never once mentioned in my upbringing in my family, so I can't answer Rachel, sorry. Same here. And I didn't learn almost anything about religions until I was well into my teens. At that point, when i first heard any detail about religious beliefs I thought it must have been a practical joke.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 31, 2017 16:31:11 GMT
If this is asking those of us who used to be religious when we transitioned to non-, then it was college for me. Particularly an interest in astronomy, which led to a more remote perspective on our existence, which led to questions that had no answers but let me unwilling to buy into much of what's described in the Bible or countless other holy books.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 16:36:30 GMT
Sorry, I can't answer this as I have never been a believer. But I have never identified with atheism either. I was and have always been what you can say 'disinterested' in faith or atheism. It is interesting because I grew up with cousins who also have been like me throughout. But our family elders were and are religious folks. But they never tried to push religion on kids. Interesting; my family's main pursuit in life was making sure all of us were saved, early-on. You were lucky to have such a family. And it makes you a good impartial moderator!
I am interested, though, on how you view the conflict that religious strife brings to the world. If everyone was like you, and no one came to fisticuffs over whose faith is right or wrong, the world would be a lot happier place.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:36:57 GMT
I know that a lot of people do. Both fundamentalists and anti-theists love to think of the Bible was one singular book rather than a library of various literary works. So it's "either 'the Bible' is literal history or it's not." The truth is that you have to figure out what piece of literature you're looking at, and what genre it's in. There are books of mythology, history, poetry, biographies, etc. It's not a flat book. Yet the point is if one believes these myths in lieu of scientific evidence, their faith is excluding science. Therefore, although a belief in god and science aren't mutually exclusive, religious beliefs and science quite often are.But that was never what I was talking about...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:38:18 GMT
Because ancient people didn't view history the way modern humans do. They weren't concerned with writing down meticulous details, but rather exploring themes and ideas that related to their current state and the audience they were addressing. Again, and you know this HOW? Did they leave a footnote somewhere in genesis that states this? They were ignorant nomads that thought the world was flat. I find it hard to believe that they were "exploring themes and ideas that related to their current state and the audience they were addressing." Scratch that, it's impossible to believe that. Because that's how ALL ancient peoples treated history. Jews. Greeks. Romans. Read a book.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 31, 2017 16:38:22 GMT
Yet the point is if one believes these myths in lieu of scientific evidence, their faith is excluding science. Therefore, although a belief in god and science aren't mutually exclusive, religious beliefs and science quite often are. But that was never what I was talking about... Totally OT, but do you know there's talk of Dennis leaving the show? It would kill it for me. Hands down my favorite character.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:40:31 GMT
But that was never what I was talking about... Totally OT, but do you know there's talk of Dennis leaving the show? It would kill it for me. Hands down my favorite character. It might kill the show (IMO). I think Frank and Dee could be removed (Frank more so than Dee), but you have to have three main guys for the show to work.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 31, 2017 16:45:46 GMT
Totally OT, but do you know there's talk of Dennis leaving the show? It would kill it for me. Hands down my favorite character. It might kill the show (IMO). I think Frank and Dee could be removed (Frank more so than Dee), but you have to have three main guys for the show to work. It wouldn't be the same show without Dennis' subtle-but-not-too-subtle serial killer vibe, narcissism and "I'm the smart one" schemes. Him pushing his own head down to give himself a dream-blowjob is still one of the best LOL moments for me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:50:25 GMT
Yet the point is if one believes these myths in lieu of scientific evidence, their faith is excluding science. Therefore, although a belief in god and science aren't mutually exclusive, religious beliefs and science quite often are. But that was never what I was talking about... Actually you made references such as "Some of history's greatest scientists were people of faith." "You can be both faith based and fact based." The overwhelming majority of people of faith, including those scientists, hold to religious doctrines which fly in the face of science... ... so yeah, it was.
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Post by blade on Mar 31, 2017 16:56:34 GMT
But that was never what I was talking about... Actually you made references such as "Some of history's greatest scientists were people of faith." "You can be both faith based and fact based." The overwhelming majority of people of faith, including those scientists, hold to religious doctrines which fly in the face of science... ... so yeah, it was. irony
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:58:24 GMT
Actually you made references such as "Some of history's greatest scientists were people of faith." "You can be both faith based and fact based." The overwhelming majority of people of faith, including those scientists, hold to religious doctrines which fly in the face of science... ... so yeah, it was. irony ^^^^ apparently still doesn't understand the word ^^^^
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