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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 23, 2019 0:50:56 GMT
Why do Christians worship a God who tortures those that don't kiss his ass? Whatever happened to live-and-let-live?
Can't I just buy an indulgence?
And what about the 3 billion people on this earth who have never even heard of Jesus? Are they doomed to burn for all eternity just because they have never been told about Jesus?
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Post by Cody™ on Jan 23, 2019 1:04:31 GMT
I doubt there are 3 billion people on this earth who have never heard of Christ.
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Post by general313 on Jan 23, 2019 1:06:09 GMT
When you create the universe and every living thing in it, you get to make the rules, no? Sure, but that doesn't automatically mean you're a just god.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 1:07:06 GMT
When you create the universe and every living thing in it, you get to make the rules, no? And if the rules you create are unjust, people get to point it out and make judgments of your character based on it, right?
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 23, 2019 1:15:32 GMT
See the brighter side, it's not the old days anymore where you face inquisition for not believing (of course that's still happening in some part of the Islamic world). One can leave the religions they don't like in most parts of the world. Slowly and steadily Christianity is changing or drying. At least some sects such as Unitarian Universalists have less shocking teachings and are trying to make their religion somewhat suitable for the majority of secular people. There are no Christians burning witches anymore (unless in some obsolete and rare cases in places where governments are not very strong). The thing is that religion is going to go through a change. Of course, Islam is a concern but Christianity is dying fast in the white world. They somewhat retain their power in the non-white world but I am assuming more economic development in Africa and Asia and South America will also lead to Christianity and eventually Islam dying in other parts of the world too.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 23, 2019 1:20:46 GMT
When you create the universe and every living thing in it, you get to make the rules, no? And if the rules you create are unjust, people get to point it out and make judgments of your character based on it, right? Yes. That's what hell is for.
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 23, 2019 1:30:27 GMT
When you create the universe and every living thing in it, you get to make the rules, no? The question then becomes: do the creations have the ability to independently determine right from wrong, OR is right and wrong solely determined on the basis of whatever the deity happens to declare.
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 23, 2019 1:31:16 GMT
When you create the universe and every living thing in it, you get to make the rules, no? Sure, but that doesn't automatically mean you're a just god. The God of the bible certainly is not.
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Post by general313 on Jan 23, 2019 1:35:59 GMT
When you create the universe and every living thing in it, you get to make the rules, no? The question then becomes: do the creations have the ability to independently determine right from wrong, OR is right and wrong solely determined on the basis of whatever the deity happens to declare. That sounds like a trick question linked to the notion of free will.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 23, 2019 1:45:32 GMT
I doubt there are 3 billion people on this earth who have never heard of Christ. Even if there are 2 people on earth who have never heard of Christ, them being sent to Hell for eternity is indication that God is not just.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 1:52:18 GMT
I doubt there are 3 billion people on this earth who have never heard of Christ. Even if there are 2 people on earth who have never heard of Christ, them being sent to Hell for eternity is indication that God is not just. We know due to recent events that there's a whole island full of people who have never heard of christ. Remember the idiot who got himself killed trying to change that situation? This was what drove the missionary thing, actually. It's unfair that people go to hell when they didn't get the chance to accept christ, so the christian solution was to try and make sure that everyone had that chance. But of course the world was too big for that to work. Hence the idea that "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge." So the claim is that everyone can see there's a god, so if they don't accept him that's their lookout.
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Post by dividavi on Jan 23, 2019 2:01:20 GMT
The Euthyphro dilemma is found in Plato's dialogue Euthyphro, in which Socrates asks Euthyphro, "Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" (10a) It implies that if moral authority must come from the gods it does not have to be good, and if moral authority must be good it does not have to come from the gods – a highly controversial idea at the time Socrates first presented it. Although the argument applied to the many capricious gods of ancient Greece, it has implications for the monotheistic religions of today. "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?" Ever since Plato's original discussion, this question has presented a problem for some theists, though others have thought it a false dilemma, and it continues to be an object of theological and philosophical discussion today.
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Post by Cody™ on Jan 23, 2019 2:07:35 GMT
@graham
Yeah a whole island full of approximately 50-200 people.
And yet little antichrists like you were virtually celebrating his death.
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Post by Cody™ on Jan 23, 2019 2:09:42 GMT
I doubt there are 3 billion people on this earth who have never heard of Christ. Even if there are 2 people on earth who have never heard of Christ, them being sent to Hell for eternity is indication that God is not just. Whats unjust? That they get sent to hell? Or that it’s for eternity? Or both?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 2:28:00 GMT
@graham Yeah a whole island full of approximately 50-200 people. Do you think they go to hell when they die? Well not being a christian, it would be a little odd if I was a supporter of the missionary movement. Oh, and it's funny that you think I'm a little antichrist. That made me smile, so thanks for that!
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 23, 2019 2:56:53 GMT
The question then becomes: do the creations have the ability to independently determine right from wrong, OR is right and wrong solely determined on the basis of whatever the deity happens to declare. That sounds like a trick question linked to the notion of free will. A "trick question" is usually something that is intentionally designed to throw someone else off, or trip them up in some way. To me this is actually an honest question, and a very important one that goes towards establishing whether or not the "believer" actually has a concept of morality that is independent from what their religion teaches, or reliant solely on what the religion teaches. It's also a rather damning question for any Christian, Muslim, or Jew because it puts them in the position of having to explain/defend potentially obvious immoral actions of God as "moral" (which they must in order to claim that God is moral). And that's why you tend to not get very many responses from theists whenever they are asked this question. Because they (well, the smart ones anyway) realize that any answer they give puts them in a very weak and potentially indefensible position on the topic of morality. OT: This is also one of the contributing factors of me becoming an atheist. I realized that I could no longer actually defend "God's morality" when I challenged myself to do so.
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jan 23, 2019 3:51:58 GMT
Put your faith in Jesus or spend eternity in hell What if it turns out that putting your faith in Jesus gets you reincarnated as a colon-dwelling E. coli on the next go-round?
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jan 23, 2019 3:57:40 GMT
See the brighter side, it's not the old days anymore where you face inquisition for not believing (of course that's still happening in some part of the Islamic world). One can leave the religions they don't like in most parts of the world. Slowly and steadily Christianity is changing or drying. At least some sects such as Unitarian Universalists have less shocking teachings and are trying to make their religion somewhat suitable for the majority of secular people. There are no Christians burning witches anymore (unless in some obsolete and rare cases in places where governments are not very strong). The thing is that religion is going to go through a change. Of course, Islam is a concern but Christianity is dying fast in the white world. They somewhat retain their power in the non-white world but I am assuming more economic development in Africa and Asia and South America will also lead to Christianity and eventually Islam dying in other parts of the world too. In some parts of the contemporary world, believing gets you to face the Inquisition. www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/09/china-massive-crackdown-muslim-regionEconomic development isn't necessarily the fix. Economic development isn't the same as enlightenment.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 23, 2019 4:27:55 GMT
Why do theophobiacs ask questions about topics that have everything to do with their assumptions instead of about Christianity?
Betcha there's not an answer for that one is it?
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 23, 2019 4:41:05 GMT
See the brighter side, it's not the old days anymore where you face inquisition for not believing (of course that's still happening in some part of the Islamic world). One can leave the religions they don't like in most parts of the world. Slowly and steadily Christianity is changing or drying. At least some sects such as Unitarian Universalists have less shocking teachings and are trying to make their religion somewhat suitable for the majority of secular people. There are no Christians burning witches anymore (unless in some obsolete and rare cases in places where governments are not very strong). The thing is that religion is going to go through a change. Of course, Islam is a concern but Christianity is dying fast in the white world. They somewhat retain their power in the non-white world but I am assuming more economic development in Africa and Asia and South America will also lead to Christianity and eventually Islam dying in other parts of the world too. In some parts of the contemporary world, believing gets you to face the Inquisition. www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/09/china-massive-crackdown-muslim-regionEconomic development isn't necessarily the fix. Economic development isn't the same as enlightenment. Obviously the economic development isn't always a fix but economic development facilitate conditions that bring about conditions that allow you more freedom on average than conditions of non-economic development do.
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